hi. still reading everything, trying to keep out of your way and taking a break at the same time.
i need to know how to utilise the zodiac pattern drawer so i can take the route chosen and drop it into az decrypt as symbols rather than position numbers(1-340), can anyone alter the programme to accommodate such a request.
cheers.
Hey Mr lowe,
In AZdecrypt open the 340 and the transposition window under functions. Put your position numbers into the output window and click on "Use transposition matrix" in the transposition window and "Transpose" or "Untranspose".
Here’s an example screenshot: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5r0r … 3NHZ2ZkWDA
Another way to look at the pivots is to see them as repeating trigrams of one direction versus another, see codeboxes below.
The 408 has 2 of these "6qE" and "Mu^" when compared to columnar 1. Interestingly the horizontal trigram "6qE" sits in the last row of the 408 and is part of what is believed to be a quadgram that Zodiac pulled down "qEHM". But actually he may have pulled down a slightly different fragment, one that forms a corner (see codebox directly under).
408 rows 6 to 8 hold this pattern: 6 q EHM 408 last row dissected: VEXr9WI "6qEHM" )=UIk
When compared to columnar 3 there is another trigram repeat associated with the last row, it is "=UI", see codebox below that says input versus columnar 3. Possibly, Zodiac copied down 2 vertical trigrams and repeated them horizontally in the last row. Is the same going on with the pivots in the 340?
340:
Input versus columnar 1: 5.88%
------------------------------
L
+
+
R
J
| b
RJ|* .
c
b.cV
L
++
408:
Input versus columnar 1: 2.94%
------------------------------
6
q
E MU^
M
U
^
6qE
408:
Input versus columnar 3: 1.47%
------------------------------
I
U
=
=UI
thnx jarlve i will give it a go..also can you put up a link to your most recent AZdecrypt
Smokie50ABC
Same as smokie49ABC, except that there are +/- 45 symbols.
A
1 2 3 4 5 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 7 4
15 16 17 18 19 13 6 10 4 20 6 21 22 13 2 23 24
25 26 4 2 2 27 20 17 28 29 30 31 16 2 32 33 27
5 27 2 24 4 6 13 22 9 34 8 27 32 5 7 35 29
6 2 26 27 32 20 9 24 29 6 36 9 18 21 4 16 29
15 20 26 19 28 37 24 38 18 27 14 10 19 33 8 7 23
4 6 20 21 29 39 10 34 16 6 23 29 6 37 8 14 4
32 5 24 20 28 26 16 21 7 15 10 27 2 7 29 24 4
8 2 10 5 9 20 32 27 32 16 38 27 32 34 16 14 37
33 27 40 26 4 32 6 27 29 1 4 33 13 5 21 16 9
5 34 6 9 41 20 14 24 29 33 6 32 3 5 9 18 2
29 32 26 5 16 4 26 6 8 20 1 16 32 30 24 40 9
2 29 21 41 34 19 6 39 4 29 14 20 34 7 6 2 26
13 33 6 14 2 32 22 6 29 1 6 24 23 4 15 4 29
33 9 24 3 4 6 9 2 10 20 28 24 40 38 32 8 11
42 29 22 14 21 8 4 7 33 19 10 7 22 1 28 21 35
19 30 16 37 6 14 10 12 23 8 23 42 20 21 15 32 24
36 20 20 24 17 23 4 34 15 4 32 29 7 26 8 17 10
36 7 18 10 23 11 6 7 16 39 31 35 22 26 24 20 29
19 2 6 29 16 7 5 25 19 29 41 30 20 1 27 17 42
B
1 2 3 1 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 12 13 8 14
2 15 16 17 18 19 11 1 20 21 7 2 16 8 1 10 22
23 2 21 14 24 2 25 19 26 27 11 11 28 3 1 11 10
19 2 1 27 21 26 29 11 30 14 6 19 1 31 10 32 21
23 21 33 23 4 17 24 11 34 15 19 33 8 17 1 7 3
35 14 25 36 11 37 16 3 38 15 2 13 19 31 36 10 6
2 15 8 39 36 8 2 14 30 27 38 8 27 3 21 40 5
15 10 23 3 38 22 41 21 2 1 8 11 3 28 15 14 21
37 26 15 14 33 11 17 2 13 39 8 10 1 2 5 8 23
42 5 21 15 23 5 2 31 22 37 24 19 10 21 8 15 3
14 31 7 2 22 10 27 19 6 34 3 8 21 14 15 1 16
5 24 7 10 16 38 35 13 22 5 21 41 7 43 11 8 19
1 36 8 30 3 12 15 16 9 7 37 13 11 36 23 6 1
38 25 5 43 39 2 29 14 21 1 13 24 8 6 23 10 15
21 16 36 11 15 5 23 24 44 10 28 10 13 18 6 8 21
30 24 20 19 29 4 1 15 33 40 5 21 21 18 23 8 22
7 36 41 3 30 20 11 2 6 19 21 15 5 21 13 19 24
30 36 12 26 13 27 11 19 18 42 40 27 38 15 14 16 23
5 7 19 23 6 11 19 21 17 1 11 16 17 3 14 15 21
8 11 3 17 27 17 30 15 31 15 34 11 9 21 11 5 17
C
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 7 9 2 10 11 12 5 13 1
14 2 15 12 7 16 17 18 19 20 4 12 2 12 5 21 6
2 22 23 11 15 9 15 1 13 12 24 8 25 26 27 7 28
10 21 29 30 5 23 20 5 16 1 5 8 31 5 2 14 10
32 29 4 33 11 14 7 5 23 3 20 34 21 11 30 2 2
17 13 17 7 35 11 23 17 22 17 1 29 36 12 20 16 37
38 5 21 6 7 3 11 13 17 12 39 13 40 35 16 16 7
29 11 29 36 23 15 4 31 14 8 13 7 26 13 9 4 2
17 14 6 20 13 11 17 18 36 41 32 42 15 28 22 29 10
30 1 30 5 26 27 16 30 3 37 13 21 2 4 30 12 17
10 10 5 5 7 23 39 10 41 1 39 13 11 7 41 7 40
29 2 15 3 10 20 21 36 14 43 5 2 29 5 36 42 5
12 34 19 2 12 17 26 42 30 27 24 18 6 10 9 15 19
20 16 7 13 17 21 23 5 30 13 2 6 10 30 11 44 39
4 30 22 3 5 14 7 16 24 9 36 11 27 13 44 7 21
23 3 4 19 13 6 38 19 8 14 17 23 13 21 6 12 33
3 4 4 17 1 28 35 4 11 43 41 14 4 14 2 7 4
26 37 10 11 23 21 39 15 5 22 29 13 40 2 17 12 11
11 41 20 42 13 17 26 7 29 35 1 3 27 14 20 11 13
21 21 3 14 16 12 3 19 29 8 30 36 31 10 7 23 5
Smokie51ABC
Same as smokie49ABC and smokie50ABC, except that there are +/- 63 symbols.
A
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 9 11 12 13 9 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 6 27 28 29 30 31
32 33 34 35 36 16 37 38 39 11 40 41 42 43 23 13 44
2 31 4 12 45 46 47 6 38 25 48 17 43 28 49 14 32
1 24 50 37 39 30 51 7 9 18 5 21 52 13 4 36 11
2 17 28 37 39 15 53 18 10 33 31 13 54 7 27 53 12
48 55 56 57 38 42 27 29 44 2 10 5 27 20 33 17 25
50 28 19 39 46 18 9 22 1 31 34 26 51 11 12 35 15
5 49 55 18 29 20 21 31 25 6 31 45 12 56 1 2 5
19 20 13 58 39 9 59 26 54 21 35 39 39 16 33 13 4
37 31 41 12 50 60 23 1 11 20 54 29 25 30 51 26 8
5 35 44 41 13 29 46 24 33 36 31 35 55 25 9 36 61
2 20 47 23 44 34 54 50 17 22 11 39 12 42 51 57 13
21 52 56 39 2 34 45 17 53 14 30 27 49 2 44 23 39
60 38 7 48 58 15 1 30 26 40 35 53 28 5 4 24 9
47 33 62 36 17 46 19 22 31 54 28 34 52 29 39 33 9
5 50 51 10 9 42 16 33 61 9 20 6 27 2 21 54 22
45 44 54 17 35 31 41 43 59 12 63 7 57 37 60 64 14
48 11 50 35 15 6 28 23 19 39 51 2 6 51 17 44 28
13 50 39 18 5 7 2 49 17 34 33 4 16 45 45 7 24
B
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 11
17 18 19 20 21 22 1 23 24 25 26 8 3 27 28 29 21
30 31 32 15 33 34 35 13 26 36 37 38 5 39 9 36 40
23 6 19 41 42 43 44 45 46 8 47 10 15 48 2 33 36
31 44 49 4 41 42 43 22 38 24 50 4 2 51 47 27 3
34 52 47 5 38 46 9 53 28 35 8 37 8 54 48 7 47
18 27 39 6 15 55 31 10 7 33 52 32 35 41 34 13 37
19 56 27 25 8 22 8 23 39 10 7 30 14 15 57 4 50
3 34 54 54 52 13 5 29 8 58 52 20 59 28 36 7 24
51 16 38 33 21 12 7 1 15 26 10 6 39 27 9 60 23
19 40 34 25 55 26 3 26 5 22 56 58 5 23 14 30 59
43 20 61 57 48 3 28 13 17 48 32 6 24 11 22 34 5
15 62 16 45 48 44 55 2 44 43 33 14 9 26 23 50 22
42 15 6 4 34 46 47 15 3 6 37 49 13 7 48 31 53
5 51 1 54 10 57 7 58 61 38 35 52 8 40 19 4 9
61 42 43 47 22 17 59 61 58 11 24 46 48 21 4 62 33
28 32 34 31 35 37 13 11 4 25 18 6 36 47 23 19 27
43 50 53 23 8 38 46 33 55 51 34 22 13 59 5 2 48
15 37 28 54 26 12 21 31 21 41 6 4 14 9 19 8 21
44 37 39 30 20 43 33 26 37 1 34 22 54 46 13 16 2
C
1 2 3 4 5 6 6 7 8 3 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 18 19 20 21 1 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 6 29
30 26 31 8 20 16 3 32 33 34 35 36 34 37 38 8 33
8 39 14 40 41 42 43 9 24 32 44 7 5 11 6 34 20
35 7 45 46 47 7 48 49 50 51 36 11 6 13 39 29 39
52 43 29 33 53 10 9 54 14 18 55 1 4 5 23 41 17
56 5 47 24 49 30 10 31 31 38 45 7 32 33 11 26 19
35 21 57 58 59 50 29 44 56 31 32 60 50 4 53 39 23
51 2 51 26 30 17 59 24 5 20 34 6 28 54 33 45 8
22 61 33 62 34 21 1 21 50 14 27 52 63 27 36 44 9
15 10 22 33 64 43 1 25 3 16 34 60 35 55 56 7 12
57 12 5 63 14 65 27 11 40 37 6 43 36 30 65 64 20
2 45 12 21 9 1 58 56 35 32 40 39 30 4 22 60 53
12 23 26 19 60 31 10 46 3 5 53 35 29 32 33 17 26
50 20 45 59 42 21 48 3 24 56 27 37 34 44 23 52 61
64 39 34 13 31 25 5 41 40 19 20 45 29 55 32 9 57
60 4 13 21 33 32 11 39 54 8 25 32 5 35 33 11 23
15 24 32 50 1 23 20 50 52 10 27 45 12 2 22 39 47
45 4 19 3 5 30 20 42 38 58 26 17 47 6 20 16 35
57 62 60 2 43 55 50 54 12 14 7 36 11 20 13 21 47
thnx jarlve i will give it a go..also can you put up a link to your most recent AZdecrypt
I have updated the AZdecrypt thread with a new version, here’s a direct download: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5r0r … EFKSkF2aDA
Same as smokie49ABC and smokie50ABC, except that there are +/- 63 symbols.
Thanks allot smokie, I’m adding your ciphers to list and will have some feedback upcoming sunday.
Thanks for your efforts as well. I suspect that we may be able to eliminate null columns. If the 340 mirrored was period 14 with a null column, then it would look like period 15. But period 2 would become period 30, not period 29. And if the 340 was period 18 with a null column, then it would look like period 19, and period 2 would become period 38, not period 39. But a lot of strange things happen with route transposition and encoding with 63 symbols.
I have a new heatmap to detect incomplete inscription rectangles. Not that it is necessary, but this is my hobby, so I added one more spreadsheet to my arsenal. It works through positions 1 to 340. For each position, it concatenates the symbols below the position at the suspected offset period and concatenates the symbols above the position at the predominate period. Then it counts the repeats. The count is supposed to increase up to about the position where the inscription rectangle changes shape, then steadily drop off.
Maybe a picture is better. X axis is position, Y axis is count of repeats. The vertical red grid lines represent the columns in the inscription rectangle. It is for detection of incomplete inscription rectangles. It works a lot of the time, but sometimes it doesn’t.
Cool spreadsheet smokie.
Summer’s around the corner and I want to slow down my cipher work for a while. I’ve been playing this addictive browser game: https://space1.io/ pew pew.
Here is week 3 of the transposition solver. There was a bug with the results from week 1 and I have removed these entries. Week 3 was much better than week 2, though, your new ciphers smokie49 to 51 are very hard. Will try to add something different for week 4 to compensate.
Feel free to make a new suite, I would like to see:
12. Three big rectangles. Inscribe into rectangle 1, transcribe into rectangle 2, then transcribe again into rectangle 3.
Format: AZdecrypt score _ index of coincidence times 10000 _ multiplicity times 1000
340:
week 2: 21115_738_185
week 3: 21308_742_185
340_flip(17,20):
week 2: 21088_762_185
week 3: 21072_739_185
340_mirror(17,20):
week 2: 21017_745_185
week 3: 21186_731_185
340_offsetcolumnorder(tp,17,20,1):
week 2: 21030_771_185
week 3: 21396_717_185
340_periodcolumnorder(utp,17,20,2):
week 2: 20914_715_185
week 3: 21189_728_185
340_reverse:
week 2: 20916_732_185
week 3: 21149_715_185
441:
week 2: 20656_685_142
week 3: 20736_692_142
dagapeyeff:
week 3: 17781_917_91
dorabella:
week 2: 23443_708_229
week 3: 23597_708_229
doranchak_route1:
week 2: 21655_738_185
week 3: 21542_732_185
feynman1:
week 2: 21131_757_60
week 3: 21176_757_60
glurk_cc1:
week 2: 25071_656_185
week 3: 25127_656_185
glurk_cc2:
week 2: 24075_733_176
week 3: 24113_733_176
jarlve_cc1:
week 2: 20977_762_185
week 3: 20901_753_185
jarlve_chunksize_easy:
week 2: 20271_780_173
week 3: 20597_747_173
jarlve_chunksize_hard:
week 2: 20707_798_185
week 3: 20984_752_185
jarlve_route1:
week 2: 21188_630_64
week 3: 22161_620_64
jarlve_route2:
week 2: 25223_605_73
week 3: 25237_605_73
jarlve_route3:
week 2: 21566_730_67
week 3: 23736_729_67
jarlve_route4:
week 2: 21416_730_185
week 3: 21498_725_185
jarlve_route5:
week 2: 24895_641_67
week 3: 24914_641_67
kryptos3:
week 2: 25206_667_74
week 3: 25245_663_74
reunion:
week 2: 23804_762_246
week 3: 23804_762_246
smokie9:
week 2: 20987_744_185
week 3: 21115_741_185
smokie10:
week 2: 20649_747_182
week 3: 20877_728_182
smokie11:
week 2: 21910_767_185
week 3: 22064_796_185
smokie12:
week 2: 21195_737_182
week 3: 21363_733_182
smokie13:
week 2: 21432_735_185
week 3: 21558_741_185
smokie14:
week 2: 20796_723_185
week 3: 20924_792_185
smokie15:
week 2: 20918_719_185
week 3: 20964_717_185
smokie23:
week 2: 21797_635_176
week 3: 21985_667_176
smokie38:
week 2: 20884_717_191
week 3: 21066_784_191
smokie39:
week 2: 20931_718_185
week 3: 21043_715_185
smokie39_expand(7):
week 2: 22454_698_252
week 3: 22557_692_252
smokie40:
week 2: 22593_692_61
week 3: 22606_692_61
smokie41:
week 2: 21872_702_67
week 3: 21940_702_67
smokie42:
week 2: 20920_625_67
week 3: 20986_625_67
smokie43a:
week 2: 21966_650_70
week 3: 23372_649_70
smokie43b:
week 2: 22165_649_70
week 3: 22469_662_70
smokie43c:
week 2: 22730_663_67
week 3: 23581_655_67
smokie44a:
week 2: 22669_699_129
week 3: 22936_654_129
smokie44b:
week 2: 21831_754_135
week 3: 23057_732_135
smokie44c:
week 2: 22614_640_132
week 3: 22860_634_132
smokie45a:
week 2: 22119_699_182
week 3: 21705_734_182
smokie45b:
week 2: 21270_703_191
week 3: 22245_639_191
smokie45c:
week 2: 22739_664_188
week 3: 23486_653_188
smokie46a:
week 2: 24099_728_67
week 3: 24054_718_67
smokie46b:
week 2: 23005_684_70
week 3: 24113_675_70
smokie46c:
week 2: 21317_671_70
week 3: 23761_655_70
smokie47a:
week 2: 24149_684_120
week 3: 24006_684_120
smokie47b:
week 2: 19525_761_141
week 3: 19775_795_141
smokie47c:
week 2: 23770_613_123
week 3: 23802_613_123
smokie48a:
week 2: 23801_728_170
week 3: 23463_728_170
smokie48b:
week 2: 20994_724_185
week 3: 21140_741_185
smokie48c:
week 2: 24001_768_176
week 3: 23974_774_176
smokie49a:
week 3: 21145_646_67
smokie49b:
week 3: 19192_691_70
smokie49c:
week 3: 16883_886_73
smokie50a:
week 3: 19087_738_123
smokie50b:
week 3: 19099_784_129
smokie50c:
week 3: 19267_852_129
smokie51a:
week 3: 21875_685_188
smokie51b:
week 3: 21018_732_182
smokie51c:
week 3: 21381_706_191
340, top 2 results:
normal: Score: 21308.75 Ioc: 0.07424 Flip(X:154,Y:3) Period column order(TP,X:247,Y:2,P:13) Period row order(TP,X:22,Y:16,P:10) CCABARNTHEIRUSINE HANDNOEARDSANDIDH EDHISLLBEATEINGER SCORNORTOBUTILLED TOELARUNITANDWITH ENIANTCOLDDOTTHER ESIDDLEATONTHEARO NORESOLOADANDWITO SOANHINORIGHTONOR WILLERSASANENDIND IRECTARDBUTTHISSS UNATESWHOCHERSSIL LLESIDEAACRINGTHE ALOREMITFREASUREE RCHWERSHISTHEMARS HEHARTREMOLIDSHOM EHEIRNOONALOTISTD EISACTSTODRUNONAG ASTOSSOINTENALWRA INITERFORANARUNNC 340_offsetcolumnorder(tp,17,20,1): Score: 21396.46 Ioc: 0.07171 Period column order(UTP,X:156,Y:3,P:19) Diagonal 6(UTP,X:318,Y:2) Offset column order v2(X:157,Y:3,F:1,T:3,O:20) BBPHEREDSANOTSEPR RESCHLITIEDITTHEP LANSAIDHITALDNADI SHOTBOTSINGSHEFRO MHATSCOREPLACINAR ANEHASESANOUTOREO RTSTOPBYTHESACARE NDERNMATERELORDCA REONFITSPONSATERS LITAPPARINCHERIES ACTTHANDOILEDINTH EAREDABILLOBEALEN TSELACADEMATENBRU SSEDMAPONATSTANST ONSTIONSTHEACTICC RISMEDINANDDNRNBY REMELMACHARLYSTON ISASSESSESINGLETS ASURYOFPRICICHLYO NALLATHASTICSCUSL
I agree with slowing down. I am not done yet, but have some other pressing life issues that if I don’t get straightened out I won’t be able to enjoy my cipher work anyway. But I am still working on it a few hours a week.
You have been doing a lot of the heavy lifting lately. Feel free to pace your work as you wish. I like the video game. I played it for a few minutes. This type of cryptography is very difficult. I am amazed that I found someone to work with on a project so difficult for so long. Somebody who I can discuss the message with and often see things the same way. Slowing down and breaks are good.
I will put together a new suite with consecutive complete rectangles, not consecutive incomplete rectangles which would be more difficult, and let you know more details soon.
I am surprised that the column gibberish messages are so difficult. I thought that they would be easy because you could just loop through columns 1 – 17, deleting one at a time, and then untransposing. However, some have full gibberish columns and some have mostly gibberish columns, which would probably be more difficult.
I am disappointed with the 340 results. Lately I have been praying that you would find a solution. I guess my prayers will not be answered today.
In the next codebox I marked all the disruptive elements in your cipher (rows, polyphone and horizontal pivot parts) as number 99 while renumbering the others to 1 and then untransposed period 10. Especially this kind of vertical disruption is very hard for the solver since it can’t find many long uninterrupted sections. There are 61. After expanding these you end up with a cipher multiplicity of 0.361, though it does solve since there’s enough structure left. Interesting scheme, also in regards to the 340. And thanks for sharing the full details. I need to think about it.
1 1 1 1 99 99 1 1 1 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 1 1 1 99 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 99 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 99 1 99 1 1 1 1 99 99 1 99 1 1 1 1 99 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 99 1 1 1 1 1 99 1 1 1 1 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 1 1 1 99 99 99 1 1 1 99 1 1 99 99 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 1 99 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 99 1 1 1 1 1 99 1 1 1 1 99 1 1 99 1 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 1 1 99 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 99 99 1 1 1 1
Regarding smokie39. I am not sure why you are converting to 17 x 20 after untransposing. I like your program because it accommodates different sized rectangles, and put them into the original inscription shape. Yellow is the backwards transcribed rows, and pink is the polyphone. Think about the sliding area idea anyway.
1 11 20 10 33 6 33 8 49 7 41 38 5 42 11 38 28 19 37 27 2 53 42 25 60 7 24 39 55 50 1 41 60 36
2 12 15 17 34 40 9 44 1 52 20 2 52 7 44 49 6 41 49 6 3 13 38 54 61 26 20 63 14 28 38 36 62 28
3 13 21 28 35 2 14 45 4 37 33 7 30 61 15 16 25 57 32 63 6 37 34 4 17 6 51 63 16 25 21 7 32 43
4 14 22 25 20 27 41 41 17 28 55 56 59 11 27 37 13 56 33 20 38 49 7 30 7 12 43 15 42 15 34 57 7 43
5 15 23 29 36 41 42 36 18 6 54 53 39 14 23 31 37 8 35 47 48 25 45 55 21 5 19 15 35 40 7 59 22 1
6 16 24 7 13 12 43 16 24 44 7 9 8 48 2 7 55 62 40 14 35 15 20 42 7 61 4 36 7 41 37 41 27 30
7 17 25 30 20 7 40 40 19 27 50 23 60 21 28 39 15 7 7 57 27 23 63 56 3 9 30 56 18 30 44 11 25 60
8 12 1 4 37 11 25 46 50 34 7 57 20 2 32 44 14 26 7 49 7 37 52 16 20 14 4 21 20 2 32 56 3 40
9 18 26 31 38 5 23 47 21 53 14 58 24 40 29 14 18 27 12 25 15 16 53 59 42 7 25 62 7 38 55 14 23 61
10 19 27 32 39 12 15 48 51 54 13 35 2 7 53 54 32 10 24 30 43 32 58 28 35 8 27 34 44 5 19 20 61 38
I am still slowly working on the message that you made for me some time ago:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 17 26 27 28 3 29 30 13 31
17 5 32 18 28 33 34 35 36 37 26 19 25 30 38 39 6
13 2 4 23 11 32 40 7 36 17 3 8 34 14 30 5 41
42 43 18 28 35 27 13 4 18 38 44 6 45 33 46 12 9
44 25 22 11 47 48 49 2 50 17 30 13 8 39 37 1 9
3 51 9 5 25 33 16 24 3 18 22 40 17 2 52 53 42
30 54 9 26 55 28 22 56 15 5 42 53 35 34 11 18 45
28 35 46 25 4 11 2 33 18 9 57 28 47 12 36 19 32
13 35 21 17 42 27 53 45 18 26 39 38 7 30 28 35 22
6 1 36 31 53 48 3 14 8 58 53 24 37 5 4 23 41
6 11 8 59 25 12 42 16 34 14 39 18 13 52 45 28 32
35 2 39 17 36 24 35 60 41 12 36 37 53 15 55 16 51
3 28 9 35 53 33 53 39 43 4 42 40 21 42 53 36 26
33 30 54 27 34 6 5 45 25 3 11 13 17 14 39 51 18
26 23 61 62 33 63 44 33 22 41 22 38 8 57 28 35 53
10 2 1 12 42 24 36 34 9 5 28 16 45 32 39 12 30
38 25 35 15 36 54 51 3 13 39 62 22 36 42 45 33 53
1 5 61 2 24 26 25 33 39 4 26 3 34 6 8 61 54
13 11 18 12 37 35 39 19 9 22 53 27 4 2 5 25 31
Something very strange is happening. I am untransposing at period 15, and keep getting the words "THEN YOU HEAR THAT" and "TERRIBLE HIGH PIT". I also see the word "SOUND" sometimes. But this is what is strange. Different groups of symbols are creating these words. It is not always the same symbols ( highlighted yellow ).
I am mystified by this. It must not be a partial solution. Or maybe I am doing something wrong. I am not asking for an explanation or for you to look into it. Just wondering if you know off the top of your head what may be going on.
I have had a couple of ideas for new spreadsheets and explorations. I really need to make a new spreadsheet where I can paste any size or shaped message, and check for bigram repeats. Currently I can paste a 17 x 20, and convert to whatever shape, and then check for repeats, but not paste any size message. That may help me to evaluate transcription direction better, among other issues.
One other rough idea that I had last night. A sliding area approach to searching for repeats. Look for relative spikes in different areas to try to find evidence of multiple transcription rectangles or areas or similarities between adjacent areas, etc. There so seem to be regional biases with some of the periods, so wondering about that, and if something interesting would pop up with this examination.
I shall make your messages soon.
You have been doing a lot of the heavy lifting lately. Feel free to pace your work as you wish. I like the video game. I played it for a few minutes. This type of cryptography is very difficult. I am amazed that I found someone to work with on a project so difficult for so long. Somebody who I can discuss the message with and often see things the same way. Slowing down and breaks are good.
It’s quite alright, and my lifestyle is such that I can afford it. In a specific way, we both are as tough as nails. We don’t let go of a problem until it is solved or well understood.
I will put together a new suite with consecutive complete rectangles, not consecutive incomplete rectangles which would be more difficult, and let you know more details soon.
That’s a nice distincition.
I am surprised that the column gibberish messages are so difficult. I thought that they would be easy because you could just loop through columns 1 – 17, deleting one at a time, and then untransposing. However, some have full gibberish columns and some have mostly gibberish columns, which would probably be more difficult.
The transposition solver does not loop through anything and all runs so far have been without a null operator. I want to see what is possible without a null operator first because it complicates things allot.
I am disappointed with the 340 results. Lately I have been praying that you would find a solution. I guess my prayers will not be answered today.
A solution would be nice but generally I think it is more important to explore the transposition hypothesis to a reasonable degree (within the period 15/19 observation). If we could do that, I could leave the 340 in peace. And realistically, I believe much more is just not possible for our scope.
Something very strange is happening. I am untransposing at period 15, and keep getting the words "THEN YOU HEAR THAT" and "TERRIBLE HIGH PIT". I also see the word "SOUND" sometimes. But this is what is strange. Different groups of symbols are creating these words. It is not always the same symbols ( highlighted yellow ).
In your last diagram, on the left, column 23 has numbers in it but on the right side it does not, perhaps you have a problem somewhere. These segments do appear in the plaintext, but only once, you are on the right track. I have tested the cipher and it untransposes perfectly.
One other rough idea that I had last night. A sliding area approach to searching for repeats. Look for relative spikes in different areas to try to find evidence of multiple transcription rectangles or areas or similarities between adjacent areas, etc. There so seem to be regional biases with some of the periods, so wondering about that, and if something interesting would pop up with this examination.
Could do.
Smokie52ABC-54ABC all have three rectangles. Inscribe into rectangle 1, transcribe into rectangle 2, then read off the symbols in rectangle 2 and transcribe into rectangle 3. There are really only two different schemes. With both, rectangle 1 and rectangle 2 have the exact same dimensions. For one scheme it just so happens that transcribing into rectangle 3 makes period 2 look like period 15 / 19, and for the other scheme it just so happens that transcribing into rectangle 3 makes period 3 look like period 15 / 19. But then with mirroring, flipping, and flipping and mirroring, there are eight matrixes to choose from. I am going to tinker around a little bit more with smokie54ABC before posting. EDIT: With all messages, one corner, or maybe even one entire row and a small part of the next row at either the top or bottom are gibberish.
Smokie52 ( sorry, no spike at objective period with A and C; sometimes difficult with 1:1 substitutes )
A
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 8 2 5 9 10 1 5 11 1
12 13 14 14 10 5 15 5 1 16 16 7 8 1 14 11 11
1 5 7 9 10 12 14 5 11 11 17 8 5 9 18 4 10
5 14 14 16 2 4 9 16 5 12 19 11 20 10 10 1 21
9 16 17 21 1 6 6 5 1 5 14 14 11 20 3 4 11
6 8 11 5 4 13 11 6 8 22 21 7 14 17 21 13 4
9 8 2 11 10 19 4 14 5 17 17 8 9 11 14 11 6
17 21 7 10 12 17 1 3 20 7 8 5 6 19 10 14 16
7 7 22 13 19 17 2 19 16 21 1 14 22 7 14 14 5
14 11 1 9 21 5 5 10 7 23 7 11 9 4 16 14 21
8 10 7 11 16 6 10 6 9 17 17 14 9 10 9 21 8
14 10 9 7 1 22 19 7 9 14 5 17 13 10 10 16 6
1 16 12 5 8 1 5 21 5 5 7 17 14 1 10 10 6
5 11 17 9 8 16 16 19 11 19 9 1 10 22 5 11 16
1 11 14 14 5 5 9 16 10 5 14 12 20 5 2 1 14
17 2 19 16 9 20 5 8 10 11 5 14 5 2 4 2 19
14 9 10 10 8 10 10 5 2 14 2 10 2 10 8 23 10
19 5 20 8 5 11 8 5 5 14 14 17 16 7 2 1 10
2 5 11 10 5 19 16 4 7 9 5 5 9 2 10 5 16
6 7 10 9 5 20 13 5 14 23 16 16 5 14 4 17 1
B
1 2 1 3 4 5 6 3 7 8 2 7 9 10 11 10 1
12 13 5 2 14 3 8 10 15 3 4 2 12 10 14 8 3
1 16 5 17 10 18 18 5 2 18 14 3 7 8 3 14 19
1 7 13 17 3 1 9 3 8 8 14 3 3 3 3 14 2
3 20 13 21 7 5 5 6 14 3 9 3 7 14 1 22 2
9 20 3 10 9 23 2 3 10 5 20 9 8 14 3 13 5
10 14 9 14 8 22 8 7 15 9 5 3 12 10 5 19 9
22 9 8 21 9 7 13 14 3 19 3 2 23 8 19 12 5
3 3 8 4 6 7 8 7 10 9 12 13 17 22 2 15 3
3 2 8 3 10 3 2 7 3 12 10 5 19 8 12 14 9
8 22 24 17 13 5 3 9 7 11 2 14 8 17 12 3 11
13 1 8 5 9 24 5 13 24 8 10 8 2 2 3 10 2
7 12 8 5 15 9 10 12 10 12 7 18 24 1 11 13 13
7 12 15 12 13 4 1 5 19 3 14 3 3 13 6 14 13
9 12 7 5 21 3 3 10 8 3 1 15 10 24 19 5 14
7 3 5 4 13 17 14 6 10 2 1 14 22 11 3 20 8
11 15 3 14 3 8 10 7 12 8 5 11 1 14 10 3 13
12 10 10 10 8 2 8 14 13 15 1 3 3 3 3 5 8
8 14 7 12 10 22 8 20 12 4 24 10 6 10 8 12 3
6 4 8 18 3 17 2 5 14 2 14 3 14 12 9 3 8
C
1 2 3 4 5 6 3 7 8 9 1 10 11 1 10 12 10
3 9 1 13 14 3 15 9 1 1 16 17 12 17 13 10 18
9 6 6 4 9 15 19 1 1 12 12 20 12 10 18 5 3
13 10 2 9 6 12 19 10 5 9 1 5 9 5 6 6 15
19 13 1 18 1 6 5 1 18 3 18 6 12 2 1 1 17
3 10 21 5 4 16 8 8 18 3 18 5 9 5 20 5 8
21 8 13 18 3 2 17 1 1 6 20 3 17 7 7 1 5
3 17 10 18 3 13 4 3 17 3 9 7 3 5 10 1 10
9 20 7 7 13 13 7 3 10 8 18 5 3 21 10 3 4
5 7 20 11 3 3 1 19 4 1 19 1 21 7 3 4 17
20 5 2 10 10 6 7 3 12 3 17 5 14 8 17 2 10
18 3 5 5 9 19 10 9 21 16 13 5 21 6 6 8 10
4 6 20 13 22 4 13 9 13 20 9 3 3 18 3 9 3
3 2 3 6 21 9 5 1 1 10 5 6 9 6 14 3 6
14 18 3 10 10 3 2 2 10 9 18 13 6 15 6 8 8
13 10 13 10 21 7 3 18 16 5 5 6 5 3 3 3 16
3 6 10 18 18 5 20 7 18 1 3 8 10 6 5 10 3
18 8 17 10 10 8 17 10 4 15 3 8 9 3 10 20 13
3 17 13 1 13 2 5 18 7 4 10 10 9 5 21 6 5
12 3 10 17 19 7 1 8 17 9 4 5 3 5 9 10 10
Smokie53
A
1 2 3 4 5 2 6 7 8 1 9 10 11 7 1 11 12
13 8 10 14 13 1 7 6 13 5 6 11 15 16 17 18 19
20 9 11 21 12 22 1 3 15 23 24 25 3 1 3 20 26
3 13 27 20 8 24 19 9 28 29 5 17 23 19 29 30 16
24 31 32 11 6 2 20 15 6 4 33 5 34 7 14 11 23
4 9 26 8 12 35 29 8 19 15 10 11 22 11 1 7 14
20 25 10 36 4 23 1 13 25 3 8 37 11 8 9 6 1
7 19 32 11 27 17 8 2 21 1 26 25 3 10 16 1 9
10 15 13 37 20 12 31 34 38 19 25 14 25 1 4 39 38
10 24 21 40 15 1 19 40 7 25 41 16 6 8 14 27 11
8 29 8 31 6 37 32 6 15 23 10 29 15 13 16 15 1
39 20 7 36 5 42 10 4 1 7 37 11 11 31 25 7 40
17 27 30 3 4 25 35 7 8 15 10 15 1 28 13 6 11
22 19 15 8 19 19 40 13 8 29 9 20 24 13 10 8 19
11 14 15 2 21 1 38 43 12 1 1 23 7 13 40 31 1
11 24 4 32 27 26 37 9 5 11 20 10 17 12 8 28 39
15 10 40 40 13 3 14 6 20 16 9 21 18 40 1 8 15
11 13 8 2 9 20 14 5 37 7 32 3 35 17 41 10 18
13 43 8 19 24 23 1 40 28 25 30 9 19 20 11 21 9
15 5 14 41 7 26 19 20 44 11 13 30 35 9 43 19 7
B
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 5 16
17 18 19 20 21 10 14 22 3 17 23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30 31 30 32 17 33 22 8 15 18 34 35 24 36 37 38 3
39 13 23 40 2 32 25 6 41 3 42 5 37 10 40 37 37
14 5 10 16 14 28 11 20 6 16 6 7 43 44 19 41 30
31 12 45 7 4 46 13 34 35 19 26 23 15 7 27 37 7
20 6 15 25 47 48 13 26 37 18 42 49 32 22 5 3 43
23 17 20 16 19 3 28 50 31 10 10 5 7 5 14 3 12
6 19 1 5 8 4 3 21 25 29 13 10 18 14 5 35 24
2 23 9 51 22 10 14 43 48 31 12 5 39 5 36 14 30
10 40 7 10 25 16 49 19 45 1 13 14 5 19 11 26 30
28 29 22 10 14 21 25 6 7 25 4 18 4 52 49 37 35
30 27 5 12 22 49 13 1 10 45 19 2 23 21 14 20 41
29 51 17 46 5 18 18 12 31 38 47 10 23 8 48 43 10
12 13 13 12 25 5 33 42 49 26 10 13 37 49 20 25 24
14 25 14 10 14 44 17 14 26 30 10 18 1 12 7 15 14
43 8 30 19 31 12 35 5 10 16 22 14 13 53 5 1 2
29 49 40 4 20 37 26 7 8 23 51 5 17 14 43 5 18
10 19 42 52 19 48 25 51 5 45 11 28 33 13 7 41 49
2 19 6 16 13 9 31 16 7 29 25 11 6 13 23 5 38
C
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 4 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 1 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 3 12 30
1 31 32 7 33 34 16 4 22 35 36 35 37 21 3 38 39
40 16 16 2 9 41 22 10 42 18 43 27 23 4 14 44 15
26 11 12 25 8 45 7 1 32 34 6 33 2 28 37 39 3
14 46 40 27 15 44 29 12 46 1 5 33 10 35 23 4 25
36 7 41 5 8 47 35 19 4 48 31 21 40 27 20 15 5
15 3 11 21 12 46 31 29 18 31 18 39 41 32 45 28 2
18 49 14 1 17 8 32 6 21 19 26 9 35 1 48 7 20
33 10 40 12 28 1 14 45 14 3 12 29 4 34 31 1 3
12 15 32 9 25 6 8 24 11 8 50 35 27 37 19 21 7
29 10 1 31 45 13 22 9 33 17 35 15 34 51 48 6 25
52 23 2 11 40 26 39 16 44 22 20 19 4 30 5 1 25
15 46 43 12 1 25 14 26 23 16 26 3 32 38 45 12 36
8 10 3 6 30 3 11 15 38 18 2 42 19 27 46 45 28
15 35 46 25 52 49 6 29 19 12 1 3 1 45 36 22 33
21 6 51 4 5 14 1 26 31 16 30 26 48 50 32 16 5
4 40 33 7 24 9 38 3 29 22 48 18 24 12 23 5 14
32 15 35 1 38 47 16 4 29 22 5 35 26 3 4 9 12
29 5 41 30 1 49 33 32 19 31 35 25 9 19 21 10 2
Smokie54
A
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 1 20 15 13 21 2 11 22 23 5 24 25 26 27 9
28 13 29 24 30 31 32 33 34 35 34 5 36 37 14 14 37
5 38 36 7 39 14 40 13 11 2 41 30 4 17 27 42 31
43 44 36 45 29 6 45 46 42 47 48 20 25 49 34 24 27
25 35 45 50 16 18 24 32 51 52 7 53 5 29 3 14 7
54 47 41 22 31 55 10 56 51 14 57 42 26 28 10 50 58
49 8 7 43 45 4 7 2 11 44 29 54 45 27 13 36 9
17 31 5 59 43 37 58 58 60 21 35 51 44 28 5 36 7
16 25 43 28 53 5 13 11 28 6 24 61 19 7 2 40 51
2 1 55 23 42 20 27 12 3 62 21 17 5 39 3 5 33
47 28 49 7 26 57 13 50 30 21 24 7 48 9 51 8 15
44 9 44 46 19 46 33 63 10 25 62 3 63 45 17 16 47
13 20 48 49 29 22 32 23 34 9 38 24 4 54 26 33 58
28 18 27 10 7 13 41 52 8 30 11 12 37 17 50 34 54
48 4 27 62 5 21 38 47 42 46 2 51 22 48 49 45 60
61 8 23 29 60 41 21 34 14 51 40 33 16 60 26 44 24
17 6 36 34 62 50 20 42 45 58 25 5 19 26 29 47 61
49 30 8 45 12 61 8 7 48 64 40 19 3 1 24 37 19
24 13 42 17 2 38 1 4 47 44 21 13 36 49 43 24 5
B
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 9 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 1 23 10 24 25 26 27 17 28 29 30
2 5 31 16 8 32 33 34 35 21 36 4 37 38 20 22 39
20 40 7 18 10 41 42 32 26 27 22 43 11 44 21 16 5
45 26 46 6 47 6 21 48 7 27 17 49 50 30 9 3 1
37 32 51 42 26 52 38 53 23 53 34 5 22 2 24 14 4
12 26 31 19 11 54 8 10 6 1 31 20 4 9 33 18 16
36 24 5 35 22 50 55 28 30 38 31 1 8 56 38 25 21
43 11 8 39 9 15 57 18 24 28 50 44 22 58 26 56 1
49 12 31 53 17 21 33 18 24 41 15 37 48 16 59 10 30
35 10 28 25 31 42 3 50 8 16 22 39 9 21 16 4 1
3 40 44 46 43 9 60 6 47 12 8 13 59 11 46 46 34
7 18 58 9 30 53 61 37 11 56 38 15 32 30 14 55 6
32 19 36 24 48 3 40 34 50 47 34 17 40 12 21 19 32
53 34 41 10 5 22 20 26 29 27 48 55 36 40 8 28 47
35 25 16 19 54 51 38 34 42 60 30 31 3 52 27 21 18
61 46 27 21 26 24 2 28 8 16 58 31 30 39 26 21 39
35 4 47 4 59 19 30 6 36 1 8 4 4 57 48 53 34
16 33 27 36 19 54 35 38 19 39 21 57 22 36 56 6 5
19 26 53 33 15 23 35 44 34 18 42 47 50 11 46 34 17
C
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 3 13 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 7 12
16 13 29 1 31 32 22 33 24 10 26 28 8 34 35 9 21
16 36 37 18 25 12 6 38 39 20 34 1 23 30 9 26 40
40 14 41 42 15 28 5 16 43 21 44 19 45 46 2 6 7
26 8 47 15 21 44 10 47 12 48 31 13 33 18 34 25 5
35 21 23 39 2 48 10 8 7 41 13 49 2 42 37 48 36
34 14 11 21 30 38 42 12 19 2 26 45 28 50 1 33 1
16 42 27 11 25 36 29 39 46 6 36 33 48 8 8 26 22
23 1 51 30 29 3 34 42 40 36 10 21 8 52 9 2 16
5 14 5 15 44 28 25 46 51 53 54 19 19 5 37 24 3
17 7 40 30 39 55 49 42 31 13 29 25 56 8 34 35 20
55 11 22 24 32 23 10 21 41 9 2 9 53 25 33 14 39
1 19 37 3 38 45 27 30 31 12 20 22 17 51 49 10 34
53 53 29 27 21 2 39 16 35 31 45 1 10 3 10 10 6
24 14 15 57 23 52 12 8 18 36 7 28 57 19 11 21 42
46 21 4 38 13 27 53 6 27 2 25 22 15 48 8 1 36
14 31 9 57 16 11 25 38 39 33 4 20 23 19 26 38 20
2 8 18 21 58 50 24 28 21 1 7 22 35 23 41 27 21
9 13 35 1 25 57 27 3 34 33 15 42 32 39 27 38 41
Thank you smokie.
Jarlve, I am feeling reinvigorated with a semi new idea and may have found something about the 340 quite interesting. I am about to finish out the work week, need to do several more hours to do more homework, and then I will post within the next few days.
