Jarlve. sorry but i think my translation was lost, What i wanted to see with the 408 heat map was the last row filler being moved and highlighted at row 14. It should not produce any new symbols. (its the same code reorganised)
swap the last row of the 408 with row 14 of the 408 to see if the heat map showed something similar at row 14. more of a test than anything.
PS for the 408 you can swap the last row with any row but 14 seems like as good a row as any.

Again do the same with the 340. a straight swap. row14>20 row20>14 What i`m looking for is a way that the 340 ends up with a "possible" filler at row 14.
cheers.

That was a good idea Mr lowe: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5r0r … GhTbkNpdDQ

In the 408 the map now hilights row 14 but in the 340 this does not happen as much. I think this could mean that row 14 in the 340 is not filler such as the last row of the 408.

largo check out the heat maps when they were swapped 14>20 20>14

z340 flipped left to right:

Removed row  1 -> Highest bigram count: 38 at period 15
Removed row  2 -> Highest bigram count: 34 at period 15
Removed row  3 -> Highest bigram count: 38 at period 15
Removed row  4 -> Highest bigram count: 35 at period 15
Removed row  5 -> Highest bigram count: 34 at period 15
Removed row  6 -> Highest bigram count: 36 at period 15
Removed row  7 -> Highest bigram count: 35 at period 15
Removed row  8 -> Highest bigram count: 32 at period 261 (28 at period 15)
Removed row  9 -> Highest bigram count: 32 at period 29  (30 at period 15)
Removed row 10 -> Highest bigram count: 34 at period 15
Removed row 11 -> Highest bigram count: 34 at period 15
Removed row 12 -> Highest bigram count: 33 at period 15
Removed row 13 -> Highest bigram count: 32 at period 15
Removed row 14 -> Highest bigram count: 34 at period 261 (33 at period 15)
Removed row 15 -> Highest bigram count: 38 at period 15
Removed row 16 -> Highest bigram count: 33 at period 15
Removed row 17 -> Highest bigram count: 32 at period 15
Removed row 18 -> Highest bigram count: 35 at period 15
Removed row 19 -> Highest bigram count: 36 at period 15
Removed row 20 -> Highest bigram count: 37 at period 15

Removing row 14 has a big impact on the bigram counts at p15/p19. If it is removed, the amount of bigrams is decreased significantly. To me it seems that row 14 is important for the cipher and it is no filler.
Row 8 looks interesting, decreasing bigram count a lot.
What do you think?

I think it is interesting that removing both rows 8 and 14, about equally spaced from the top and bottom of the message, each causes a spike at period 261, which is 15 rows + 6 positions. But not as much when rows between rows 8 and 14 are removed.

Hi,

long time no see =)

I am very busy at the moment and so I have not much time for z340. Nevertheless I still read this forum to be up to date. Jarlve, I really like the new features in AZDecrypt, nice work!

When I read about the strange behavior of row 14 I asked myself: "How is this related to the bigram peaks at p15/p19"? So I ran a test and checked how many bigrams would be found if row x was removed and period n was applied (first removed the row, then applied period n) Here are are the results:

Removing row 14 has a big impact on the bigram counts at p15/p19. If it is removed, the amount of bigrams is decreased significantly. To me it seems that row 14 is important for the cipher and it is no filler.
Row 8 looks interesting, decreasing bigram count a lot.
What do you think?

Thanks Largo,

Nice of you to drop in again. I stayed one week in Duisburg for work a few months ago, the food was really cheap!

I came to the same conclusion, within the period 19 hypothesis row 14 is unlikely to be filler. Also, Mr lowe had a nice idea, if the row is filler then it should most likely also show as random when swapped with other rows. Row 14 kinda failed that test but row 24 in the 408 did not.

I updated my null heatmap to slide through the message with any count of nulls, mark where actual nulls are in test messages, or where suspected nulls are in the 340, and automatically highlight the distortion area around marked positions at the tested period with blue borders and characters instead of black. There is a column chart also, and little red lines below the x axis at the marked null locations.

Below is the 340 LRTB, slide through deleting 3 symbols period 38. Repeats max out at one position in row 11, nine positions in row 13, and the exact three positions in row 14 where the pivot symbols are.

What happens if I check at period 39? Repeats bottom out at the two positions just to the left of the three pivot symbols on row 12, and there is a trough on the column chart at the area between the pivots. Scroll right to see trough.

Here is the 340 LRTB bigram repeats.

And then after deleting the three pivot symbols on row 14. The spike shifts from P39 to P38 with barely any effect on P19. The column charts look almost identical.

Z340 LRTB, if I want to delete 4 nulls and maximize period 38, the spike is exactly on row 14 where the pivot is. Scroll right to see the spike.

If I slide through deleting 5 symbols, then the column chart levels out a lot and no spike at the row 14 pivot symbols.

So, if I want to delete a chunk of horizontal nulls to maximize the period 38 repeats and lower the period 39 repeats, then I can take out 3 symbols in a few areas, including the 3 pivot symbols in row 14. Or, to get maximum effect, I can take out 4 pivot symbols in row 14, including the axis. But if I take out 5 symbols anywhere, no.

Interesting findings smokie,

Try this one please.

1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 11 7  12 13 14 15 16
9  17 18 19 20 21 10 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 7  11 29
30 27 31 32 12 9  33 29 34 12 4  35 36 13 30 27 31
37 10 38 29 3  37 5  16 8  39 40 14 29 12 29 15 20
23 24 33 41 42 40 9  20 43 12 36 44 13 3  45 24 25
27 46 11 10 21 12 47 24 34 33 30 40 36 19 48 20 49
50 2  28 34 2  26 43 47 44 35 12 37 17 51 11 7  10
15 9  45 16 24 27 7  46 9  52 7  6  19 8  1  29 34
50 32 28 23 51 53 31 30 50 29 54 14 55 3  52 27 6
11 19 56 57 31 12 29 28 58 38 10 12 50 29 33 30 52
25 11 26 13 8  4  12 16 40 31 36 2  13 50 10 29 59
12 18 60 9  30 28 16 61 22 52 11 27 62 42 21 29 37
10 56 1  13 46 27 12 29 39 34 43 4  58 57 38 11 29
19 31 5  20 35 14 10 10 51 13 62 58 11 23 30 7  18
48 51 51 25 49 50 10 28 37 45 12 32 2  27 26 11 30
54 12 29 27 21 57 59 37 52 24 47 9  20 1  16 45 4
2  12 31 51 6  29 12 30 10 16 11 23 10 12 35 14 2
63 18 7  50 21 44 29 46 15 11 26 24 55 2  8  9  17
17 19 28 12 35 33 34 10 32 17 29 52 46 26 36 37 7
11 5  5  9  14 48 27 40 1  10 45 7  25 49 4  6  47

Thanks for the message. If I want to max out P19 and slide delete 2 nulls, here are the locations. The spreadsheet automatically shows the distortion zones around the pivots at P19 with blue font and border, but the heavy blue lines I added with MSPaint.

To max P19 and slide delete 3 nulls, red is first place, brown a close second.

To max P19 and slide delete 4 nulls.

P38 slide delete 3 nulls.

P38 slide delete 4 nulls, red 1st place, brown 2nd place, purple 3rd place.

There may be something going on in row 4 above the left pivot as well. I want to make a spreadsheet that slides vertically, and started working on it. Probably during the course of this week I will get it done.

The horizontal pivot part in my cipher were added by me and your slide does generally find them. How does p19 look for the 340?

One null. Row 18, which was really hot on your cycle heatmap.

Two nulls. Rows 3 & 4.

Three nulls. Rows 3, 4 and 15.

The spot at column 8 row 6 just above the left pivot is interesting too.

Four nulls. Column chart levels out.

Five nulls. There is that spot again just above the left pivot, column 8 row 6.

Six nulls.

So nothing special with P19 I guess. I don’t know. I made some test messages. Sometimes the heatmap works and sometimes it doesn’t. I found that if I check at multiples of P, P * 2, P * 3, P * 4, it helps to confirm a spot, sometimes more dramatically with the higher the multiple.

I think that the 340 has some nulls and the pivots may give us a road map to them. Your heat maps come to mind, vertical and horizontal hot columns and rows.

Thanks,

I found that if I check at multiples of P, P * 2, P * 3, P * 4, it helps to confirm a spot, sometimes more dramatically with the higher the multiple.

Yes, a good idea.

Could you look at p19, 38 and 39 for this cipher please.

1  2  3  4  5  6  3  7  8  9  10 11 12 13 14 15 16
6  17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 19 21 30
8  31 32 33 34 35 16 36 37 6  38 6  4  7  8  39 40
41 19 9  21 5  12 9  13 42 43 16 41 1  44 28 45 25
46 26 37 47 19 6  48 49 27 3  12 23 24 14 18 40 13
4  28 30 21 16 26 47 8  21 10 11 41 32 6  43 6  19
27 17 50 4  51 10 38 15 52 11 12 21 33 53 39 18 31
48 21 17 8  7  25 13 20 38 16 22 19 36 11 5  3  31
26 21 41 30 27 21 42 47 4  6  8  23 43 21 39 17 54
55 27 7  12 38 22 21 11 13 4  41 17 22 16 38 21 41
1  8  24 23 11 56 55 19 16 29 35 22 38 33 57 15 58
1  27 49 21 47 11 19 10 5  51 59 3  43 37 29 8  60
41 1  24 59 48 17 26 38 6  31 22 30 12 11 20 61 13
16 34 54 48 41 13 14 29 47 38 43 12 28 50 22 40 16
55 36 10 1  57 23 27 56 29 6  19 12 33 27 19 10 42
18 13 16 60 62 24 27 23 41 43 34 49 22 15 3  52 7
25 26 30 17 41 21 47 24 59 1  62 31 48 10 58 6  59
21 12 38 4  50 11 8  52 13 16 12 32 39 51 22 21 13
17 63 38 28 23 41 50 16 2  5  15 21 21 28 24 56 19
22 11 44 61 62 27 60 46 17 23 4  59 6  17 20 21 3