Luke68, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:30 am

OK, don’t know if this is anything but it looks like the letters AETT also repeat. And before each repetition there are 5 similar (not exactly the same – well the first 3 are the same) letters in reverse:

S L H I E A E T T

T O H L S A E T T

Furthermore, we have the Norse connection here as well:

"In runology, an ætt is one of the three groups of eight runes of the Elder Futhark"

And also another reference to Fibonacci numbers.

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:55 pm

OK, don’t know if this is anything but it looks like the letters AETT also repeat. And before each repetition there are 5 similar (not exactly the same – well the first 3 are the same) letters in reverse:

S L H I E A E T T

T O H L S A E T T

..

This is the case only when you decide to give the encoded N a T value and not an E value.

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:55 pm

..

Furthermore, we have the Norse connection here as well:

"In runology, an ætt is one of the three groups of eight runes of the Elder Futhark"

..

I like this.

-Nin

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:13 pm

..

Furthermore, we have the Norse connection here as well (red mine):

"In runology, an ætt is one of the three groups of eight runes of the Elder Futhark"

..

I like this.

-Nin

POLISH (something)THING ?

Luke68 found the AETT reference. There is a scrambled AETT in the middle part of the "sandwich":

TTEEINAT

THING reference (red mine):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_clans

The Scandinavian clan or ætt (pronounced [ˈæːtː] in Old Norse) was a social group based on common descent or on the formal acceptance into the group at a þing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thing_(assembly )

A thing (Old Norse, Old English and Icelandic: þing; Dutch ding; other modern Scandinavian languages: ting) was the governing assembly in Germanic and introduced into some Celtic societies, made up of the free people of the community and presided by lawspeakers, meeting in a place called a thingstead.

Seagull, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:09 pm

Well the card that the 340 arrived in said on the inside, and can’t do a THING with it! as well as having THING written boldly with all those underlinings and exclamation points, six of each.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:15 pm

Well the card that the 340 arrived in said on the inside, and can’t do a THING with it! as well as having THING written boldly with all those underlinings and exclamation points, six of each.

Yes..it sure seemed he was trying to tell "us" something about "thing".

Seagull, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:17 pm

I have an old dictionary, 1936, in three volumes. It has plenty of obscure and out dated words.

Thing, in the context that NIN has posted has this definition-

In Scandinavian countries, a public meeting or assembly, esp. a legislative assembly or a court of law.

Luke68, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:40 pm

In Polish a ‘thing’ (using the ancient meaning) is a ‘wiec’. Therefore my name is a Polish (something) thing = (something) wiec? Just a possibility

morf13, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:07 pm

You can use this site http://www.poltran.com/odp.php4?q=2&dir … word=thing to transfer words back and forth from polish to english.

morf13, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:20 pm

Since Z was a movie buff, and seemed to be bringing attention to the word, THING, what if he was giving a clue that his last name matched one of the cast member’s , or character’s names in Howard Hawks’ movie, THE THING?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044121/

morf13, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:30 pm

Well the card that the 340 arrived in said on the inside, and can’t do a THING with it! as well as having THING written boldly with all those underlinings and exclamation points, six of each.

Yes..it sure seemed he was trying to tell "us" something about "thing".

Good post Tahoe. Also, if you remember, there was a letter in the FBI files from someone in Iva, SC, . A person claiming to have een the Zodiac letter in the newspaper story near him in Iva, wrote to Vallejo PD, and mentioned he had been stationed in Germany once. He stated that he saw the word DES as written by Zodiac, and thought it could mean something (I forget what he thought it meant). But I just looked up the word DES in german and it means ‘of the’. So I wonder if the word DES in addition to the word THING, could be clues.

Sorry of those goes a bit off topic from the actual code itself.

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:36 pm

Okay, let’s do a recap to what we did and where we are right now:

1.We eliminated all non ASCII characters from the 340 and encoded them via 408 cipher key. The C has a zero value. The N is the only letter that according to the 408 key encodes to a multiple value of E or T.

2.We noticed a 5 letter string, OTSEL, in line17 that repeats itself one time in line 18 and 19, OTSEL……..OTSEL

3.The repeated 5 letter string "sandwiches" in 8 letters, TTEEINAT. So we see:
OTSELTTEEINATOTSEL

So far these are the objective observations.

I recall that I did encode the 340 ASCII previously. However, I suspect I must have made some mistakes, as I have never spotted the 5 letter string before. Some will admit that it is not so easy to spot as the first letter of the second repetition is located at the end of the previous line.
You also noticed that we made some secondary mistakes, whether they were of technical nature or mistakes. This is why I went public with my find. It is very important to exclude any mistake on the way and to be able to duplicate the effort.
I mentioned before that I kept the comment "simple and elegant" in my mind when attemting a second approach to encode the 340 via 408 key. Fortunately I did not mess up the lines where the 5 letter strings are located, so they jumped out at me right away. I did not expect to find anything like it. Even less, considering that the encoding with the 408 key gives the N a double value, so that you may have to choose the value at hand. Well, the 5 letter strings or the inner part do not contain an encoded letter N ( in the plaintext), so we have an objective find.

Now, a comparison with the 13 letter cipher, also known as MYNAMEIS cipher, shows some common properties like visual symmetry, mathematical balance ( 5 symbols/ 8 letters in the MYNAMEIS cipher versus 5/5 letters of the "sandwich" part [OTSEL] and 8 letters of the "inner" part [TTEEINAT]; mathematical proportion 2-3-5-8-13 [21 would be next f.y.a.]

What we are trying to find out in a straight forward manner is what all that means or if it means anything. My next step was to isolate the two outer "sandwich" parts, OTSEL, from the inner part , TTEEINAT.

Looking at OTSEL, trying to decipher a word like that is absolutely impossible, unless somebody tells you, hey, that stands for blabla or blablabla or bla or b and so on, you get the point. Same goes for the middle part or combined outer parts or combined all parts. This will never be confirmed solvable, same as the 13 letter cipher, MYNAMEIS cipher. When Zodiac sent the 13 letter cipher, he introduced 4 new symbols, the three 8’s (or whatever they are) and the anchor. I go so far to say he purposely introduced those symbols to show he was not aiming on anyone solving the cipher, cause unsolvable, but to hint on something else.

Back to our "sandwich". If the "sandwich" is not a cipher, what is it then? Is it something? It would be something if the "sandwich" contained a keyword or keyphrase to "unlock" any other part of the 340, wouldn’t it? This would also be the only way that the "sandwich" could prove itself as a correct solution, right? So that’s where we are.

I am trying to " unlock" another part of the (408 encoded) 340 by applying a key I found in the "sandwich". What are the scenarios?

1.It could be that the ‘sandwich" is nothing but coincidence. In that case nothing is going to happen. A bunch of scrambled effort and perhaps a Polish Kielbasa.

2.The "sandwich" is the part where Zodiac indeed reveals that his name is… . Since he most likely was not so stupid not to anticipate that the cipher might be broken in his lifetime, he most certainly did not plant his name here or anywhere in the 340. He might have displayed his special kind of humor though (thanks J) and encipherd the fact that his name is …german…english..polish or whatever. We won’t know unless we know who Zodiac is, right? That’s a good one on his part, and very funny indeed. Just in case he planted it in a sandwich..that’s cool.

3.The sandwich offers a bunch of possible Zodiac related words, names or phrases, of which all but one may indeed unscramble a possible message contained somewhere in the (408 encoded) 340.

The FBI hinted some time ago towards the fact the characters in lines 1-3 and 11-13 are less randomly distributed. They think the writer was more cautious here to cover up a message than in the rest of the 340. They find that out by checking letter frequencies and distribution of those letters and characters. They run programs that show virtual peaks of character distribution.
Now that includes all characters, letters and symbols individually and combined. Usually, when you have that many symbols in a cipher those peaks get very "flat" because the letters are well camouflaged by those symbols. It gets more and more difficult to decipher a text like that unless it is much longer than the 340. Then it is a bit easier.
So we have a 340 cipher that has lots of symbols in its original version. We have a follow up communication from Zodiac, …have you solved the cipher…then immediately MY NAME IS… adding another "unsolvable" 13 letter cipher. But we also have a full alphabet (minus c as zeor value) key that Zodiac applied in the 408. The distribution or concept of the 408 is very similar to the 340. And yet, the 340 has not been solved in 42 years. Why not? We have way better cipher programs and tools that anytime before and we still cannot solve it? Because it is not a traditional cipher. Zodiac perfectly disguised the 340 including the cute correction where he wrote the reversed K.

I’ll be back. I’m back.

Forgot scenario

4. The 340 is just a bunch of nothing, the 13 letter cipher is just nothing, Zodiac is happy since he knows his "ciphers" will never be solved.

Being 42 years down the road has the advantage that we have seen lots of "solutions" that are not valid and lots of creative attempts of interpreting the 340 (did I ever post the "police badge" here? ). Solving ciphers, "real" ciphers, very often involves lots of luck to get it started just right or to find the password that will unlock the next step and therefore prove itself valid.

I am trying to explain everything in a way that anybody can understand. Next step is look again closer at the OTSEL TTEEINAT OTSEL sequence. If anyone has a clue what OTSEL or LESTO (other than the fist jigsaw manufacturer, actually it was sold under the name of LESTO) could mean, please post.

Post also if you have an idea what the unencoded OTSEL can mean: TLFWB / TIFWB

Or if you have a clue what the unencoded TTEEINAT can mean: ILWWPOSH

If you are familiar with solving ciphers, run some tests with the entire 5-8-5 string, wile considering that the value of N has to vary between E and T ( you will need to run 4 variations, EE-TT-ET-TE). Since the repeat is after 13 places, you will most likely have to guess a 13 letter phrase or word(sequence) if you suspect it to be a vignere. But you guys know what I mean.

You can also go ahead and take a closer look at lines 1-3 and 11-13 in the plaintext form (original 340) or the 408 encoded form. If you work with a program doing the permutations for you, it is much easier.

So that is what we are or have been doing. Any questions?

-Nin

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:02 pm

NIN – Once again, very good work by you and all concerned!

Some suggestions/thoughts/ideas, feel free to use any that make sense, reject the rest or reject them all.

1. Your work is very different from mine and I am not yet entirely convinced you are correct, but it was solid work that also matched up in some interesting ways with some prior work of mine and triggered some new thoughts, but since many of them deal with a specific suspect I posted them here http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com … ysis#18452

2. I would suggest you not "throw away" all the symbols in the 340. Rather, I would suggest this – "put them on the shelf". Right now you are making some interesting discoveries using your method of just dealing with letters. But perhaps the symbols are also meant to be translated, and perhaps they form a seperate message or even a message that goes with or compliments what you are finding. Personally I highly doubt Zodiac wrote all those symbols just to have them be meaningless. I am suggesting your method may be valid, but even if it is there may also be a reason for the symbols.

3. You ask what OTSEL might mean, my only thought is that it could be an anagram for STOLE.

4. You have a very interesting result, your ideas were logical, your work was serious, you document each step and you started with no POI or pre-concieved notions. That is great. And the result is indeed very interesting. IMO the key now would be to show that your method works on other parts of the 340, as you yourself say.

5. In the 1986 Graysmith proposed solution to the Zodiac 340, the 4th line translates as SEE A NAME. In my opinion that makes a very interesting fit with your proposed partial solution of POLISH or MY NAME IS POLISH. See how they potentially fit together?

So just hypothetically for a moment, taking Graysmith’s solution on the 4th line we have SEE A NAME, and your proposed solution on the 18th line as MY NAME IS POLISH. They fit very well together. Are these two possible clues Zodiac is giving us? If so it might be that the two possible clues are that he has hid his name in the 340 (SEE A NAME) and also that the name hidden is Polish (MY NAME IS POLISH).

Luke68, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:22 am

NIN – I think the work you’ve done is outstanding. Of course, we are still in a very ambiguous place. Probably as Z would have liked! For example, what if POLISH refers not to nationality but to polish as in floor or shoe polish. And the AETT which also means ‘clan’ or ‘family’ therefore translates as ‘polish family’. The most commonly known polish of course being Johnson’s Wax. Interestingly enough, Johnson’s Wax was invented in 1888 (three 8’s). And even more zynchronicity, the Johnson family (however not the S.C. Johnson family but the Johnson & Johnson one) had a schooner built for them in 1924 called Zodiac. It was retired in 1972 but still runs for private hire. Remember the unconfirmed letter ‘I am in control of all things’? In that missive, the author claims that his real name appears on certain items like friction tape. Of course, Johnson & Johnson make tape. Could the author be hinting that his name is JOHNSON?

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:39 pm

NIN – I think the work you’ve done is outstanding. Of course, we are still in a very ambiguous place. Probably as Z would have liked! For example, what if POLISH refers not to nationality but to polish as in floor or shoe polish. And the AETT which also means ‘clan’ or ‘family’ therefore translates as ‘polish family’. The most commonly known polish of course being Johnson’s Wax. Interestingly enough, Johnson’s Wax was invented in 1888 (three 8’s). And even more zynchronicity, the Johnson family (however not the S.C. Johnson family but the Johnson & Johnson one) had a schooner built for them in 1924 called Zodiac. It was retired in 1972 but still runs for private hire. Remember the unconfirmed letter ‘I am in control of all things’? In that missive, the author claims that his real name appears on certain items like friction tape. Of course, Johnson & Johnson make tape. Could the author be hinting that his name is JOHNSON?

Interesing, Luke68. Really is. Name in connection with friction tape? Where have I heard that before?

-Nin

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:53 pm

Luke & NIN: Its an interesting idea, but not likely correct IMO. I don’t know if NIN’s decode is correct, because it requires a number of assumptions, but it is solid work. If it is correct and the intended message is MY NAME IS POLISH, I think that fits more with an ethnicity than a polish wax. There are many types of polish waxes, think Pledge, surfboard wax, shoe polish, etc., etc. So the message would not be very clear, as there could be a dozen different names. And I don’t think someone would say their name is "polish", which is a verb not a noun. Whereas Polish names have a characteristic feature in mnay of them – they end in SKI.

But Luke/NIN it is thinking outside the box, and that is what we need, and who knows you may be right!

Of course Johnson & Johnson, founded by Robert WOOD Johnson, was targeted in 1982 by someone putting cyanide in Tylenol. You can even see the word Tylenol in the Zodiac card where he says if he gets lonely he will do his Thing.

IMO the July 1978 typewritten note is a probable fake. I put out a call for FOIA requests and TheForeigner wanted it so I asked for it. I would like to see it as well.

This is the typewritten July 1978 letter, transcipt as follows:

Date: July 19, 1978
Mailed From: Los Angeles, CA
Sent To: San Francisco Chronicle

Typewritten letter:

I am the ZODIAC and I am in control of all things. I am going to tell you a secret. I like friction tape. I like to have it around in case I need to truss someone up in a hurry….I have my real name on a small metallic tape. You see, while you have it in your possession, I want you to know it belongs to me and you think I may have left it accidentally. I am athletic. It could be swim fins, or a piece of scuba gear. But maybe you play chess with me. I have several cheap sets in closets all over. I have my name on the bottom of the lid with the scotch tape….My tape is waiting for me all over California. Do you know me? I am the ZODIAC and I am in control.

Chris Yarbough of http://www.zodiackillertruth.com raises some interesting questions about this letter, with some comments from me in brackets:

Is this genuine Zodiac correspondence? What is the author trying to say, besides his boast that he is "in control."

Were any murders committed in California where someone was bound with friction tape? What about the metallic tape? Is this an I.D. tape? A measuring tape? [Possible Zodiac victim Nancy Bennallack was found dead with masking tape near her body. Her killer may have tied or blindfolded her with tape, and left a piece behind. From 1976 to 1986, the EAR/ONS tied up his male and female victims, but usually used shoe laces or rope.]

Swim fins. Scuba gear. Arthur Leigh Allen used these items. But, was he the Zodiac, as Graysmith suggests? Was it Allen just trying to get his kicks claiming to be the killer? [Or someone, police detective or reporter, trying to throw suspicion on Allen?]

"But maybe you play chess with me." Was the Zodiac named Knight, King, or Bishop? Castle or Rook?[Or Bobby Fischer, the name of the eccentric champ? Or was the writer just saying he was a chess player?]

Friction tape. Metal tape. Scotch tape. The author is trying to say something with these references. What is he trying to say? [What are the names of popular brands of tape?]

NIN – I hope your method yields interesting results in other parts of the code, that would be more proof you may be onto something. Let me and othersknow what we can do to help.

Luke68, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:56 pm

AK, I agree that Johnson connection is a lot more tenuous than ethnicity. However, if TK is Zodiac then NIN’s solution actually works on both levels – JOHNson and Polish (Kaczynski). By the way, here’s the information on the J&J schooner, Zodiac:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiac_(schooner )

http://www.schoonerzodiac.com/history.htm

During the Depression, the Zodiac was sold to the San Francisco Bar Pilots, and renamed California. She worked the rugged waters outside the Golden Gate for forty years, retiring in 1972, as the last working pilot schooner in the United States.

It’s not just a detail as the ship itself is registered as an historical item and seems to have been quite famous in its time. Although it’s probably just zynchronicity, I do find it amusing that Ted was preoccupied with boats and sailing and here is a boat called Zodiac that was retired in 1972.

EDIT: I was just doing some more online research of the Zodiac schooner and I found reference to it in connection with The Zodiac on Websleuths by none other than Morf – way back in 2009.

morf13, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:33 pm

Wow, you really did some digging. I forgot all about that boat I found beck then, and I am not even sure if I realized it had anything to do with Johnson & Johnson.

morf13, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:48 pm

"I am the ZODIAC and I am in control of all things. I am going to tell you a secret. I like friction tape. I like to have it around in case I need to truss someone up in a hurry….I have my real name on a small metallic tape. You see, while you have it in your possession, I want you to know it belongs to me and you think I may have left it accidentally. I am athletic. It could be swim fins, or a piece of scuba gear. But maybe you play chess with me. I have several cheap sets in closets all over. I have my name on the bottom of the lid with the scotch tape….My tape is waiting for me all over California. Do you know me? I am the ZODIAC and I am in control."

"I have my real name on a small metallic tape". What is metallic tape? Does he mean he wrote his name on it, or the company that makes the tape is the same name as him?

"Im athletic. It could be swim fins or a piece of scuba gear". Is he saying he is into scuba, or does the scuba equipment company also have his last name?

"But maybe you play chess with me. I have several cheap sets in closets all over. I have my name on the bottom of the lid". Again, is he saying he wrote his name on the bottom of the lid, or is his last name the same as the chess game manufacturer? Also, the writer mentions "Several cheap sets in closets all over". What could be the meaning of that?

These possible clues are interesting. Assuming that this letter is really from Z, we need to ask, is he pointing to clues that will show his name, or pointing to clues that will tell us more about his habits?

Is there a scuba gear manufacturer from the 60’s and 70’s, that also matched the name of a chess board manufacturer? I dont play chess, nor do I have any scuba knowledge, but would be interesting to see if there were companies that shared a common name. Also, the writer mentioned " several cheap sets in closets all over" Aren’t nice chess sets somewhat pricey? The writer seems to be drawing attention to the ‘cheap’ sets. Is he talking checkers? I dont play chess or checkers, but isnt the basics of both game similar?

Finally if the writer is telling the truth and is Zodiac, what type of jobs would involve scuba diving, and games in closets? I was thinking like some sort of fireman or EMT. I know those guys, in between rescues, spend alot of down time hanging around the station, playing games and what not, and they also rescue people that have drowned or are lost in the water. If this is a possible line of work, then what position or job title would have Zodiac bouncing all over the state to different locations?? Of course, this may not be a real Z letter, and may be a wild goose chase.

Luke68, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:58 am

I have some thoughts on all of the above but will post them in the unconfirmed letters section. I don’t want to hijack NIN’s great work here

In the meantime, I’ve played around with the My name is… cipher. Yes, based on so few variables it’s almost impossible to break – so just for fun, using only the actual letters in the 408 encoded version and treating it like a straight substitution cipher, the only real word I can get is ALLEYWAY. This is probably a wild goose chase but thought I would throw it into the mix.

morf13, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:40 am

I have some thoughts on all of the above but will post them in the unconfirmed letters section. I don’t want to hijack NIN’s great work here

In the meantime, I’ve played around with the My name is… cipher. Yes, based on so few variables it’s almost impossible to break – so just for fun, using only the actual letters in the 408 encoded version and treating it like a straight substitution cipher, the only real word I can get is ALLEYWAY. This is probably a wild goose chase but thought I would throw it into the mix.

Good idea, we dont want to hijack NIN

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:58 pm

Yes you can discuss the July 1978 letter here:

http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com … 6-and-1987

Again, remember the controversy over the probably fake April 1978 letter, and then this one comes in TYPED, with a strange rambling voice not like other Z letters, I have thought this a probable fake, perhaps an intent to point suspicion at Allen. But who knows? It is interesting. I requested it in a FOIA per wishes of TheForeigner but have not got it yet.

Yes let us leave this thread for NIN and her very interesting work on the code.

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:32 pm

AK,

thank you for your comments. Here are some further thoughts:

"AK Wilks" NIN – Once again, very good work by you and all concerned!

Some suggestions/thoughts/ideas, feel free to use any that make sense, reject the rest or reject them all.

1. Your work is very different from mine and I am not yet entirely convinced you are correct, but it was solid work that also matched up in some interesting ways with some prior work of mine and triggered some new thoughts, but since many of them deal with a specific suspect I posted them here http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com … ysis#18452

Zodiac remains unidentified at thsi time. We do not really know his intellectual capabilities. If TK is Zodiac I would for example expect the 408 to be complete bogus and actually created like a multi level cipher. The deciphered 4o8 text just seems so immature and irrelevant that it is near commical. Your approach in the 340 thread is more sophisticated and would be more appropriate for someone of the intellectual caliber of TK. But then again, Zodiac sometimes gets lost in silly stuff and I don’t know if it is a cover or an uncontrolled burst of mediocre thinking. You get my point. Therefore I’d like to reingeneer the 340 on multiple levels considering an above intelligence individual (of course we may have our own limitations with this one.. ..) or an average individual or someone just in between.

2. I would suggest you not "throw away" all the symbols in the 340. Rather, I would suggest this – "put them on the shelf". Right now you are making some interesting discoveries using your method of just dealing with letters. But perhaps the symbols are also meant to be translated, and perhaps they form a seperate message or even a message that goes with or compliments what you are finding. Personally I highly doubt Zodiac wrote all those symbols just to have them be meaningless. I am suggesting your method may be valid, but even if it is there may also be a reason for the symbols.

I posted some letter frequency graphs on Z.com. If you look at them they seem to reiterate the thought there might be viable information in lines 1-3, 11-13, but also in lines 17-19 AFTER throwing out all the symbols and encode via 408 key. I thought that was interesting.

3. You ask what OTSEL might mean, my only thought is that it could be an anagram for STOLE.

Yes, I saw that too. Another thing that crossed (what a matching word..)my mind is the visual arrangement of the two identical outer parts OTSEL OTSEL framing the middle part. It really reminds me of a "bridge" (middle part) connecting two pieces of land. Water/ bridge seems a good connection regarding Zodiac. You know that "bridge" means "pont" in French, like in DuPont? :pirat: Guess waht the POLISH name for bridge or pont is? MOST!! LIke in MOST DANGEROUS ANIMAL… (3 letter cipher). If Zodiac was indeed Polish he planted the only Polish word in the 3 letter cipher there is. MOST ! Dunno..Perhaps one day in hindsight we can say, uhh, he gave us a real good clue..or so

4. You have a very interesting result, your ideas were logical, your work was serious, you document each step and you started with no POI or pre-concieved notions. That is great. And the result is indeed very interesting. IMO the key now would be to show that your method works on other parts of the 340, as you yourself say.

Yes, I am running some keys for lines 1-3/11-13, one of them being AHARDHOWLINGTOSSINGWATERSCENESTRONGTIDEWASWASHING, if anyone wants to try. I did post some more possible words on Z.com. These 49 letters being the length of lines 1-3/11-13 are derived from:

Washington Crossing the Delaware is a sonnet that was written in 1936 by David Shulman. The title and subject of the poem refer to the scene in the painting Washington Crossing the Delaware by Emanuel Gottlieb Leutze. The poem is noted for being an anagrammatic poem – in this case, a 14-line rhyming sonnet in which every line is an anagram of the title.

The Sonnet
A hard, howling, tossing water scene.
Strong tide was washing hero clean.
"How cold!" Weather stings as in anger.
O Silent night shows war ace danger!
The cold waters swashing on in rage.
Redcoats warn slow his hint engage.
When star general’s action wish’d "Go!"
He saw his ragged continentals row.
Ah, he stands – sailor crew went going.
And so this general watches rowing.
He hastens – winter again grows cold.
A wet crew gain Hessian stronghold.
George can’t lose war with’s hands in;
He’s astern – so go alight, crew, and win!d

I am also trying the THESEARETHETIMESTHATTRYMENSSOULSTHESUMMERSOLDIERA from Paine’s

"These are the times that try men’s souls; the summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph."

Water/lake hermann-berryessa/SF presidio water/Washington crossing a river/OTSEL POLISH OTSEL/bridge/MOST etc.

5. In the 1986 Graysmith proposed solution to the Zodiac 340, the 4th line translates as SEE A NAME. In my opinion that makes a very interesting fit with your proposed partial solution of POLISH or MY NAME IS POLISH. See how they potentially fit together?

Absolutely! Also the C’s! SEE’s! "See" it? There are 14 C’s in the 340, 2-2-2 of the in lines 17-18-19, like in CC or SEE SEE, "doublecheck" Sorry, I like to drift into creativity..

So just hypothetically for a moment, taking Graysmith’s solution on the 4th line we have SEE A NAME, and your proposed solution on the 18th line as MY NAME IS POLISH. They fit very well together. Are these two possible clues Zodiac is giving us? If so it might be that the two possible clues are that he has hid his name in the 340 (SEE A NAME) and also that the name hidden is Polish (MY NAME IS POLISH).

The 340 may very well be a 2 or 3 level cipher.

1. level: 0-3-6-9 key
2. level: cipher key found in lines 17-19
3. level: cipher key unlocks additional information possible contained in lines 17-19

Something like that. Who knows..

morf13, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:54 am

NIN, trying to keep up with the work you are doing, and make sure I am on the same page. If I understand correctly, you believe that OTSELTTEEINATOTSEL is a possible clue from Zodiac, is that correct? If so, do you think it is an anagram, or are you shying away from calling it an anagram? I also noticed, and think you also mentioned that there 18 characters in OTSELTTEEINATOTSEL, and there was 18 left over characters in the original cipher from Zodiac. Could they be related? Are they the same message, or part of the same message?

If it is indeed an anagram, certain words seem pretty obvious:

TEEN
TEENS
TO
AT
LET
LOST
I
SELL
LOTS
SEE
NEAT
TOO
TEN
TAN
LATE
SEEN
TELL
ALOT
STOLE
TEASE
STATE
NOTE
SENT
ALONE

Can a coherent message be found?

The best I came up with using every letter once was, I SENT TO TEASE LIE LOT. Could see Z sending a message like this after someone went thru all the trouble to solve it, only to find out Z was giving them busy work.

doranchak, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:25 am

You left out:

TALENT TO SEE TOILETS

rand, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:40 am

Washington Crossing the Delaware is a sonnet that was written in 1936 by David Shulman. The title and subject of the poem refer to the scene in the painting Washington Crossing the Delaware by Emanuel Gottlieb Leutze. The poem is noted for being an anagrammatic poem – in this case, a 14-line rhyming sonnet in which every line is an anagram of the title.

The Sonnet
A hard, howling, tossing water scene.
Strong tide was washing hero clean.
"How cold!" Weather stings as in anger.
O Silent night shows war ace danger!
The cold waters swashing on in rage.
Redcoats warn slow his hint engage.
When star general’s action wish’d "Go!"
He saw his ragged continentals row.
Ah, he stands – sailor crew went going.
And so this general watches rowing.
He hastens – winter again grows cold.
A wet crew gain Hessian stronghold.
George can’t lose war with’s hands in;
He’s astern – so go alight, crew, and win!d

I am also trying the THESEARETHETIMESTHATTRYMENSSOULSTHESUMMERSOLDIERA from Paine’s

"These are the times that try men’s souls; the summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph."

This is fascinating. How did you get this? Is it in the 340 somewhere?

Luke68, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:36 pm

NIN, trying to keep up with the work you are doing, and make sure I am on the same page. If I understand correctly, you believe that OTSELTTEEINATOTSEL is a possible clue from Zodiac, is that correct? If so, do you think it is an anagram, or are you shying away from calling it an anagram? I also noticed, and think you also mentioned that there 18 characters in OTSELTTEEINATOTSEL, and there was 18 left over characters in the original cipher from Zodiac. Could they be related? Are they the same message, or part of the same message?

If it is indeed an anagram, certain words seem pretty obvious:

TEEN
TEENS
TO
AT
LET
LOST
I
SELL
LOTS
SEE
NEAT
TOO
TEN
TAN
LATE
SEEN
TELL
ALOT
STOLE
TEASE
STATE
NOTE
SENT
ALONE

Can a coherent message be found?

The best I came up with using every letter once was, I SENT TO TEASE LIE LOT. Could see Z sending a message like this after someone went thru all the trouble to solve it, only to find out Z was giving them busy work.

Unrelated to this thread, I was doing some searching on Frank Dryman AKA Frank Valentine and found this pic. The tattoos on his left fingers reminded me a lot of the middle section of OTSELTTEEINATOTSEL.

rand, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:00 pm

What I get from OTSELTTEEINATOTSEL is:

TO TELL STINE EAST with OTE left over.

What if the OTSELTTEEINATOTSEL is a fragment of a sentence, and the OTE is part of another word in the 340, such as FORGET or something like that? I think the 340 might very well have to do with the Stine murder, since he put part of his shirt in the letter.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:11 pm

@Luke68–

I have the original newspaper article somewhere. I believe the tatts on his hands have something to do with his time in the Navy.

(Reminds me of Titipoo/Mikado)

, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:32 pm

@Luke68–

I have the original newspaper article somewhere. I believe the tatts on his hands have something to do with his time in the Navy.

(Reminds me of Titipoo/Mikado)

IMO there could be absolutely no connection between the Mikado and the "little list." Think of all the people you know who have "to do" lists, "honey do" lists, "wish" lists, etc. Otoh, there could be but if there was, I’d think there would be more clues relating to it.

The Mikado was performed in my high school as I recall! I think there is a song from it about "little maids from school" that would appeal to Z as well as the "little list."

, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:37 pm

What I get from OTSELTTEEINATOTSEL is:

TO TELL STINE EAST with OTE left over.

What if the OTSELTTEEINATOTSEL is a fragment of a sentence, and the OTE is part of another word in the 340, such as FORGET or something like that? I think the 340 might very well have to do with the Stine murder, since he put part of his shirt in the letter.

What about "teens tease a lot?" If Z had a girlfriend who was "leading him on" or had lied to him about her age, that could have enraged him. Look at all the young girls who brazenly chase after anything in pants. It isn’t hard for an underage girl to make herself look older with hair, makeup and clothing.

rand, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:48 pm

There are two "a"s in Teens Tease A Lot, but there aren’t two "a"s in OTSELTTEEINATOTSEL.

Luke68, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:43 pm

@Luke68–

I have the original newspaper article somewhere. I believe the tatts on his hands have something to do with his time in the Navy.

(Reminds me of Titipoo/Mikado)

IMO there could be absolutely no connection between the Mikado and the "little list." Think of all the people you know who have "to do" lists, "honey do" lists, "wish" lists, etc. Otoh, there could be but if there was, I’d think there would be more clues relating to it.

The Mikado was performed in my high school as I recall! I think there is a song from it about "little maids from school" that would appeal to Z as well as the "little list."

Except that Z didn’t just state ‘So now I have a little list’, he wrote out (in that same letter) the entire song: ‘As someday it may happen’ (using what appears to be the words from the Groucho version). I think that’s enough of a clue

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/seri … mer_6.html

Regarding the Mikado, it’s interesting that you can re-arrange the letters to almost spell out Zodiac with a K (that form seems to appear in the 340 as well). Again, related to this thread is that Zodiak is the Polish word for Zodiac.

rand, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:13 pm

@Luke68–

I have the original newspaper article somewhere. I believe the tatts on his hands have something to do with his time in the Navy.

(Reminds me of Titipoo/Mikado)

IMO there could be absolutely no connection between the Mikado and the "little list."

I don’t understand what you’re talking about. Z wrote a letter, which we refer to as the "Little List" letter, which apes the Mikado’s "The Punishment Fit the Crime," sung by the Mikado himself. What don’t you understand?

Zamantha, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:40 pm

@Luke68–

I have the original newspaper article somewhere. I believe the tatts on his hands have something to do with his time in the Navy.

(Reminds me of Titipoo/Mikado)

IMO there could be absolutely no connection between the Mikado and the "little list."

I don’t understand what you’re talking about. Z wrote a letter, which we refer to as the "Little List" letter, which apes the Mikado’s "The Punishment Fit the Crime," sung by the Mikado himself. What don’t you understand?

Hi Rand, yes I’m not understanding what lovethecar is saying either? I know lovethecar has their own POI, so prehaps they are relating their posts to what they know on that person??
There is a thread for lovethecar to post their information and ask for help or ideas in the possible suspects area…… under

lovethecar’s POI <— my hopes they post some of their ideas there.

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:56 pm

You left out:

TALENT TO SEE TOILETS

Welcome on board!?

-Nin

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:58 pm

..
This is fascinating. How did you get this? Is it in the 340 somewhere?

No, it’s in my head, for now. :clown:

-Nin

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:18 pm

OTSELTTEEINATOTSEL :

I’d like to anticipate that the sequence above is a passphrase (or a combination of a code plus gibberish, OTSEL being the codeword for exampple and the middle part being gibberish or vica versa) for lines 1-3 and 11-13 ( in any combination of the 6 lines and in consideration that N has a double value of E or T [relevant for lines 2 and 6].)
However, we cannot exclude that the sequence may very well be an anagram ( entire sequence or partial sequence), can we? But keep it straightforward, nothing complicated or incomplete. If this was an anagram for example, I would not expect " ME NAM IS ZODAIC " or so. He would not have gone through that trouble to fabricate, cover up, encode and to anagram just to end with something like that. However, considering his playing with words I could imagine getting words like "GAL" for GAIL or "MI" for MY, the way the letters are pronounced and can form words. Kinda funny.

So if you want to try, run anagrams, the original, partial or what else comes to mind. Also, we are not set on how the 6 lines were encrypted, if at all. We can only try and exclude by trial and error, or by making an educated guess on what kind of encryption- if any- can be excluded for reasons observed.

I am hoping to have oranchak on board! His programs are awesome!!

-Nin

, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:57 pm

I have an open mind. I notice when others comment that Z may have been giving false clues in the cipher and elsewhere as "busy work" they don’t get the nasty feedback I do.

My point is that this could be an example of Z’s intentional misdirection. I never said it DID NOT relate to the Mikado; I said perhaps it does not and was meant to mislead or to give out a busywork assignment.

I don’t see where any of the known victims or suspected victims have any of the negative qualities in the "little list" that Z listed. But then again, you seem to think I don’t understand.

Please list any of the victims of any of these crimes that you could match up in some way with the "little list." Maybe then I would understand why some seem to think there is a DEFINITE link to the Mikado rather than a possible one.

All I’ve read about are suspects who were thought to be connected to the Mikado and they have all been cleared or perhaps that is another item I’ll be accused of not understanding.

Zamantha, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:09 am

I have an open mind. I notice when others comment that Z may have been giving false clues in the cipher and elsewhere as "busy work" they don’t get the nasty feedback I do.

My point is that this could be an example of Z’s intentional misdirection. I never said it DID NOT relate to the Mikado; I said perhaps it does not and was meant to mislead or to give out a busywork assignment.

I don’t see where any of the known victims or suspected victims have any of the negative qualities in the "little list" that Z listed. But then again, you seem to think I don’t understand.

Please list any of the victims of any of these crimes that you could match up in some way with the "little list." Maybe then I would understand why some seem to think there is a DEFINITE link to the Mikado rather than a possible one.

All I’ve read about are suspects who were thought to be connected to the Mikado and they have all been cleared or perhaps that is another item I’ll be accused of not understanding.

love the car, we are just trying our best to keep this thread on topic. This is Nin’s thread where she asked for help looking at her findings. Any additional subjects should be on another topic. The suspects are in the suspect threads.
If you would like to do the homework of researching an making that list…go for it and we will all read.
Jes trying to keep the threads on topic. Thanks for understanding.

Zamantha, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:10 am

OTSELTTEEINATOTSEL :

I’d like to anticipate that the sequence above is a passphrase (or a combination of a code plus gibberish, OTSEL being the codeword for exampple and the middle part being gibberish or vica versa) for lines 1-3 and 11-13 ( in any combination of the 6 lines and in consideration that N has a double value of E or T [relevant for lines 2 and 6].)
However, we cannot exclude that the sequence may very well be an anagram ( entire sequence or partial sequence), can we? But keep it straightforward, nothing complicated or incomplete. If this was an anagram for example, I would not expect " ME NAM IS ZODAIC " or so. He would not have gone through that trouble to fabricate, cover up, encode and to anagram just to end with something like that. However, considering his playing with words I could imagine getting words like "GAL" for GAIL or "MI" for MY, the way the letters are pronounced and can form words. Kinda funny.

So if you want to try, run anagrams, the original, partial or what else comes to mind. Also, we are not set on how the 6 lines were encrypted, if at all. We can only try and exclude by trial and error, or by making an educated guess on what kind of encryption- if any- can be excluded for reasons observed.

I am hoping to have oranchak on board! His programs are awesome!!

-Nin

Bumping this post up to stay of topic.

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:39 am

..
Unrelated to this thread, I was doing some searching on Frank Dryman AKA Frank Valentine and found this pic. The tattoos on his left fingers reminded me a lot of the middle section of OTSELTTEEINATOTSEL.

Wow, interesting find, Luke.

Also, not in connection with Dryman and not that it neccessarily mean anything but the symmetry in EDWARDS WAYNE EDWARDS is striking to the MYNAMEIS cipher symmetry and in particular to the OTSELTTEEINATOTSEL symmetry.

We may be very well cruising around something here, who knows.

-Nin

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:26 pm

OTSELTTEEINATOTSEL

I used to get criticized a lot for thinking anagrams could be part of the solutions to the Zodiac codes. I did and still do think limited anagrams are part of some of the Zodiac code solutions. But I now tend to think less of any solutions (mine included) were the anagram is dispersed over too far an area. So what I now consider a "good" possible anangram is one we see in the Graysmith 340 solution on the 7th line, ALSTB, a possible anagram for BLAST. All five letters are bunched together, and the word is one Zodiac used. That is a concentrated anagram.

An even more concentrated anagram is on the Graysmith 2nd line BTSALTESEH. Just make one move, take the "B" and put it after the "L". You get:

TSALBTESEH.

Now read that part backwards. It says (intended or not) HE SET BLAST. That is the kind of anagram that "rings true" because it clearly conveys a particular message, one that everyone looking at it can mostly agree on. When you do widespread anagrams, were you can get dozens of potential messages, IMO it seems unlikely Zodiac would have used them much, because they don’t clearly convey the one message he wanted. On the other hand, widespread type anagrams DO serve the potential goal of giving the police "busy work" to keep them distracted and frustrated and cause confusion about the message, which helps to obscure his identity, because any clue found is buried among dozens of clues not intended. But on balance I now think widespread anagrams are not likely to have been used much by Zodiac, unless there are numerical or letter patterns in the anagrams.

With OTSELTTEEINATOTSEL there are probably not just dozens of potential anagrams but hundreds. Several people here came up with some good ones. But if you go widespread you can come up with most anything.

As I admit, I did not use to feel this way, and I am guilty of using more widespread anagrams (most of which have numerical or letter patterns) in parts of my Map Code solution, which now makes me look at parts of that effort were the widespread anagrams don’t have numerical patterns (the 14 letters not part of the 18 letter name) with a little less confidence then the Graysmith 340 as worked on by me, Kite and others, were most of the code solution has no anagrams, and when they are used they are almost always very concentrated.

Here I see TO, SELL, TEEN, NATO, TOTS, SLOT, STOLE, but I can’t yet formulate a coherent message.

I think Nin’s original idea about the framing of POLISH is better supported as it is a more concentrated anagram, and thus IMO more likely to be intended and not just chance.

The key question then becomes, can Nin’s method and very interesting result be repeated in other parts of the 340 code, or is it just used in this one part?

AK – Your work is very different from mine and I am not yet entirely convinced you are correct, but it was solid work that also matched up in some interesting ways with some prior work of mine and triggered some new thoughts, but since many of them deal with a specific suspect I posted them here http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com … ysis#18452

NIN – Zodiac remains unidentified at thsi time. We do not really know his intellectual capabilities. If TK is Zodiac I would for example expect the 408 to be complete bogus and actually created like a multi level cipher. The deciphered 4o8 text just seems so immature and irrelevant that it is near commical. Your approach in the 340 thread is more sophisticated and would be more appropriate for someone of the intellectual caliber of TK. But then again, Zodiac sometimes gets lost in silly stuff and I don’t know if it is a cover or an uncontrolled burst of mediocre thinking. You get my point. Therefore I’d like to reingeneer the 340 on multiple levels considering an above intelligence individual (of course we may have our own limitations with this one.. ..) or an average individual or someone just in between.

AK – I don’t know, remember the 408 defied efforts of the FBI and Navy to break it. I agree with you that once broken, Zodiac would make the 340 much harder and IMO likely mutli-stage, as was the unsolved 18 from the 408.

AK – In the 1986 Graysmith proposed solution to the Zodiac 340, the 4th line translates as SEE A NAME. In my opinion that makes a very interesting fit with your proposed partial solution of POLISH or MY NAME IS POLISH. See how they potentially fit together?

NIN – Absolutely! Also the C’s! SEE’s! "See" it? There are 14 C’s in the 340, 2-2-2 of the in lines 17-18-19, like in CC or SEE SEE, "doublecheck" Sorry, I like to drift into creativity..

AK – So just hypothetically for a moment, taking Graysmith’s solution on the 4th line we have SEE A NAME, and your proposed solution on the 18th line as MY NAME IS POLISH. They fit very well together. Are these two possible clues Zodiac is giving us? If so it might be that the two possible clues are that he has hid his name in the 340 (SEE A NAME) and also that the name hidden is Polish (MY NAME IS POLISH).

NIN – The 340 may very well be a 2 or 3 level cipher.

1. level: 0-3-6-9 key
2. level: cipher key found in lines 17-19
3. level: cipher key unlocks additional information possible contained in lines 17-19

Something like that. Who knows..

AK – Yes I agree.

rand, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:04 am

I’m responding directly to AK’s post directly above regarding his beliefs about the validity of an anagram solution to the 340. AK: I don’t understand why Graysmith’s SEE A NAME has the ring of truth for you. Yet, when I point out an entire line in the 340 that is an anagram/wordplay, which translates into a bomb threat — which is precisely what Z sent the very next day after the 340 — I get no comment. This is extremely important because, if true, it essentially proves that the 340 is not a cipher but rather a word game. So what am I missing? Here’s the line I’m talking about:

First part:
U + R/OTEIDYB
Solution:
U+R = YOU ARE
/OTEIDYB = TO DIE BY (written backwards)
then there’s 9BTMKO = BOM T9K = Bomb tic
So the line reads: YOU ARE TO DIE BY BOMB, TIC

Moreover, and this is directly related to NIN’s idea that the MY NAME IS cipher is a clue to solving the 340(something I’ve been saying and agreeing with for years now), if the MY NAME IS cipher is an anagram for something as simple as MY NAME CAEN (with non-letters being discarded), this fits with the solution to line 11 that I’ve presented.

Here’s my point: whatever you think the 340 is, you should have an opinion about line 11. If it’s what it looks like (an anagram), how can the 340 then be a cipher? If you don’t think line 11 is an anagram for You are to Die by Bomb, Tic, then you should explain why not. I think one needs a reasoned argument and position about this line.

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:09 pm

Hey, you guys are pretty good! All interesting points here. Whatever the solution is, it needs to show some consistency. I believe I just found a pretty simple agreement in the HC regarding with the "SEE A NAME". Rand’s last post re the HC virtually opened my eyes to c. To see. I can’t believe I did not see this before. Since the HC may contain a clue to solving the 340 and it may be helpful towards by "sandwich" I guess it is okay to stay in this thread and post my thought here:

There are 2 possible names hidden here. rand found a third one, I am sure you can find more than 3. However, how many names can you find with a solution that says "SEE A NAME" " ED" or "TED" and depend on the N, the 14th letter of the alphabet? The reverse N in the PARADICE SLAVES cross? Can you believe it?? I am falling off my chair laughing my whatnot off.. ED or TED..hillarious!

Here we go, look at the HC. It is so simple..Start in the upper left corner ( Western reading goes from left to right, up to down, correct?). What do you see? 3 eyes, value C like the white of the eyes, next a knotwhole with a single eye, value A. A knothole: it knots the single eye together with the text written around it, right? Look closer at the text. The ME is written bigger. I always noticed that but never thought about the following: Single eys as A value combined with the "ME" gives you an "_AME". You think someting is missing? He gives it to us! The N! NAME! We have
C _AME
The shape of the knothole together with the text forms an additional stylized eye, a not so prevalent eye, an "a" ?
SEE a _AME + 14 teenth letter of the alphabet N

SEE a NAME

Next, 5 eyes, value E
Next, 4 large eyes, value D
ED
Next, same principle than before with the missing N
the skeleton! it is shaped like a T
TED

So we have either ED or TED!! Simple and straightforward, in my mind. "SEE A NAME"

He is even telling us 14 times in the HC, to C , "SEE". Just to simple "SEE", no hocus pocus, no anagramming needed, just eyes. All that eyes do is to SEE. And then we also have only 14 C’s in the 340. But this is another post.

-Nin

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:20 pm

And no, I did not expect to see ED ot TED before I started to "read" the rebus. ( bus? )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebus

-Nin

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:19 pm

I’m responding directly to AK’s post directly above regarding his beliefs about the validity of an anagram solution to the 340. AK: I don’t understand why Graysmith’s SEE A NAME has the ring of truth for you. Yet, when I point out an entire line in the 340 that is an anagram/wordplay, which translates into a bomb threat — which is precisely what Z sent the very next day after the 340 — I get no comment. This is extremely important because, if true, it essentially proves that the 340 is not a cipher but rather a word game. So what am I missing? Here’s the line I’m talking about:

First part:
U + R/OTEIDYB
Solution:
U+R = YOU ARE
/OTEIDYB = TO DIE BY (written backwards)
then there’s 9BTMKO = BOM T9K = Bomb tic
So the line reads: YOU ARE TO DIE BY BOMB, TIC

Moreover, and this is directly related to NIN’s idea that the MY NAME IS cipher is a clue to solving the 340(something I’ve been saying and agreeing with for years now), if the MY NAME IS cipher is an anagram for something as simple as MY NAME CAEN (with non-letters being discarded), this fits with the solution to line 11 that I’ve presented.

Here’s my point: whatever you think the 340 is, you should have an opinion about line 11. If it’s what it looks like (an anagram), how can the 340 then be a cipher? If you don’t think line 11 is an anagram for You are to Die by Bomb, Tic, then you should explain why not. I think one needs a reasoned argument and position about this line.

Rand when I look at line 11 I don’t see what you see. It is not clear to me that Z intended that to read what you say you see. Z uses letter and symbols, so almost every line you can "see" words. Did he intend HER and DOG on the first line? And TOM at another place near the middle? I doubt it.

But even if it was intended, and I read it as more likely U R TO DIE BY TK, that would not change my mind that the FBI analysis that the 340 IS a code is correct. The Graysmith solution and my years of work and discoveries, and a partial solution, confirm to me it is a code. I see that Zodiac often has two or even three code solutions or meanings. So even if I agreed with you that this message was intended it changes nothing for me.

I think it is possible Z put in some first level clues and hints in the raw 340 – see the Unit sphere vector cross, the three "09" ‘s, the LOOK and BOMB below. That is just child’s play for Zodiac, the first stage. Then you have the Graysmith solution (second stage), the the cryptics in the Graysmith solution (LIST, BOMBS, BLAST) (third stage) then the 0-3-6-9 Caesar shifts (fourth stage).

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:28 pm

And no, I did not expect to see ED ot TED before I started to "read" the rebus. ( bus? )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebus

-Nin

NIN it is very interesting work. I am glad you see a possible TED! Or ED!

But I must be honest, I think you may be stretching a bit. The skeleton could be a "T", yes, but so then is every human figure with arms extended. As I look at the skeleton, his arms form more of a "V" shape, not the "T" shape. I also don’t clearly see the shape of an "A" in the tree.

I do see the "C" ‘s in the eyes very clearly! And I do see most else of what you see.

It is very interesting, but the highly cryptic nature of these kinds of finds leaves them open to debate, and thus I can tell you from experience most police don’t care about them. They can’t be used as evidence. They may help you and other researchers sharpen your focus into certain areas or suspects, so in that sense they are relevant and helpful.

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:53 pm

And no, I did not expect to see ED ot TED before I started to "read" the rebus. ( bus? )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebus

-Nin

NIN it is very interesting work. I am glad you see a possible TED! Or ED!

But I must be honest, I think you may be stretching a bit. The skeleton could be a "T", yes, but so then is every human figure with arms extended. As I look at the skeleton, his arms form more of a "V" shape, not the "T" shape. I also don’t clearly see the shape of an "A" in the tree.

I do see the "C" ‘s in the eyes very clearly! And I do see most else of what you see.

It is very interesting, but the highly cryptic nature of these kinds of finds leaves them open to debate, and thus I can tell you from experience most police don’t care about them. They can’t be used as evidence. They may help you and other researchers sharpen your focus into certain areas or suspects, so in that sense they are relevant and helpful.

Not the shape of an A in the tree, an alphabetical value for 1 = A. The knothole is eye shaped, a possible second A. The C’s in the eyes is only an additional hint, I would say. The numerical value of the eye groupings seem to be the clue. The skeleton and the number 14 are so close to each other. Probably ambigeous for a victim count but also a possible clue, here for the letter N.
On the front of the HC the skeleton has a 14 on its right hand. Inside the HC the 4 teen is positioned in between its arms. Writing out the 14 as numerical number and then as a play of words could be a hint of an ambigeous approach, a visual play of words, a rebus.

I was pretty surprised. And as I said, there may be more to the ED or TED by adding the BOO and else. Dunno.

-Nin

morf13, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:02 pm

And no, I did not expect to see ED ot TED before I started to "read" the rebus. ( bus? )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebus

-Nin

NIN it is very interesting work. I am glad you see a possible TED! Or ED!

But I must be honest, I think you may be stretching a bit. The skeleton could be a "T", yes, but so then is every human figure with arms extended. As I look at the skeleton, his arms form more of a "V" shape, not the "T" shape. I also don’t clearly see the shape of an "A" in the tree.

I do see the "C" ‘s in the eyes very clearly! And I do see most else of what you see.

It is very interesting, but the highly cryptic nature of these kinds of finds leaves them open to debate, and thus I can tell you from experience most police don’t care about them. They can’t be used as evidence. They may help you and other researchers sharpen your focus into certain areas or suspects, so in that sense they are relevant and helpful.

Not the shape of an A in the tree, an alphabetical value for 1 = A. The knothole is eye shaped, a possible second A. The C’s in the eyes is only an additional hint, I would say. The numerical value of the eye groupings seem to be the clue. The skeleton and the number 14 are so close to each other. Probably ambigeous for a victim count but also a possible clue, here for the letter N.
On the front of the HC the skeleton has a 14 on its right hand. Inside the HC the 4 teen is positioned in between its arms. Writing out the 14 as numerical number and then as a play of words could be a hint of an ambigeous approach, a visual play of words, a rebus.

I was pretty surprised. And as I said, there may be more to the ED or TED by adding the BOO and else. Dunno.

-Nin

How about BOO, as in BUJOK??

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:05 pm

Ok thanks I understand a little better now but still not sure about the T. set aside te B and you have TEODO. just need a H and a R lol sorry on cell phone

rand, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:36 pm

I’m responding directly to AK’s post directly above regarding his beliefs about the validity of an anagram solution to the 340. AK: I don’t understand why Graysmith’s SEE A NAME has the ring of truth for you. Yet, when I point out an entire line in the 340 that is an anagram/wordplay, which translates into a bomb threat — which is precisely what Z sent the very next day after the 340 — I get no comment. This is extremely important because, if true, it essentially proves that the 340 is not a cipher but rather a word game. So what am I missing? Here’s the line I’m talking about:

First part:
U + R/OTEIDYB
Solution:
U+R = YOU ARE
/OTEIDYB = TO DIE BY (written backwards)
then there’s 9BTMKO = BOM T9K = Bomb tic
So the line reads: YOU ARE TO DIE BY BOMB, TIC

Moreover, and this is directly related to NIN’s idea that the MY NAME IS cipher is a clue to solving the 340(something I’ve been saying and agreeing with for years now), if the MY NAME IS cipher is an anagram for something as simple as MY NAME CAEN (with non-letters being discarded), this fits with the solution to line 11 that I’ve presented.

Here’s my point: whatever you think the 340 is, you should have an opinion about line 11. If it’s what it looks like (an anagram), how can the 340 then be a cipher? If you don’t think line 11 is an anagram for You are to Die by Bomb, Tic, then you should explain why not. I think one needs a reasoned argument and position about this line.

Rand when I look at line 11 I don’t see what you see. It is not clear to me that Z intended that to read what you say you see. Z uses letter and symbols, so almost every line you can "see" words. Did he intend HER and DOG on the first line? And TOM at another place near the middle? I doubt it.

But even if it was intended, and I read it as more likely U R TO DIE BY TK

uggh! How can you get U R TO DIE BY TK? Such a reading clearly ignores these letters on the line: (1) a B (backwards), (2) an O, (3) an M, and (4) very possibly another b (the upside down 9 — note that he drew the 9s with a straight rather than a rounded line. There is a reason: turn the 340 upside down and you’ll see that they’re b’s).

So at the very least you get: U R TO DIE BY BOMb TK. I would think that this would make you very happy. But you don’t see it. Why did I figure that would be the case? People are so selective in what they choose to see. Z sends a message about a BOMB the next day after the 340, but you don’t see this. Yet, you quote Graysmith’s SEE A NAME and his other tortured renderings of the 340 — that’s what irks me. But carry on. I give up trying to make sense of things.
Btw, if the skeleton is a letter (and I think it is), it’s neither an A or a V, as has been suggested above. It’s a Y (the feet count, right?).

We’re never going to solve the 340 until we first figure out what it is. I say it’s a clever word puzzle.

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:47 pm

Rand, good evidence makes me happy.

We are getting off the topic of NIN’s work so I responded to you here: http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com … diac#18692

morf13, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:40 am

And no, I did not expect to see ED ot TED before I started to "read" the rebus. ( bus? )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebus

-Nin

NIN it is very interesting work. I am glad you see a possible TED! Or ED!

But I must be honest, I think you may be stretching a bit. The skeleton could be a "T", yes, but so then is every human figure with arms extended. As I look at the skeleton, his arms form more of a "V" shape, not the "T" shape. I also don’t clearly see the shape of an "A" in the tree.

I do see the "C" ‘s in the eyes very clearly! And I do see most else of what you see.

It is very interesting, but the highly cryptic nature of these kinds of finds leaves them open to debate, and thus I can tell you from experience most police don’t care about them. They can’t be used as evidence. They may help you and other researchers sharpen your focus into certain areas or suspects, so in that sense they are relevant and helpful.

Not the shape of an A in the tree, an alphabetical value for 1 = A. The knothole is eye shaped, a possible second A. The C’s in the eyes is only an additional hint, I would say. The numerical value of the eye groupings seem to be the clue. The skeleton and the number 14 are so close to each other. Probably ambigeous for a victim count but also a possible clue, here for the letter N.
On the front of the HC the skeleton has a 14 on its right hand. Inside the HC the 4 teen is positioned in between its arms. Writing out the 14 as numerical number and then as a play of words could be a hint of an ambigeous approach, a visual play of words, a rebus.

I was pretty surprised. And as I said, there may be more to the ED or TED by adding the BOO and else. Dunno.-Nin

Could it be Ed Edwards???

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:14 am

NIN it is very interesting work. I am glad you see a possible TED! Or ED!

But I must be honest, I think you may be stretching a bit. The skeleton could be a "T", yes, but so then is every human figure with arms extended. As I look at the skeleton, his arms form more of a "V" shape, not the "T" shape. I also don’t clearly see the shape of an "A" in the tree.

I do see the "C" ‘s in the eyes very clearly! And I do see most else of what you see.

It is very interesting, but the highly cryptic nature of these kinds of finds leaves them open to debate, and thus I can tell you from experience most police don’t care about them. They can’t be used as evidence. They may help you and other researchers sharpen your focus into certain areas or suspects, so in that sense they are relevant and helpful.

..

Could it be Ed Edwards???

Could be. However, there are many names I am sure you could construct via HC with a similar approach (see rand’s idea, not bad by the way). I would not use these clues ( if they are) as base for further cracking the 340. But I would sure keep them in mind, just in case.
Also, don’t forget, there still is the possibility that the author of the HC, or for that matter of any Zodiac communication, might have very well been blaming someone else. Since lots of it is cryptic, he made it not so obvious (if that was his intention).

-Nin

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:36 am

I posted some stuff on Z.com, which I would like to also discuss here. First of all, here is the 408 encoded version of the 340 ASCII letters only including the regular and flipped C’s:

340 encoded via 408, includes all C’s ( + reversed ones) and double values E/T for N

% =E/T
) = reverse C

T E G + + + + B I + T + T O A + +
% + + L + + N + N E U + + + S + +
L + + ) H + I E A E + + T + + T F
A + + + + + + + B + + N + + G S +
+ + H + + + + + T + S I + + + + +
+ + G + S + N + + + C + S + + N +
+ + + S + + + + I ) O A S + + T T
+ A + F + + + N + + % U + + + T +
+ + H + + + E G + S L ) + W + + S
+ + + I B + + F + N + + + S L + +
I + G + + + E T N U L + + O H S N
+ + ) + G F T + + O + H + + + L S
+ + + A + + + % T + S L ) + + + G
+ A S % + + + + + + + ) B + + + +
+ L + + + + + + C E + B I E + + +
T ) + + + L S + N + + + + H + A +
G ) O + T + + C + + S + E L T + T
+ + + E C + E ) I N A T O + + + +
T S + + E + + + L + U N L + + C )
+ H N T % + + A + E N + W T S + +

Here is the 340 marked with

1. the correctly orientated C’s
2. the flipped C’s
3. a combination of 1 and 2
4. the flipped C’s, that are prominently located in one of the two 90 degree connected strings ( not that it means anything, but they are there)
5. both of the two connected 90 degree strings found in the 340 ( again, may be coincidence, weird it is though)
6. the 6 of the C’s found in lines 17-19

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

I am looking at the C’s here. They have a zero value for a 408 encoding ("after the fact"), which makes them different than the other letters. Keeping the Halloween card in mind, the orientation of the c’s may be a clue of some sort. I am not claiming the C’s from the HC are connected to the C’s of the 340. I am just observing that the eyes in the HC are all faced to the right and that the eyes are reminiscent of C’s (SEE’s), especially the white iris in the HC eyes. I also noted that the HC writer placed a Z in between the HC symbol and his crosshair symbol. While the crosshair symbol clearly identifies the writer ( authenticity questions in general disregarded) he decides to write a Z next to it. When you tilt the Z in any way 90 degrees it becomes an N (regular orientated). When you flip the card (flip! funny..) I notice further he flipped the N in Knife. This could be a coincidence or a clue. Clue for orientation of letters? Funny the writer uses small u’s in the 340. They will not resemble C’s when flipped 90 degrees for example. This may be an adfditional clue or coincidence. If anyone wants to go ahead and check for 90 degrees "flippable" letters ( either way), go ahead and post the letters. Excluding by checking..

Maybe some astronomy/astrology buffs could check for star constellations that match the positions of the C’s in the 340 ( correct C’s, flipped C’s and combination of all C’s). Any takers? Zodiac may have given us an additional clue regarding his identity and clodely connected to his moniker, his zodiac sign.

I am really checking for pass codes and phrases based on lines 17 through 19 at this time to perhaps unlock lines 1-3 and 11-13.
On the way there are some interesting observations that may or may not mean anything. They can only be excluded by checking them out.

-Nin

morf13, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:46 am

Good Luck!! Hope you solve it or at least find some clues :cheers:

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:53 am

Good Luck!! Hope you solve it or at least find some clues :cheers:

We need to solve it to know if we had clues on the way or not.

-Nin

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:21 am

First 6 lines of the original 340 considering "flipped" letter characters ( what you get after a vertical/ horizontal flip) and letters that are regularly orientated

Vertical flip regularly orientated letters

1. HPLVITD
2. PF
3. YC
4. PPLP
5. DK
6. PLDK

Horizontal flip

1. V
4. V
5. T
6.V

regularly orientated letters

1. ERPLG
2. NBODWYK
3. BMUZGWLHJ
4. SVORK
5. MIFP
6. RFOCFD

I am not repeating letters that are visible and can be flipped while displaying the same value. Like EMWOV etc. because they are already there. However, after we did the entire 340 in this system, we can creat a second version where these letters may be added.

Once we gained more letters by adding the flipped letters ( vertical flips only, then horizontal flips only, then a combination of all) we can

1.run some deciphering checks through the new ciphertext
text with letters/ horizontal flips
text with letters/vertical flips
text with letters/horizontal and vertical flips
2.encode the new ciphertext via 408 key
text with letters/horizontal flips
text with letters/vertical flips
text with letters/horizontal and vertical flips

and see what we get. Please try the same thing and post your findings including your working progression.

-Nin

-Nin

rand, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:29 am

I notice further he flipped the N in Knife. This could be a coincidence or a clue. Clue for orientation of letters? Funny the writer uses small u’s in the 340. They will not resemble C’s when flipped 90 degrees for example. This may be an adfditional clue or coincidence.

The small u’s will resemble n’s when flipped upside down. Also notice on lines 5 and 8, the strange j looking figure become a numeral 1 — as in, I’m the one…:

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:14 pm

Yes, that is interesting, rand.

On another thought just for your attention, looking at the two 4 character strings:

It may or may not be a clue. None of the characters but the period in the right string follow a correct 90 degree turn. They all keep their original orientation.

1.The only letters in the original 340 following the same principle after a 90 degree turn are:
OX

if additionally considering C:
C changes to a general U

2.The only letters in the original 340 that follow the same principle if flipped upside down are:

BCDEHIKOX

if additionally considering M and W:

M changes to W
W changes to M

3.The only symbols in the 340 following the same principle after a 90 degree turn are:

the period
filled square
filled circle
crosshair symbol
plus sign
dotted circle
dotted square

4.The only symbols in the 340 following the same principle if flipped upside down are:

plus sign
crosshair symbol
<
>
O with a horizontal dash
O with a vertical dash
semi left filled circle
semi right filled circle
dotted circle
dash
dotted square
empty square
filled square

morf13, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:30 pm

Yes, that is interesting, rand.

On another thought just for your attention, looking at the two 4 character strings:

It may or may not be a clue. None of the characters but the period in the right string follow a correct 90 degree turn. They all keep their original orientation.

1.The only letters in the original 340 following the same principle after a 90 degree turn are:
OX

if additionally considering C:
C changes to a general U

2.The only letters in the original 340 that follow the same principle if flipped upside down are:

BCDEHIKOX

if additionally considering M and W:

M changes to W
W changes to M

3.The only symbols in the 340 following the same principle after a 90 degree turn are:

the period
filled square
filled circle
crosshair symbol
plus sign
dotted circle
dotted square

4.The only symbols in the 340 following the same principle if flipped upside down are:

plus sign
crosshair symbol
<
>
O with a horizontal dash
O with a vertical dash
semi left filled circle
semi right filled circle
dotted circle
dash
dotted square
empty square
filled square

What if the real message is in between the strings, and the rest of the cipher is garbage.

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:43 pm

..

What if the real message is in between the strings, and the rest of the cipher is garbage.

Possible. Very short ciphertext though, impossible to prove correct solution. You would have to "guess" the symbols. Letters only? Where would the ciphertext start and end?

-Nin

Jem, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:11 am

Nin, about the backwards N in KNIFE, the M in DOOMED on the Halloween Card looks like it’s a backwards N overlaid on a regular N. The two vertical lines of the M are spaced as they should be for an M, however. Why was the M drawn that way? Do you think it was intentional, as a clue perhaps? Or did Zodiac make a mistake while writing that M? Or possibly, the purpose was to draw attention to that letter because the word BOO runs into it, making it kind of appear to be BOOM.

This M on the card intrigues me and I’d appreciate your opinion on it. Thanks!

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:34 pm

Nin, about the backwards N in KNIFE, the M in DOOMED on the Halloween Card looks like it’s a backwards N overlaid on a regular N. The two vertical lines of the M are spaced as they should be for an M, however. Why was the M drawn that way? Do you think it was intentional, as a clue perhaps? Or did Zodiac make a mistake while writing that M? Or possibly, the purpose was to draw attention to that letter because the word BOO runs into it, making it kind of appear to be BOOM.

This M on the card intrigues me and I’d appreciate your opinion on it. Thanks!

The writer placed half of a regular N over a backwards drawn (painted) N eventually forming an M:

Quite intruiging detail, you are right to point it out. If it was done intentionally it could most likely be a clue, yes. If he messed up the N to begin with, same like he may have messed up the N in the BY knife ( but then he picks up a specific writing he placed on the cardoor from LB, so could be a clue in the end). I notice though that the inital N in ME seems smaller in size, the diagonal line going from the low left to the upper right starts a bit higher on the vertical stem. This could be an indication that once he messed it up, he corrected it while purposely letting it look like a clue, letting an equally large E following, ME. He may have then picked up the idea and flipped the N in the BY knife, just to be funny and to cover up his mistake.

So, yes, it could be a clue or yes, it could be a covered up mistake. In his mind he may have gone more elaborate to camouflage his mistake. Perhaps he was dyslectic. Throwing in intentional spelling mistakes and covering up spelling mistakes as clues are smart ways of distracting from the truth.

Don’t know about the BOO M.. The BOO!..you still have to deal with the E in ME. Also, the exclamation mark in BOO! rather makes it look like an ending ( like in bamboo) than missing the final letter. I believe that he is picking up the "PEEK -A-BOO", giving it a rather dramatic meaning.

But that’s just my thoughts.

-Nin

Jem, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:17 am

Thanks, Nin. It’s so much clearer in this enlargement. Looks kind of like he may have started to draw a K.

morf13, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:06 am

Nin, about the backwards N in KNIFE, the M in DOOMED on the Halloween Card looks like it’s a backwards N overlaid on a regular N. The two vertical lines of the M are spaced as they should be for an M, however. Why was the M drawn that way? Do you think it was intentional, as a clue perhaps? Or did Zodiac make a mistake while writing that M? Or possibly, the purpose was to draw attention to that letter because the word BOO runs into it, making it kind of appear to be BOOM.

This M on the card intrigues me and I’d appreciate your opinion on it. Thanks!

The writer placed half of a regular N over a backwards drawn (painted) N eventually forming an M:

Quite intruiging detail, you are right to point it out. If it was done intentionally it could most likely be a clue, yes. If he messed up the N to begin with, same like he may have messed up the N in the BY knife ( but then he picks up a specific writing he placed on the cardoor from LB, so could be a clue in the end). I notice though that the inital N in ME seems smaller in size, the diagonal line going from the low left to the upper right starts a bit higher on the vertical stem. This could be an indication that once he messed it up, he corrected it while purposely letting it look like a clue, letting an equally large E following, ME. He may have then picked up the idea and flipped the N in the BY knife, just to be funny and to cover up his mistake.

So, yes, it could be a clue or yes, it could be a covered up mistake. In his mind he may have gone more elaborate to camouflage his mistake. Perhaps he was dyslectic. Throwing in intentional spelling mistakes and covering up spelling mistakes as clues are smart ways of distracting from the truth.

Don’t know about the BOO M.. The BOO!..you still have to deal with the E in ME. Also, the exclamation mark in BOO! rather makes it look like an ending ( like in bamboo) than missing the final letter. I believe that he is picking up the "PEEK -A-BOO", giving it a rather dramatic meaning.

But that’s just my thoughts.

-Nin

Let me ask you…before, you thought it was ‘possible’, that Z was pointing to a name, TED, ED, etc. Upon this blown up or enhanced version, it actually looks like NED. Is that a possibility?
I checked for people named NED that have lived in Vallejo and were between 20 & 45 in 1969, and was surprised to find 5 or 6 different ones. I didnt think NED was a super common name. One of them lives or lived on the same street as LHR ‘witness" James Owen,another shares his birthday, and another one used two different last names The one that changed his name is interesting because in 1980, at the age of 51 or so, he was still using his old last name. By 1993, he was using a different name. Anyone know why an older guy like that would change his name that late in life?

EDIT>>>>>>>> Now the guy with 2 names apparently has 2 birthdays too….

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:23 am

I do not expect the writer to really reveal his "name" in the sense of legal name, not in the Halloweencard and not anywhere else. He might reveal a peculiar detail about his name ( one that only he knows what it means) or he might play with a nickname (ED? TED?) of him to go the furthest. It would have been rather risky to plant his real name anywhere. When he says that his identity is in the 408, he may allude to the attributes of his name, for example being of a certain descendence or being a "long" or "short" name. He would have gone out on a limb tp plant his legal ID.

He said he was "crackproof". In hindsight he actually was. It was always intruiging to me how he could be so sure to evade discovery. Not only in rergards to the unsolved ciphers, but in general.

-Nin

rand, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:37 am

I don’t think the eyes forms NED, ED, or TED. What must be taken into account is that the size of the eyes are different. There are large, medium, and small eyes. Z did this for a reason, I believe. When that’s taken into consideration, the eyes form a name, which I’ve posted elsewhere.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:53 am

The problem I have will all these types of theories is that they are so complex–or at least so not obvious. If any of these things were done, it was a personal thing for the writer. No way in hell would anyone figure out this stuff! Well, maybe 40 years later!

13 eyes…with a threat to Paul potentially being number 4-teen.

Is there more to it? Maybe. Exporing the possibility is good. I just tend to think they’re eyeballs.

morf13, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:29 pm

The problem I have will all these types of theories is that they are so complex–or at least so not obvious. If any of these things were done, it was a personal thing for the writer. No way in hell would anyone figure out this stuff! Well, maybe 40 years later!

13 eyes…with a threat to Paul potentially being number 4-teen.

Is there more to it? Maybe. Exporing the possibility is good. I just tend to think they’re eyeballs.

My personal opinion of the 13 eyes relates to a Pacific Heights murder that happened a day or two before the card was sent to AVery. A hooker was murdered and her eyes were cut out. There were no suspects initially, and the stroy appeared in the paper a day or two before Z sebt the card filled with eyeballs. I think since it happened in Pacific Heights, he wanted Avery to think he may be responsible for the murder. Soon, her pimp was arrested, so it definitely was not Z, but it wouldnt surprise me if Z wanted to take credit for that murder after he read about it. I forget the girl’s name that was murdered.

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:59 pm

The problem I have will all these types of theories is that they are so complex–or at least so not obvious. If any of these things were done, it was a personal thing for the writer. No way in hell would anyone figure out this stuff! Well, maybe 40 years later!

13 eyes…with a threat to Paul potentially being number 4-teen.

Is there more to it? Maybe. Exporing the possibility is good. I just tend to think they’re eyeballs.

He is playing a game. That’s his "thing".

-Nin

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:02 pm

I don’t think the eyes forms NED, ED, or TED. What must be taken into account is that the size of the eyes are different. There are large, medium, and small eyes. Z did this for a reason, I believe. When that’s taken into consideration, the eyes form a name, which I’ve posted elsewhere.

Prior to differing the size of the eyes he placed them in groups of 3-1-5-4. Don’t you C?

-Nin

rand, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:19 pm

Sure, I see
The skeleton, IMO, is configured in a clear "Y" position. Given the BY KNIFE, BY ROPE etc., I think the prominent B in the word "But" — which the skeleton’s right hand is pointing to — is significant. So with the B and the Y, you get BY. So BY whomever the person’s name is in the eyes.
I see a T at the top (so do you); an R in the middle (you see an E), one big eye for O, and then…I’ll let you guess the last letter.
BY TRO* and whatever you think that last letter is… We’re thinking along the same lines, I just see the eyes and the skeleton differently. The Y position is important in my view.

morf13, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:58 pm

Sure, I see
The skeleton, IMO, is configured in a clear "Y" position. Given the BY KNIFE, BY ROPE etc., I think the prominent B in the word "But" — which the skeleton’s right hand is pointing to — is significant. So with the B and the Y, you get BY. So BY whomever the person’s name is in the eyes.
I see a T at the top (so do you); an R in the middle (you see an E), one big eye for O, and then…I’ll let you guess the last letter.
BY TRO* and whatever you think that last letter is… We’re thinking along the same lines, I just see the eyes and the skeleton differently. The Y position is important in my view.

13 eyes, and the ‘MY NAME IS’ cipher has 13 spaces.

morf13, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:12 pm

NIN, how about MR. ED‘s??? (drive-in) Wasnt Darlene there the night she was killed? Didnt Mrs Your, one of the LHR witnesses work there? And if I am not mistaken, doesnt that place come up in other aspects of the Z case???

morf13, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:52 pm

I am in contact with a person that claims he got Zodiac’s name out of clues in the letters & ciphers. I asked him to join this forum, so that the very talented and smart cipher people here can see if there is any possibility that he is right. He gave me a name, and there is a person with that name that resembles the Z sketch and was a teacher. When he was in college in the mid 60’s, he lived in southern CA not too far from Riverside. Later on, he became a teacher. The one thing that seems to exclude him is that he seemed to be pretty tall, maybe as tall as Hartnell, and was on his basketball team. The guy’s name is nOT very common, and there may not be another one in CA! But again, how this person came up with his name, or if it is valid, I cant say.

He thinks the Zodiac’s first name is KEN, which made me think of NIN looking at words like ED/TED, etc

Jem, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:10 am

Morf, I believe that Ned is usually a nickname rather than a given name. For someone named Edward. Or possibly Frederick?, not sure about that, though. Of course, there are guys whose actual name is Ned. But probably more likely that a Ned’s real name is Edward. Also, I think using the nickname Ned for Edward was much more common in the past.

At least, that’s my experience based on guys I’ve known who went by the name Ned. So, back in Zodiac’s day, an Edward might use both Ed and Ned.

morf13, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:18 am

Morf, I believe that Ned is usually a nickname rather than a given name. For someone named Edward. Or possibly Frederick?, not sure about that, though. Of course, there are guys whose actual name is Ned. But probably more likely that a Ned’s real name is Edward. Also, I think using the nickname Ned for Edward was much more common in the past.

At least, that’s my experience based on guys I’ve known who went by the name Ned. So, back in Zodiac’s day, an Edward might use both Ed and Ned.

Good point. Here are the names that NED is a nickname for:

Edmund, Edward,

also…. "Ned is an English given name, short for Edward, Edmund, Edgar, or Edwin"

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:21 pm

..
I checked for people named NED that have lived in Vallejo and were between 20 & 45 in 1969, and was surprised to find 5 or 6 different ones. I didnt think NED was a super common name. One of them lives or lived on the same street as LHR ‘witness" James Owen,another shares his birthday, and another one used two different last names The one that changed his name is interesting because in 1980, at the age of 51 or so, he was still using his old last name. By 1993, he was using a different name. Anyone know why an older guy like that would change his name that late in life?

EDIT>>>>>>>> Now the guy with 2 names apparently has 2 birthdays too….

Just for fun, try also to look for a NED YOUNG in the Vallejo/Benicia area.

-Nin

StitchMallone, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:32 pm

Nin been following your work on this on the other boards also and long the lines you are thinking. I always thought take away the new characters in the 340 that didn’t appear in the 408 and they are filters and nulls. Kinda what you are doing without taking as much out of the 340. Then use the Harden code like you been doing.

Also you may be on the right track and think and that after you apply the Harden code this could be a Cesar cipher from there. Maybe a complex one where you go two letters forward then on the next letter maybe 4 back and etc. Also numbers that do that stick out to me from clues from dripping pen and Halloween cards are 6, 7, 13, 14. Say maybe go six forward on 1 letter maybe 7 back on the next, 13 forward on the next and etc and some variation of this.

Anyhow good luck and keep up the good work!

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:10 pm

Nin been following your work on this on the other boards also and long the lines you are thinking. I always thought take away the new characters in the 340 that didn’t appear in the 408 and they are filters and nulls. Kinda what you are doing without taking as much out of the 340. Then use the Harden code like you been doing.

Also you may be on the right track and think and that after you apply the Harden code this could be a Cesar cipher from there. Maybe a complex one where you go two letters forward then on the next letter maybe 4 back and etc. Also numbers that do that stick out to me from clues from dripping pen and Halloween cards are 6, 7, 13, 14. Say maybe go six forward on 1 letter maybe 7 back on the next, 13 forward on the next and etc and some variation of this.

Anyhow good luck and keep up the good work!

Thanks, Stitch, my friend. It does seem to work better as shift or keyed shift then vignere at this point. I am cruising around something that I have to run more iterations to understand.

-Nin

Nin, Subject: EENKM   Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:32 pm

Anyone ran into EENKM or has a clue what it could be? A name? Double encoded via 408 it would say EETSH or ( double value for N) EEESH.

-Nin

StitchMallone, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:22 pm

Thanks Nin and been using various of types of Cesar to the coded and decoded text but just coming up with gibberish. Also tried a Atbash to no avil. Still think you are on the right track though.

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:31 am

Thanks Nin and been using various of types of Cesar to the coded and decoded text but just coming up with gibberish. Also tried a Atbash to no avil. Still think you are on the right track though.

Stitch,

as I just posted in the intro thread http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com … hris#19076
so far I got " I SAW T …AS I.." in line 1. The combination 1-11-2-12-3-13 looks best for now. However, it may be that either I found a good key for line 1, but not for the rest. That could mean that all 6 lines have individual keys, perhaps derived from a phrase. For example "THIS IS THE ZODIAC SPEAKING" , THIS for line 1, IS for line 11, THE for line 2 and so on. Or the combination 1-11-2-12-3-13 isn’t correct. I found some more interesting stuff though. Will post soon. This is all mindboggling.

-Nin

morf13, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:20 am

Thanks Nin and been using various of types of Cesar to the coded and decoded text but just coming up with gibberish. Also tried a Atbash to no avil. Still think you are on the right track though.

Stitch,

as I just posted in the intro thread, so far I got " I SAW T …AS I.." in line 1. The combination 1-11-2-12-3-13 looks best for now. However, it may be that either I found a good key for line 1, but not for the rest. That could mean that all 6 lines have individual keys, perhaps derived from a phrase. For example "THIS IS THE ZODIAC SPEAKING" , THIS for line 1, IS for line 11, THE for line 2 and so on. Or the combination 1-11-2-12-3-13 isn’t correct. I found some more interesting stuff though. Will post soon. This is all mindboggling.

-Nin

Sounds good, cant wait to hear.

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:23 am

Look closer at lines 11 and 12 of the 340. In the 408 encoded version we find 2 more strings. They are not identical in sequence, but they are identical in characters. The location is very interesting:

340, original ciphertext

11.UREIDYBTMKO
12.RJITMBF

408 encoded

11.IGETNULOHSN
12.GFTOHLS

The strings (BTMK-TMBF in the original version/ LOHS-OHLS in the 408 encoded version) are located next to this middle part ORJI (original), NGFT (408 encoded):

3 letters of the middle part are elements of the 90 degree string I posted about before:

No clue if it means anything or not. One thing that comes to mind, if lines 17-19 were to give us the password (s)/ passphrase for lines 11- 13, then this could be a direct clue about the visual arrangement of either the lines or the password(s) / passphrase. (What really comes to mind now is the xerox from the EUREKA card with the 2 keys. This may be a clue to use 2 keys. The 408 encoding would then not be one of the 2 keys, it would just be something Zodiac provided us from the beginning with.)

-Nin

morf13, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:34 am

Look closer at lines 11 and 12 of the 340. In the 408 encoded version we find 2 more strings. They are not identical in sequence, but they are identical in characters. The location is very interesting:

340, original ciphertext

11.UREIDYBTMKO
12.RJITMBF

408 encoded

11.IGETNULOHSN
12.GFTOHLS

The strings (BTMK-TMBF in the original version/ LOHS-OHLS in the 408 encoded version) are located next to this middle part ORJI (original), NGFT (408 encoded):

3 letters of the middle part are elements of the 90 degree string I posted about before:

No clue if it means anything or not. One thing that comes to mind, if lines 17-19 were to give us the password (s)/ passphrase for lines 11- 13, then this could be a direct clue about the visual arrangement of either the lines or the password(s) / passphrase. (What really comes to mind now is the xerox from the EUREKA card with the 2 keys. This may be a clue to use 2 keys. The 408 encoding would then not be one of the 2 keys, it would just be something Zodiac provided us from the beginning with.)

-Nin

So do you think Z was giving the same clues, or message in both ciphers??? Pretty interesting. Maybe thats where the best clues are to Zodiac’s ID.

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:08 am

..
So do you think Z was giving the same clues, or message in both ciphers??? Pretty interesting. Maybe thats where the best clues are to Zodiac’s ID.

I really don’t know. I have been working on an attempt to decode the 340 based on a master code found in the 408 by another poster. A very slow and cumbersome process. Back then a poster on Z.com introduced his concept and even sent it to the FBI. He was by the way the only other person I know who claimed Zodiac was also responsible for the Ramsey case. The other inividual raising the same claim by the way is John Cameron (ret. LE, works as analyst now writing evaluations for Montana parole board), who believes Ed Edwards was responsible for the Zodiac killings.

-Nin

morf13, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:06 am

NIN, any progress on your code work??? Keep plugging away.

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:06 pm

.. Keep plugging away.

24/7 :affraid:

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:15 am

NIN has looked at the Zodiac My Name Is Code as perhaps being a CLUE on how to solve the Zodiac 340, with a possible find of "POLISH NAME" or "MY NAME IS POLISH."

Now look what KITE and I have been cooking up…"THEO" discussed here and as found in the 340 3rd line only means Greek for God.

KITE (Edited BY AK Wilks): I’m wondering now if the April 20, 1970 My Name Is… code was, in part, meant to call attention or otherwise allude to the Line 3 possible cryptic in the 340 cipher? Look at the similarities: Both are 13 letters:

AEN+(8K8M8)^NAM (+ for Zodiac symbol and ^ for the Aries symbol)
ILUEHS(THEO)LHS

You can look at one as built around the 8K8M8 and the other around THEO.

8+8+8=24 and K+M=24. 8+8+8+K+M=48 THEO=48 (20+8+5+15)(Number for letters in THEO)

Look at the letters from 4/20/70 and the letters from Line 3 (Not counting THEO):

AAEKNNMM
EHHILLSSU

[Also look at this:

AA NN MM E K
LL HH SS E I

– AK]

And look at the letters broken in sections of before, in, and after the center:

AEN KM NAM
ILUEHS LHS

Notice how NAM are repeats from the five before and LHS are also repeats from the six before it.

One is: MY NAME IS….AEN+8K8M8^NAM
One is: ILUEHSTHEOLHS….SEE A NAME

The following comparison is possibly the most compelling of all: On the right, a breakdown of the 13 symbols from the My Name Is Code. The 13 from Line 3 of the 340 cipher on the left.

HHH…..888
LL…….AA
EE…….NN
SS…….MM
U………E
T………K
O………^ Aries Symbol
I……….+ Zodiac Symbol

Looks like a match. And the HHH=888 is a number for letter match additionally, no pun intended. H is the 8th letter of the alphabet.

AK WILKS:

FRICKIN AMAZING!!!

A poster named NIN has been working on a possible MyNameIs/340 tie in, and came up with the possible clue of POLISH NAME.

The 1986 Graysmith Raw Solution has a 4th line asking the questions SEE A NAME.

On the 3rd line we have THEO, with 9 letters surrounding it.

Zodiac asks "BY THE WAY HAVE YOU CRACKED THE LAST CIPHER I SENT YOU?". Zodiac is of course refering to the 340. He then gives us a clue how to solve the 340, he says "MY NAME IS" then gives us the code. By telling us his 13 letter NAME, he is calling attention to the 4th line in the 340 which asks SEE A NAME, and the 13 letters that preceeded it.

There does seem to be a strong match between the 13 symbols Zodiac gives us in April of 1970 and the Graysmith solution to the 340, more evidence that the much maligned Graysmith solution is largely or at least partially correct.

Both the My Name Is Code and the Graysmith 340 3rd line have:

One set of triples
Three sets of doubles
Four singles

Coincidence?

Lets look further:

HHH…..888 (MATCH as H is 8th letter in alphabet)
LL…….AA (+15 shifts)
EE…….NN (+9 shifts)
SS…….MM (-6 shifts)
U………E (+10 shifts)
T………K (-9 shifts)
O………^ Aries Symbol (In the 408 virtually the same symbol translates to an O)
I……….+ Zodiac Symbol (The Zodiac Symbol Is "I" to the Zodiac)

————————————————

Zodiac My Name Is Code:

A E N + … 8 K 8 M 8 ^ … N A M

Zodiac 340 Graysmith 3rd Line:

I L U E … H S T H E O … L H S

——————————————–

Graysmith 3rd line of Zodiac 340
Zodiac My Name Is
Kite Decode of Zodiac My Name Is To Graysmith 3rd Line

I L U E … H S T H E O … L H S
A E N + … 8 K 8 M 8 ^ … N A M
L U E I ….H T H S H O … E L S

Nin, Subject: STRING   Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:48 pm

In repeatedly checking out the significance -if any- of the RJI hook, I am coming to the following possible conclusions:

1. The first "hook", RJI divided square, is only of significance because our eyes make as see something that was not intended to appear like that.

2. The second "hook", reverse B dot reverse C v, is only of significance because our eyes make as see something that was not intended to appear like that.

3. Both hooks have no meaning because our eyes make as see something that was not intended to appear like that.

4. Both hooks are pointing to the fact that they were intentionally planted. The intention was to hide information in one or both hooks. The author purposely positioned the hooks in a way they would be spotted. In order to retrieve the information hiding in one or both hooks you will need to have knowledge of an underlying cipher key.

What chose you?

Nin, Subject: Hooked..   Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:39 pm

Naturally, there was a reason for my question. David (Oranchack), can you please express in a mathematical way ( I saw you did it on zfacts), what the chances are for the strings to appear as they did?

Thanks, Nin

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:59 am

Naturally, there was a reason for my question. David (Oranchack), can you please express in a mathematical way ( I saw you did it on zfacts), what the chances are for the strings to appear as they did?

Thanks, Nin

Okay, I found the post at Zfacts:

http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=21758#p21758

David wrote:

I finally gave in to my long-standing curiosity about this, and wrote an experiment.

A better test might be to create randomized VALID substitution ciphers and see how it affects the probability.

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:10 pm

So if these pivots are low to occur by chance, question is what is the intention of creating them? Are they significant by themselves? Or are they intended to point to an area that may be defind by the length of the arms of the n-gram pivots, something like this. Yellow frames show repeats:

Straight lettters from the first square: Z R V J E I R J I

Symbols and reversed letters from the first square: rev B, + +, flippedV, filledO , flippedT, half filled square

Pivot point: half filled square

Straight lettters from the second square: Y B T M F B V

Symbols and reversed letters from the fsecond square: 9 or revP, half filledO, period, filledO, revC, flippedB ,period revC

Pivot point: V

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:23 pm

When I started to post my thread I clearly stated that there may be a relation between the MYNAMEIS cipher and the 340, the MYNAMEIS cipher possible being a keyword to unlock a certain part of the 340 (only considering straight ascii letters, using the 408 substitutiuon key "in reverse"). In this connection I pointed to the OTSELTTEEINATOTSEL sequence and noticed the similarities between this sequence and the MYNAMEISCIPHER regarding symmetry and golden ratio of its components.

Furthermore I posted that the OTSEL sequence (combined or based on the MYNAMEIS cipher) may be the keyphrase to then unlock lines 1-3 and 11-13 – or a combination thereof- of the 340.

Having run many iterations with the MYNAMEIS cipher, the OTSEL sequence and permutations of lines 1-3,11-13 I did not find anything of definite relevance yet.

The "hooks" kept cruising in my mind and once that David posted on the probablilities for them to occur like they do in the 340, I went back to the MYNAMEISCIPHER and compared it to the hooks. Here is what I found. I hesitated to post this. It looks like I am trying to prove a certain poi was the Zodiac. However, the following steps are exactly that, steps that developed during hours of check and recheck. It might all be a coincidence, but I decided to share it with you.

The MYNAMEISCIPHER consists of 3 (straight) ascii letters (AEN), then 2 symbols (cross hair,8 or taurus), then one straight ascii letter (K), then one symbol ( 8 or taurus), then one straight ascii letter (M), then one symbol (8 or taurus), then the "anchor", then r (straight) ascii letters (NAM)

The "hooks":

What always bothered me with the MYNAMEIS cipher is the introduction of the new symbols, accounting for a total of 4 characters. 8 letters plus the crosshair symbol versus 4 new symbols. The writer knew that any short "cipher" like that is unsolvable because unprovable. He either sent us a nothing and the 340 is a nothing or he sent us a hint, a code,someting that may unlock the 340 or parts thereof.

While I am still looking for the MYNAMEIS cipher to deliver a possible key, I am considering an additional possibility. Something a person who is not well educated with ciphers may do.

Take a look at the MYNAMEIS cipher. What if the "middel part" was only created to throw you off. All the new symbols are located in this area here:

If you compare the outer parts (kinda like the OTSEL….OTSEL concept, isn’t it ..) of the MYNAMEIS cipher with the hooks, you will notice the pivoted n-grams consist of 3 characters and a pivot point. The outer parts of the MYNAMEIS cipher also consists of 3 characters, AEN and NAM.

When you arrange the AEN and the NAM in an angle, similar to the hooks, you get:

When you apply Zodiacs 408 key and decipher AEN, you get WEE or WET, based on the double value of N. If we settle in N=T something peculiar happens. You read the “hook” the same way it is displayed in the 340. Starting point is left on the horizontal arm and up on the vertical arm:

WETMAN

Kinda funny if you have a POI with the name of DRYMAN! It gets even funnier:

Frank Dryman’s inmate number in Deer Lodge Penitentiary was # 17 18 8. In the mugshot you see spacing between 17, 18 and the 8. Expressed in letter value you get QRH. Q for 17, R for 18, and H for 8.

QRH deciphered via 408 key is FGT. F for Q, G for R, and T for H.

The RJI “hook” in the 340 ciphertext deciphers to GFT via 408 key. Compare FGT to GFT.

# 17 18 8 according to mugshot

# 18 17 8 as found in “hook”

Not the same number, but incredibly close, just one flipped number. In the 340, the second “hook” basically flips the letters in the pivoted n-gram.

Inmates get “dehumanized” by getting a number they go by rather than a name. So, MY NAME IS possibly Zodiac’s inmate number? I would certainly be more supportive of this theory, if the numbers were not flipped. And yet, strange it is. What a humor it would be, Dryman calling from a booth located between a carwash and a Chinese laundry. He certainly went from a Dryman to being a Wetman..

Cheers,
Nin

morf13, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:53 am

Very interesting NIN, keep plugging away at it.

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:47 pm

Another possibility:

The hooks may only be there to raise attention. Zodiac sends the MYNAMEIS cipher to hint to a particular area in the 340.

The MYNAMEIS cipher is created in this sequence regarding true letters and symbols:

3 letters – 2 symbols- 1 letter- 1 symbol- 1 letter-2 symbols- 3 letters

3-2-1-1-1-2-3

This line, which partially contains the first hook and which runs through the vertical arm of the second hook, is similar constructed like the MYNAMEIS cipher. However, the filled P changes the sequence:

3 letters – 2 symbols -1 letter – 1 symbol – 1 letter – 2 symbols- filled P plus 2 letters

3-2-1-1-1-2-3 (1+2)

I thought I share that with you.

-Nin

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:23 pm

We can also search for a direct copy of the MYNAME is cipher around the hook area or somewhere else. The MYNAMEIS cipher is constructed of letters (L) and symbols(S). Letters and symbols are listed in the way they appear or repeat:

LLL – SS – L – S – L – SS – LLL

L1 L2 L3 – S1 S2 – L4 – S2 – L5 -S2 S3 – L3 L1 L5

-Nin

Nin, Subject: Re: THE BREAKTHROUGH ?   Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:22 am

Don’t know if it has any meaning. Thought I post it anyway:

symbol frequency for the hooks RJI halffilled square and reverseB dot reverse C V

R-8
J-4
I-10
square-6

rev.B-3
dot-6
rev.C-10
v-6

8-4-10-6
3-6-10-6

When expressed in letter value:

H-D-J-F
C-F-J-F