I doubt this is significant in any way, but:

In the pictures of the watch found at the Cheri jo bates crime scene where the watch appears to be on the ground at the scene, the hands of the watch are set to 9:07.

Yet in another picture where the watch has a card placed next to it for a size indicator the hands are set 12:24…

Did someone change the position of the hands of the watch after the fact?

If so, why?

I don’t think RPD has ever said one way or the other, I believe the watch was still running when it was photographed at the
crime scene at 9:07 am and then photographed again at the police station after it wound down and stopped.

Possibly a self-winding watch. Just moving it around would wind it back up.

Possibly a self-winding watch. Just moving it around would wind it back up.

I doubt it, it looks like an old fashioned manual wind up watch.

Possibly a self-winding watch. Just moving it around would wind it back up.

I doubt it, it looks like an old fashioned manual wind up watch.

Possibly is a stem winder, but you can’t tell by looking.

The watch read 9.07 when photographed at the crime scene, and 12.23 when taken into evidence. There is nothing to support the fact, that the watch ever stopped.

The watch read 9.07 when photographed at the crime scene, and 12.23 when taken into evidence. There is nothing to support the fact, that the watch ever stopped.

Not sure it matters much since it wasn’t found until the next morning. As you note, the 9:07 photo is obviously taken where the watch was found at the crime scene. The 12:23 photo, judging by the background, was probably taken later at the police station as it was logged into evidence.

I’m not sure we can be certain it had stopped running at 12:23. I mean, I suppose it could have still been running when that photo was taken. Maybe it was officially noted, I do not know either way, just suggesting the possibility.

The only value I see in the time on the watch would be, if it did indeed stop at 12:23, or whatever time it actually stopped, you determine how long that model watch would run on a winding. Might help tell when it was last wound and help narrow down the exact time of the attack.

The watch read 9.07 when photographed at the crime scene, and 12.23 when taken into evidence. There is nothing to support the fact, that the watch ever stopped.

Not sure it matters much since it wasn’t found until the next morning. As you note, the 9:07 photo is obviously taken where the watch was found at the crime scene. The 12:23 photo, judging by the background, was probably taken later at the police station as it was logged into evidence.

I’m not sure we can be certain it had stopped running at 12:23. I mean, I suppose it could have still been running when that photo was taken. Maybe it was officially noted, I do not know either way, just suggesting the possibility.

The only value I see in the time on the watch would be, if it did indeed stop at 12:23, or whatever time it actually stopped, you determine how long that model watch would run on a winding. Might help tell when it was last wound and help narrow down the exact time of the attack.

According to what I read on the internet those old wind-up watches would run for 24-36 hours before it needs to be rewound.

Wow. Thank you guys tons. Very informative.

I had mistakenly assumed that the watch had stopped during the struggle.

Yeah, if the watch had not stopped running, and if the watch was found at 9:07 and photographed at 12:24, then this would make perfect sense.

Thank you for all your input. It is much appreciated.

I still think it’s possible that watch originally belonged to John Swindle. I’m not sure if that has been looked into. It’s my understanding the watch at the CJB scene had paint on it. Quite a coincidence Swindle’s watch was taken and he had been painting before it happened.

According to what I read on the internet those old wind-up watches would run for 24-36 hours before it needs to be rewound.

That would make the time rather useless then.

The one thing the watch does tell us, is that it was likely ripped from the assailant’s wrist early in the attack, as it has never been stated that blood was discovered on any part of the watch. It played no part in the 1999 DNA testing, according to the released documents, which is unusual, as it could potentially have contained residual DNA from the suspect, not only from a standpoint of contact with the victims wrist, but Cheri Jo Bates may have scratched the perpetrator’s wrist causing a transfer of blood residue. Cheri Jo Bates had an extremely rare blood group, so distinguishing any transfer using blood typing would not have been difficult.

The one thing the watch does tell us, is that it was likely ripped from the assailant’s wrist early in the attack, as it has never been stated that blood was discovered on any part of the watch. It played no part in the 1999 DNA testing, according to the released documents, which is unusual, as it could potentially have contained residual DNA from the suspect, not only from a standpoint of contact with the victims wrist, but Cheri Jo Bates may have scratched the perpetrator’s wrist causing a transfer of blood residue. Cheri Jo Bates had an extremely rare blood group, so distinguishing any transfer using blood typing would not have been difficult.

They did get DNA off the watch (confirmed to me by Kenneth Mains) in this last round of testing. All he could tell me is that it wasn’t Cheri’s. Let’s just hope the cops used gloves.

Was there any DNA obtained from the "cigarette butt" mentioned in the papers from the FBI?

Was this cigarette butt conclusively a part of the crime scene? Or might it just happened to have been where the crime was committed?

(The FBI File copies that were sent to me were poor quality and difficult to read, I am having higher quality copies being sent to me, I also have paper copies of the zodiac related put lice and FBI files being mailed to me, but until then I have to work with what I have)

Supposedly, there was a female walking through the alleyway at 9.30 pm, where she spotted a male smoking a cigarette. Being approximately one hour before the screams and possible murder, they obviously would have taken any cigarette butt as valuable evidence, hence it was retrieved. In 1999 it was tested for DNA and yielded a concentration of 0.003 nanograms per microliter. If this female eyewitness was accurate, then this sighting was the last before screams were heard coming from the alleyway, and therefore a credible person of interest in the murder of Cheri Jo Bates. The question is, could forensics separate the sample from the hair at the base of the victim’s right thumb, from DNA retrieved from the cigarette butt.
Whether the cigarette butt originated from the male observed is another matter, but there must have been priority given to any cigarette butt’s near the crime scene, that looked fresh, and still possibly harbored certain quantities of salivary amylase, which is also useful regarding secretors and non-secretors.