This thread I am creating with the specific intent to elicit speculation from any members that decide to take part so, if anyone’s itching to jump onto this thread declaring "Pure speculation, no evidence, no way of knowing" I will say in advance, that that is my intension, to ask people’s personal opinions on where Paul’s personal property is.
Simple question, one which has no definitive answer as it’s not possible to see the future (despite what John Edward claims) so I am just curious, do we think that one day down the line that Paul’s Licence will be discovered, or is it likely never going to surface and gone forever, destroyed by Zodiac at some point post Oct 11?
And even if it still out there somewhere, and some unsuspecting removal man discovers the Driver Licence after it fall’s out of the desk drawer he’s been employed to move from the home of recently deceased Mr John Doe, how likely is it going to be that the removal guy will recognise the name and Photo as belonging to a man murdered in Pacific Heights back in 69 by a serial killer that is still faceless and nameless? My own opinion is that the removal man would likely have no idea what he held in his hands and simply rationalise that whoever’s it is, it’s no use to anyone now and pointless in handing it in because it has a date of issue going back to the late 60’s. Throw it away as useless and insignificant would be the likely result.
Then if we have a scenario where Brother A perishes and Brother B is gathering up Brother A’s belongings from his home and in doing so comes across the licence and instantly is aware of who Paul Stine was, what became of him, and the means of which he met his demise, would that Brother do the right thing and turn it over to Law Enforcement and in doing so, give up his recently deceased loved one as a maniac serial killer….Or would he just keep quiet?
Answers can be sent to ‘Speculation-That’s-Us.co.uk’ 
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
I think it’s likely that Brother B would do the right thing in your scenario, WC, but I also think it is very likely that the name Paul Stine would not be recognized by 98% of people today, even in California. Brother B might find it odd that Brother A had some other guy’s driver’s license in his possession and then toss it in the trash can with the rest of his junk.
I would think the most likely scenario, if it ever were to turn up, would be that Zodiac locked Stine’s belongings away in a safe deposit box (or art collage 
) to be found as a posthumous confession. We can hope, of course, that Z decides to follow BTK’s lead and find closure by mailing back souvenirs but I just don’t see that happening at this point.
I think it’s likely that Brother B would do the right thing in your scenario, WC, but I also think it is very likely that the name Paul Stine would not be recognized by 98% of people today, even in California. Brother B might find it odd that Brother A had some other guy’s driver’s license in his possession and then toss it in the trash can with the rest of his junk.
I would think the most likely scenario, if it ever were to turn up, would be that Zodiac locked Stine’s belongings away in a safe deposit box (or art collage
Well BTK didn’t resurface without provocation. He hadn’t been heard from in a long time and police privately though there was a better than average chance he was alive and well still living in Kansas. A behavioural profiler advised them that if they wished to prompt BTK out of hiding and write another letter then the best chance of getting him to respond, the profiler said, was to call a press conference and announce "We believe BTK is deceased. He has not been heard from for a long time, nor have any murders been committed with his MO and it is for this reason, we announce that the case is going to be officially closed as the suspect is, we believe, dead."
The intent on LE part is clear in that statement, they are telling the City to forget the term BTK, he’s old news, and is not a risk anymore as we police believe he’s dead. BTK’s ego won’t stand for anyone trying to shelve his case one the ‘Cold Case Files’ shelf. But the part that plays to his ego more so than that is the claim that Police made in A Live Press Conference that ‘BTK is dead.’ To him that’s no different to being told "Everyone will no forget about you because everyone believes your dead.
If Zodiac hadn’t moved on to ‘Paradice’ yet and is still among the living and a similar tactic was attempted to try and flush him out by playing to his inflated ego and narcissism, I would have little to no confidence what-so-ever that it would see similar results. That’s what sets him so far apart from the other serial killers, he simply went from an attention seeking media whore who would stop at nothing to make the front page of the Chronicle to, almost overnight, deciding "I shall no longer announce to anyone when I commit my murders…"
But, back to Paul’s Licence. Let’s leave aside the question of "where he put the Licence, Keys and Wallet?" I want to know why he took them at all in the first place? Zodiac, the Trophy Killer? Not at Lake Berryessa two weeks earlier, Bryan handed Z his car keys and his Wallet before Z attacked and after Z had completed his frenzied attack, he simply showed absolutely no interest in the keys, wallet or any other items to take away as a keep sake. And yet, we are supposed to believe that two weeks later he takes Paul’s Keys, Wallet, Licence and quite literally, the shirt off his back?
Doesn’t make sense to me, he’s not going to take time to rummage around the cab for the keys and wallet etc, only to burn them the next day surely? There has to be a reson he took them, be it rational or delusional, but again, why? He doesn’t at Lake B and shows no interest at all in Bryan’s and Cecelia’s belongings.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
There are only two possibilities. Zodiac destroyed the keys, wallet and license or he did not.
I think he may have kept them for a long time somewhere safely hidden from prying eyes. If not destroyed, they could still be hidden in the same place or he may have moved them if he moved over the years (which he most likely did).
If he did not destroy them, he may have discarded them somehow. He could have duped a friend by leaving his headband at their residence after he was there visiting, for example. Later, when the friend found the headband (by this I mean the strap that held his glasses on) and told him he’d forgotten it, he may have said something along the lines that the friend could keep it as they might need it and he had another or could always get one.
There are many ways he could have discarded any evidence. One that occurs to me is the possibility he returned to the scene of the crime at Lake Berryessa and simply tossed items overboard as he was out on a boat.
Does anyone know if this Lake has ever been searched with the technology available today?
There are so many waterways in the area that he could have used to dispose of evidence including the San Francisco Bay!
Just an FYI, Chappie, Wichita P.D. did make attempts to engage BTK but his resurfacing in 2004 had nothing to do with their attempts to draw him out. BTK responded to Wichita lawyer, Robert Beattie’s, public appearances while working on a book about the subject around the 30 year anniversary of the Otero murders in 1974. If WPD ever gave the impression that he was deceased, I honestly think it was out of wishful thinking and/or a desire to make the public believe that was the case rather than a purposeful attempt to draw him out of hiding. They knew he was still in the area at least until the early 1990s, still taunting and very possibly still killing. I wholly believe that they knew this and made a conscious decision NOT to inform the public about it, which borders on irresponsible, IMHO.
But, back to Paul’s Licence. Let’s leave aside the question of "where he put the Licence, Keys and Wallet?" I want to know why he took them at all in the first place? Zodiac, the Trophy Killer? Not at Lake Berryessa two weeks earlier, Bryan handed Z his car keys and his Wallet before Z attacked and after Z had completed his frenzied attack, he simply showed absolutely no interest in the keys, wallet or any other items to take away as a keep sake. And yet, we are supposed to believe that two weeks later he takes Paul’s Keys, Wallet, Licence and quite literally, the shirt off his back?
I think he may have taken all these items for the same reason – to have something irrefutable to enclose with his next missive to the papers. He used the shirt swatch to this end, as we know – perhaps he intended to use the other items in a similar fashion later. But for whatever reason he lost interest in this idea – much of what he did seems at least partly impulsive, not to say random.
Just an FYI, Chappie, Wichita P.D. did make attempts to engage BTK but his resurfacing in 2004 had nothing to do with their attempts to draw him out. BTK responded to Wichita lawyer, Robert Beattie’s, public appearances while working on a book about the subject around the 30 year anniversary of the Otero murders in 1974. If WPD ever gave the impression that he was deceased, I honestly think it was out of wishful thinking and/or a desire to make the public believe that was the case rather than a purposeful attempt to draw him out of hiding. They knew he was still in the area at least until the early 1990s, still taunting and very possibly still killing. I wholly believe that they knew this and made a conscious decision NOT to inform the public about it, which borders on irresponsible, IMHO.
Yes, and the author of the book stated in a press conference that he’s writing the book now because he believes BTK is no longer alive.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
I’m thinking that Zodiac kept the license along with the shirt for some time after the murder along with the costume and who knows what else from other murders.
Over time however and as he aged and who knows what his life circumstances were, I think he would have disposed of any and all evidence that could possibly connect him to these horrible events.
If for example, he’d had a problem with drugs, it is conceivable that he went to a rehabilitation program either voluntarily or otherwise and once off drugs, realized the horror of his actions. He may have come to his senses or if he was suffering from something such as Multiple Personality Disorder, received psychiatric treatment and was able to function and his last murder may have been that of symbolically "killing" the Zodiac persona which included his getting rid of any souvenirs he’d kept.
If Zodiac got rid of evidence, I think he would have made sure it would never be found or if found, it would not be implicate him. He may have burned it or tossed it in various places around the USA, especially if he travelled as he seemed to do.
Does anyone know if Tom Voigt ever released the big news he had regarding a letter written by Z to the DMV? It was thought it may pertain to Paul’s license.
Nothing yet on the DMV stuff Capricorn.
I tend to think people like Zodiac think they are so smart they will never get caught. That Naso creep comes to mind. He kept many things from years and years ago that linked him to his murders.
It wouldn’t surprise me a bit if Zodiac kept some things. Especially a scrapbook of newspaper clippings.
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
Thanks, Tahoe. What do you think is the problem with the DMV if there really is anything to release? Why would it take all this time? I’m starting to think this is a red herring designed to keep the activity on his website up. It has been ages since I read that and the way the ‘news’ was written made one think it was going to be any minute.
What do you think is the problem with the DMV if there really is anything to release? Why would it take all this time? I’m starting to think this is a red herring designed to keep the activity on his website up. It has been ages since I read that and the way the ‘news’ was written made one think it was going to be any minute.
To my knowledge, information has been shared freely on this site as soon as it is received or has become available. That information has also been shared freely with other Zodiac websites. No one is making money off of this website, including the gentleman who runs it, so there isn’t anything to gain by "keeping activity on his website up." The case is 45 years old, so any "new" information is generally hard to come by. A lot of materials requested from LE et al has simply been denied, sometimes with a wholly unacceptable explanation. There are some awesome researchers on this forum (the mod’s in particular) who have provided excellent material over the years, however, I encourage everyone to at least take a stab at uncovering something new. It can be extremely frustrating, but rewarding.
Edit: Just realized you were referring to Tom’s site and not this one. Sorry for my confusion. Tom’s been accused of that in the past, but I really don’t know one way or the other. I would like to think that empty promises would eventually drive people away rather than drive up site traffic.
