Ironic isn’t it? Officer’s Don Fouke & Eric Zelms respond to a report of a ‘shooting at Washington & Cherry Streets’. Approaching an intersection just arond the corner from the crime scene, the Officers spot a White Male walking down the hill on Jackson Street. (Depending on weather you believe Officer Pelissetti’s account, and also Zodiac’s claim.) Fouke slows his Cruiser to a stop, and Eric calls to the white male on his side of the street’s sidewalk, the man approaches Eric and a short discussion takes places in which Zelms asks ‘Have you seen anyone suspicious in the area in the last 5 or 10 mins? The man tells Eric he had just seen a man running with a gun and points in a direction. Eric doesn’t know it at the time, but he’s jst been face to face with the most dangerous man in California…Zodiac! The helpful citizen was helpfully directing them, along with their attention and suspicion, away from himself and up the hill toward Cherry Street. And that is the Irony. He is the only man that ever encountered a man we know was the Zodiac face to face, the most dangerous, unpredictable and vicious man that walked the streets of San Francisco, and walk away from that encounter totally unharmed. Then just 3 Months later, while responding to a routine burglary call, gets ambushed by a few petty scumbags who wrestle Zealm’s own gun away from him and use it to kill him.

I really do wish, not for anyone elses sake other than his own, that Eric had stopped and not just spoke with the man on the sidewalk that night on Jackson St, but got out and searched him, discovered the items Zodiac would have had such as the murder weapon, Blood soaked shirt, Cab Ignition key and Stine’s Wallet and then arrested Zodiac at gun point there and then outside 3712 Jackson Street on the sidewalk. Knowing now that he would be gunned down only 12 weeks after encountering Zodiac, I wish, for him, he’d could have been remembered for being the SFPD Officer that captured the Zodiac Serial Killer. If it hadn’t have been for an error by the dispatcher alerting all untits to BOTL for a Black Make Adult as the suspect, Zealms, the Rockie Cop with hardly any experience, may have taken down the most wanted man in the State of California.

In one sense, Zelms is probably responsible for Zodiac not killing again in San Francisco. After his encounter with Zelms, there was never another confirmed attack carried out by Zodiac. I have always thought Zodiac went underground after Paul Stine’s murder due to the extreme fear and panic that he felt when Zelms rolled up next to him on Jackson St that night.

Would have been an interesting scenerio had Zelms realized that could have been Paul’s killer!

But, if Zodiac were really concernced about being seen, he didn’t have to take credit for it.

Ironic isn’t it? Officer’s Don Fouke & Eric Zelms respond to a report of a ‘shooting at Washington & Cherry Streets’. Approaching an intersection just arond the corner from the crime scene, the Officers spot a White Male walking down the hill on Jackson Street. (Depending on weather you believe Officer Pelissetti’s account, and also Zodiac’s claim.) Fouke slows his Cruiser to a stop, and Eric calls to the white male on his side of the street’s sidewalk, the man approaches Eric and a short discussion takes places in which Zelms asks ‘Have you seen anyone suspicious in the area in the last 5 or 10 mins? The man tells Eric he had just seen a man running with a gun and points in a direction. Eric doesn’t know it at the time, but he’s jst been face to face with the most dangerous man in California…Zodiac! The helpful citizen was helpfully directing them, along with their attention and suspicion, away from himself and up the hill toward Cherry Street. And that is the Irony. He is the only man that ever encountered a man we know was the Zodiac face to face, the most dangerous, unpredictable and vicious man that walked the streets of San Francisco, and walk away from that encounter totally unharmed. Then just 3 Months later, while responding to a routine burglary call, gets ambushed by a few petty scumbags who wrestle Zealm’s own gun away from him and use it to kill him.

I really do wish, not for anyone elses sake other than his own, that Eric had stopped and not just spoke with the man on the sidewalk that night on Jackson St, but got out and searched him, discovered the items Zodiac would have had such as the murder weapon, Blood soaked shirt, Cab Ignition key and Stine’s Wallet and then arrested Zodiac at gun point there and then outside 3712 Jackson Street on the sidewalk. Knowing now that he would be gunned down only 12 weeks after encountering Zodiac, I wish, for him, he’d could have been remembered for being the SFPD Officer that captured the Zodiac Serial Killer. If it hadn’t have been for an error by the dispatcher alerting all untits to BOTL for a Black Make Adult as the suspect, Zealms, the Rockie Cop with hardly any experience, may have taken down the most wanted man in the State of California.

In one sense, Zelms is probably responsible for Zodiac not killing again in San Francisco. After his encounter with Zelms, there was never another confirmed attack carried out by Zodiac. I have always thought Zodiac went underground after Paul Stine’s murder due to the extreme fear and panic that he felt when Zelms rolled up next to him on Jackson St that night.

Funnily enough I have always leant towards that view myself that getting away from the Stine murder by the skin of his teeth led him to go underground.For all his bravado I think his "arse fell off" (to use a quaint saying we have in the North of England!) and led him to seriously consider what he was doing.I think up to this point he thought he was untouchable hence the completely different style of attack compared to the earlier attacks on couples.

Ironic isn’t it? Officer’s Don Fouke & Eric Zelms respond to a report of a ‘shooting at Washington & Cherry Streets’. Approaching an intersection just arond the corner from the crime scene, the Officers spot a White Male walking down the hill on Jackson Street. (Depending on weather you believe Officer Pelissetti’s account, and also Zodiac’s claim.) Fouke slows his Cruiser to a stop, and Eric calls to the white male on his side of the street’s sidewalk, the man approaches Eric and a short discussion takes places in which Zelms asks ‘Have you seen anyone suspicious in the area in the last 5 or 10 mins? The man tells Eric he had just seen a man running with a gun and points in a direction. Eric doesn’t know it at the time, but he’s just been face to face with the most dangerous man in California…Zodiac!

This is nicely written WC – but what confirms it happened? Nothing.
The irony for me is that this was written in a letter by an anonymous someone – and it’s suddenly fact. People like to believe it, for some reason. Phooey.
(It’s "whether" – not "weather", btw. The whether is always good in California.)

Ironic isn’t it? Officer’s Don Fouke & Eric Zelms respond to a report of a ‘shooting at Washington & Cherry Streets’. Approaching an intersection just arond the corner from the crime scene, the Officers spot a White Male walking down the hill on Jackson Street. (Depending on weather you believe Officer Pelissetti’s account, and also Zodiac’s claim.) Fouke slows his Cruiser to a stop, and Eric calls to the white male on his side of the street’s sidewalk, the man approaches Eric and a short discussion takes places in which Zelms asks ‘Have you seen anyone suspicious in the area in the last 5 or 10 mins? The man tells Eric he had just seen a man running with a gun and points in a direction. Eric doesn’t know it at the time, but he’s just been face to face with the most dangerous man in California…Zodiac!

This is nicely written WC – but what confirms it happened? Nothing.
The irony for me is that this was written in a letter by an anonymous someone – and it’s suddenly fact. People like to believe it, for some reason. Phooey.
(It’s "whether" – not "weather", btw. The whether is always good in California.)

If Zelms didn’t speak to Zodiac, I’d say Zodiac actually did them a favor.

It’s obvious they SAW each other. IMO, if they would have zipped right on by and NOT asked anyting…that wouldn’t have been good police work!

This man walking was right near the scene of the crime! He might have been able to ID someone…or steer the officers in the right direction. To just drive right on by…not good.

If Zelms didn’t speak to Zodiac, I’d say Zodiac actually did them a favor.
It’s obvious they SAW each other. IMO, if they would have zipped right on by and NOT asked anyting…that wouldn’t have been good police work!
This man walking was right near the scene of the crime! He might have been able to ID someone…or steer the officers in the right direction. To just drive right on by…not good.

Well……
I firstly don’t think it’s obvious they saw each other. There’s no proof that was "The Zodiac" after all. Just a letter. It could have been anyone.
Just some Welsh guy.
Secondly, how many guys were on the sidewalk that evening? How close to the crime scene should they perhaps have decided to stop to speak to pedestrians? (How many white guys do you stop to talk to anyway, when the radio tells you that there’s a black guy with a gun who is the perpetrator in the area?)

I’d have driven right on by, looking for the black guy, personally. And I’d have had my hand on my trusty Chief’s Special too, if you want to know.

If there’s a tiny little lie here, it’s perhaps Officer Fouke managing to come up with such a fantastic description after a fifteen second view, in a drive-by.
Have you listened to him deliver that description on the two videos available btw? That’s interesting.

Zodiac saw "2 cops".

Fouke desribed what the kids described and he was one of two cops.

Probably not a whole lot of people walking around near the scene of the crime that night.

They were on the lookout for a killer who had left the scene of the crime. So their only chance to find the perp could be other folks who may have seen someone.

Yes, Fouke described (approximately) what the kids described – after the fact. You really think he photographed one guy he passed into memory? Police officers are trained observers, yep, but not eidetic supermen. I think Fouke’s BS’ing about it. The two videos helps me think so.

Maybe there weren’t a lot of people walking about. We don’t know. There might have been a house party on the next block, though! We don’t know.
Not really my point. My point was that they were on the look out for a BLACK guy, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t stop to talk to any white ones – and that’s about it. I like Officer Fouke by the way, so it doesn’t matter to me much, this. (I don’t like "Zodiac" though.)

Haven’t we argued this one through before? I’m getting deja vu!

Ironic isn’t it? Officer’s Don Fouke & Eric Zelms respond to a report of a ‘shooting at Washington & Cherry Streets’. Approaching an intersection just arond the corner from the crime scene, the Officers spot a White Male walking down the hill on Jackson Street. (Depending on weather you believe Officer Pelissetti’s account, and also Zodiac’s claim.) Fouke slows his Cruiser to a stop, and Eric calls to the white male on his side of the street’s sidewalk, the man approaches Eric and a short discussion takes places in which Zelms asks ‘Have you seen anyone suspicious in the area in the last 5 or 10 mins? The man tells Eric he had just seen a man running with a gun and points in a direction. Eric doesn’t know it at the time, but he’s just been face to face with the most dangerous man in California…Zodiac!

This is nicely written WC – but what confirms it happened? Nothing.
The irony for me is that this was written in a letter by an anonymous someone – and it’s suddenly fact. People like to believe it, for some reason. Phooey.
(It’s "whether" – not "weather", btw. The whether is always good in California.)

Fouke said "One Month later when the composite drawing came out at Richmond Station and was posted on the wall, he looked similar to the man that I had seen on October 11th." He then said, speaking of Inspector Tosci "He (Tosci) may have been the Inspector who came out and asked me about the composite drawing and I told him the suspect was Older & Heavier"

And don’t forget, for the first 4 weeks after he had this encounter, Fouke said nothing officially about it to anyone. He kept it quiet and to himself. This can only be due to fear of his superiors reaction to letting a suspect walk away from a murder, aswel as maybe feeling that he hadn’t detained the Zodiac while he stood right in front of him, and didn’t want it broadcast.
It wasn’t untill the arrival of your aformentioned letter by Zodiac, where he boasts ‘PS, Two cops pulled a Goof….’, did Fouke officially come forward and ackwnoledge the encounter and make a record of it.

If Officer Fouke didn’t want to even ackwnoledge he’d encountred the male on Jackson St at all, and only did when Zodiac decided to report it all over the newspapers, then why would anyone think that Fouke would so willingly come forward and, from his perspective, make it even worse for himself. A kinda ‘"No, No, No, that’s not correct, we didn’t only see him and continue, but we actually stopped and had a chat also. This man seemed to be a crucial witness, as he informed us that he had, just sendonds prior to us arriving at the location, witnessed a man running with a gun. The Concerned Citizen even pointed out a location down the street where he said the gun man had just gone, and we thanked him for his help and sped away up the street chasing phantom gun men that didn’t exist. However, we can still say that this man did go out of his way to assist us that night, he did everything he could to assist in diverting any suspicion elsewhere, and assisted us in speeding away down the street from himself so as his escape and head start. So the bottom line is, we were made to look like complete idiots, speeding off up the street looking for a murder suspect carrying a gun on the advice and eye witness testimony of a witness aka The Actual offender, who had we searched him, would have found the murder weapon." Why would anyone want to suggest that this is worth keeping quiet? You’d think Fouke would be harrassing tThe Editor of the Chronicle on a daily basis demanding "Please print the story of how a serial killer fooled us into chasing shadows so that he was able to make his escape. Lol.

It also just so happens to be a fact that, Zodiac’s letter describing the police encounter and stop arrives on November 9th, 1969. Just by pure coincidence, Fouke admits seeing a man on Jackson street, and files a report about it on November 12th, 1969. Now I would argue that, if this incident described by Zodiac in the letter never took place and Zodiac made it all up, then no Officer would come forward and admit seeing the man in question, but won’t go as far as admitting speaking to the man simply because it makes the SFPD look like idiots and incompetent. (It’s fine to think, as I once did, that ‘It was the dispatchers error that allowed this to happen, no Foukes’, but in reality, the dispatcher isn’t out on the street, nor did she stop and talk to Zodiac, she remains nameless and Fouke & Zelms will be the ones left with egg on their face.

I have also heard rumours that it isn’t just Fouke who has decided to save his own blushes by not admitting he spoke to Zodiac, but that word was given from ‘Higher Ups’ in the SFPD that this incident would be kept under raps for obvious reasons.

He never wanted to admit, and didn’t do so, the fact that he’d even had an encounter on Jackson St untill Zodiac’s letter arrived, in which he was more than happy to fill in any missing detials that the officers may have suddenly forgotten.

Had Officer Fouke described his encounter in the original report that was made on the night of/or day after Stine’s murder, and then One Month later Zodiac wrote the letter claiming the things he did, then Fouke could have easily dismissed it as fantasy, pointing to his report from Oct 11/12, where he states clearly that he did see a white male on Jackson Street, but that no communication took place. Not making mention of the encounter, Fouke may have considered that seen as only he, Zelms, and Zodaic are aware it happened, the secret is safe. Unfortunately for Fouke though, one of his Bosses at the Dpt, Chief of Inspectors Martin Lee, had decided to give an interview to the Chronicle in which he appeared to attempt to portray Zodiac as, quote "Clumsy, makes basic mistakes like allowing himself to be seen by witnesses, and leaving a print behind at the cab, then finised off the article by stating ‘Zodiac is possibly a latent homosexual’. Had Chief Lee never said these things, Zodiac may have never made this info known, only doing so now because this ‘Pig’ had attempted to brandish him a Clumsy, mistake making idiot, so Zodiac couldn’t stop himself, or resist writing the perfect response to these outragous lie’s about him and calling him a clumsy novice who makes huge mistakes when commiting his crimes, and wrote back with a tone of "You want to talk about clumsy, stupid idiots making school boy mistakes, then ‘PS…Two cops pulled a goof…’

Would have been an interesting scenerio had Zelms realized that could have been Paul’s killer!

But, if Zodiac were really concernced about being seen, he didn’t have to take credit for it.

He didn’t initially. At first Zodiac only makes a passing comment about police in general and how the ‘could have caught me last night if they had searched the park properly’. Again, that is a taunt at the SFPD as a whole, and is in reference to the search of Julius Kahn.

It’s not untill early Nov 9, does Zodiac decide to disclose his encounter with two police officers on the street, and he does it in direct response to Chief of Inspector’s Martin Lee’s claims about him in the Chronicle. Zodiac says nothing about the encounter for a month, untill Chief Lee publically gives a statement for the Chronicle in which he announces Zodac is, quote: "Zodiac is a clumsy crimina who has made several mistakes including allowing witnesses to see him, and leaving his fingerprint behind at the crime scene of his latest homicide. He is also a liar, his claim of being in the park at the time we were searching it is a complete lie. He ,ay also possibly be a latent homosexual." Lee summerised his assessment by commenting "These mistakes, as well as others police won’t elaborate on, show Zodiac not to be the master criminal he apparently considers himself.

I mean, even I can see how, from the perspective of Zodiac, he now simply has to respond with this information, and inform your accuser of the encounter with police officers on Jackson st because it takes everything Chief Lee is saying about Zodiac – clumsy, carless, amateur mistakes he makes, and turns it right around and back at them. This comeback to Chief Lee’s attempts to portray Zodiac as a bumbling, stupid, clumsy and incompetent criminal, is simply the perfect example to use to show why everything Lee has just said in the Chronicle, is true and accurate of the Officers that he directed away to search for phantom, non existant gun men a few hundred yards away, the most simple and basic of diversion tactics, used on ‘SFPD’s Finest’ and it works instantly to as Zodiac amusingly watchees them speed away, emergency lights activated, up the street after thanking him for helping to point them in the right direction.

That is quite simply, the ultimate reply to Lee’s verbal assault and accusations. Nothing will shut the Chief up quicker, and mae him wish he’d never gone public using words like clumsy and phrases like ‘makes many mistakes’.

You make a pretty good argument, Chappie. How did Fouke notice "graying in the back"? And why wouldn’t he and Zelms stop a guy who, presumably, given the proximity to the crime scene, may well have been able to offer good info?

Would have been an interesting scenerio had Zelms realized that could have been Paul’s killer!

But, if Zodiac were really concernced about being seen, he didn’t have to take credit for it.

He didn’t initially. At first Zodiac only makes a passing comment about police in general and how the ‘could have caught me last night if they had searched the park properly’. Again, that is a taunt at the SFPD as a whole, and is in reference to the search of Julius Kahn.

Zodaic claimed Paul’s murder pretty much right away. I don’t think he was worried about it.

Maybe something LE said later pissed him off and so he decided to rub in the "2 cops" encounter. Regardless if they stopped him, they still drove right on by…you know Zodiac would have been quite pleased. But, it does make one wonder…was he not worried because he truly didn’t look like his normal self that night? Would he have claimed the crime if 2 cops saw him up close and spoke to him?? Frustrating…

But, it does make one wonder…was he not worried because he truly didn’t look like his normal self that night? Would he have claimed the crime if 2 cops saw him up close and spoke to him?? Frustrating…

I’ve wondered that too T. Not just specific to this incident but the whole night and his claimed actions. It may well be that he thought himself foolproof with his disguise and who knows, maybe it was better than we imagine but I can’t imagine how. Maybe he just thought it was but then how good does it have be at distance? is that an indicator that it was only at distance and he wasn’t stopped.

There is the possibility that Z was close and actually saw them talk to the dog walker (sans dog?) and thought I’ll claim I was stopped and for a while they’ll waste time checking this guy out?