handwriting as different as chalk and cheese

It’s different. I would not say it’s that dramatically different. JJD wore wigs, possible fake glasses disguised his voice. Was forensically aware and was, in fact, in college learning law enforcement, I believe at the time of all confirmed zodiac murders. Doesn’t seem unlikely he would completely alter his writing. Just don’t know. It’s hard to believe Zodiac would not consider that he needed to disguise his writing. But I do think that handwriting is one of the more problematic components linking those two. Could be a stretch. But maybe not.

handwriting as different as chalk and cheese

Mr. Lowe, have you seen what the folks over at 12-26-75 have been working on?

https://12-26-75.com/f/capital-comparisons

You can measure the aptitude of GSK. You cant really measure Zodiac’s aptitude without speculating, which I dont think he had a very high one, or at least, I feel that Zodiac tried to disguise it, either a highly intelligent person making themself look not as smart, or an idiot being pretentious. I dont think we really see who the killer is through the letters. When I see the way in which the people were killed, I feel like Zodiac had at least a slightly higher IQ than GSK. They seem very different.

Why would DeAngelo start out as an attention-seeking killer before devolving into a mere burglar, then escalating into rapes and finally murders again? It makes no sense.

handwriting as different as chalk and cheese

Lol. Chalk and cheese

I have considered the not-so-intelligent person being pretentious angle vs. the opposite also. I kind of feel like the truth is in the middle.

Nothing about DeAngelo, who is both the GSK and Zodiac makes sense except to him. It’s known that DeAngelo was killing animals and breaking in homes as a young teenager. It’s documented. I think his escalation happened early in life. And the types of crimes he committed were so broad and numerous and all over the place, that we only see phases in a nice, tidy kind of way. I don’t think it’s like that. No one put his various monikers to him until decades later. So, he was a dog poisoner, a thief, and intruder, a peeper, a kidnapper, a murderer in many different ways, a phone-calling terrorist…I could go on and on. It’s astounding, yet true. I absolutely believe he was Sandy in the Domingo/Edwards murder. Likely killed the Swindles and Ray Davis. Not at all sure about CJB. I think if you listen to when Paul Holes said after his trial that the crimes we know about "pale in comparison to the totality", it doesn’t take much to understand we don’t know everything.

I have a hard time seeing why people so quickly discount him as Zodiac. In my thinking, there are hundreds of indications.

I often come back and re-evaluate the possibility. There are in fact many similarities. The stalky build, the fact that GSK liked to commit crimes across multiple jurisdictions, used different guns and weapons at each crime scene, his MO was always changing and evolving. In fact he had many different monikers and law enforcement was often surprised to find that the same person did all of it. He was GSK, Vaseillia Ransacker, diamond knot killer, east area rapist, the original night stalker…..all very different crimes with different MOs, all in different jurisdictions and with different weapons. He taunted victims often, he wore disguises etc etc.
While I don’t totally write him off, my gut tells me that DeAngelo enjoyed killing and Zodiac was actually not comfortable with the actual murders

Thanks, Nick. Good thoughts. I really see DeAngelo as off-the-charts crazy. The way he sobbed at attacks, such as "I hate you, Bonnie" and things of that nature sound exactly like the guy that called Daniel Williams, sometimes sobbing about his headaches. That same person taunted him for 10 days prior to breaking in his home and using poison in a soda to try to murder him. That’s exactly like something JJD would have done in the crimes we know he committed. He was unrelenting in his boldness before and after attacks. It takes an extremely unique individual to call for days, building the likelihood that he would be caught if he got that close. But yet he did. Just like JJD calling the police ahead of time warning of a certain street he would attack one night. And then he did just that. Also, JJD has, I think, a history of poisoning dogs. I glean that from information on the murderinc wordpress site, which I find full of useful information. Based on what we know of JJD, it all adds up. And then when you take what you know about JJD and compare that to Zodiac, it fits like a glove, over a period of decades. One of the Zodiac letters was mailed on JJD’s birthday. I also think a letter was mailed on his stepfather’s birthday, as well as his mother’s birthday. All Zodiac letters. All significant JJD dates.

I believe JJD was wearing a welding helmet at LB. At the time he was working as a welder for his stepfather. The composite sketches, given by the girls are a DEAD ON ringer of JJD in the photo with Bonnie, where he is holding eyeglasses and wearing a watch. JJD was also a diver at the time.

JJD would have had access to Air Force bases as a teenager, which could be how he got the Super X ammo, which was from an Air Force base and used in the Domingo Edwards murder. He grew up all around that part of the West Coast, hunting and fishing. He received a GED and it seems likely he missed part of his high school. At that exact time, Sandy was around stabbing people with glee and robbing. And likely murdering Edwards and Domingo based on logic.

The thing is that, in my thinking, there are so many things indicating they could be the exact same person, that at some point, you have to ask what rules him out?

Sorry, I realized I didn’t address your last statement directly. I see your point, but I think we have the misfortune of knowing clearly about only the 5 murders officially attributed to Z. But if you broaden that to even a few of the other potential Z murders, you see various behaviors while killing and breaking in. He really is a phenomenon of crime. I don’t think we have even come close to understanding everything he did. My gut tells me he sometimes killed for the thrill of it, and the nature of the thrill varied. And sometimes he killed to direct PR, such as PH. He’s all over the place. Just like JJD was. So while I agree on the surface that his motivation seems different, I believe that is because the scope of our understanding of Z is very narrow, reinforced by decades of rehashing the same limited information accepted about the Z story. The Z story is much larger than we know. My two cents.

People seeing DeAngelo in the Zodiac are just seeing the cop traits in the Zodiac, IMO.

Yes, that is true. But in addition to that, there are hundreds of other indications. None that are categorically provable yet, but when you overlay JJD’s life, tendencies, location, sickness and other things with what we know about Zodiac, they match up almost perfectly. Even the odd walk, gait. Sounds like what Faulk said about him.

"The spectacle drew the attention of a stocky, grinning man Bonnie had never noticed before. Joe DeAngelo was thick-muscled and dough-faced, with an odd jounce to his gait." …in reference to Bonnie’s interview about JJD.

JJD was a rapist who seems to have turned to homicide to silence witnesses. However the ONS phase are sexual homicides. There is an escalation between VR, EAR and ONS.

Zodiac is a thrill killer who did not sexually assault his targets.

So not only are they different types of killers but VREARONS is not an escalation of the Zodiac when you put them in chronological order. Zodiac executes quickly in mostly hit and runs. EAR didn’t kill except when it it got in the way of his escape or probably when his face was seen.

JJD was a damage controlman in the Navy just months before the first credited Z attack. The murders all fit neatly in this time period, between leaving the Navy and becoming a police officer. JJD was obsessed with policing before he was an officer, which fits what people pondered about Z at the time. Take a look at the Flash gear that was used. Also, Z is a readiness condition. Interesting. I’ve also included photos of JJD at the time the LB sketch was made. He was studying police science at the time of the 5 murders. And also working as a welder. I believe it could be a welder’s helmet under Flash gear. Or possibly something he created, inspired by Flash gear he would have had. Maybe he like the intimidating feeling he got wearing it in the Navy. The crosshatch on the Z door is interesting. The attacks were all weekends and holidays, when he would have been able to be away from school and work to drive down to the Bay area.

I hear you on the escalation theory. For decades, we didn’t have any idea about an escalation. The prowler wasn’t associated with the rapist, who wasn’t associated with the killer. Now we know. Just as I believe we will soon know that JJD had many other MOs and phases. I think they overlapped and we only put them together because we are only looking for similar patterns. There are many other murders I think JJD did. One was the girl in the shopping center in the area he was, at the exact time he was AWOL.