Simplicity appears to have deleted a post which may make my previous post appear odd, but I’m leaving it here because the post I reacted to was not very nice

No. I removed it. Keep it civil please.

Simplicity – the post was removed after a complaint was received. Apologies if this has ‘upset the rhythm’ but if we can get this thread back on track it would be appreciated. Thanks.

trav.

How someone speaks in real life can be very different from the way they write. Being a big fan on Formula One racing I myself, and many fellow American fans, have picked up quite a bit of "British-isms" naturally. You can see it in our posts on Internet racing forums. Most of the media coverage we get on F1 is British, both print and television, even the commentators hired by American broadcasters are British so the language just sort of creeps into our own.

For instance, using "bin it" or "shunt" for a crash, "gearbox" for transmission, "binders" for brakes, "paddock" for the pit area, and others. These are not words you would use in American racing. Americans not involved in F1 wouldn’t know what the hell you were taking about. Being born and raised in Texas and speaking perfect Texanese, I would never use those words if I had not learned them by listening to Brits.

The words, and their spelling, that Zodiac used is something I have looked into rather extensively and I have concluded it’s evidence he was rather well read, perhaps well educated. Many of the supposed misspellings are actually the archaic spelling of the word and can be found in older literature. Much of that older literature is British in origin so of course it would come across that way. "Salt beef" for example is what we in the US call "corned beef" so that would be something Zodiac picked up from literature most likely. That doesn’t mean it was from British literature however as those words can cross over into older American writing, much like the British terms crossed over to American F1 fans.

Then there are words like "cerous", which appears to be a misspelling of curious. Perhaps it is a misspelling, but it is also a chemical term rooted from cerium. There are also words that apparently are misspellings, like "untill" and "Christmass". We don’t know if those are unintentional misspellings or just him trying to be cute. I’ve known people who will throw things like that out there just to see who’s paying attention and to judge their intelligence. Anyway, I don’t believe any of this is something that will solve the case, but could be circumstantial evidence against someone who is a POI or if we ever get an arrest.

I also don’t believe he had any sort of mental disability. I mean, he was most certainly "out there" as Nancy Slover said, but he was sneaky crazy. A Dennis Rader type who you would not suspect of having these insane ideas if you knew him. He hid in plain sight and so did Zodiac in my opinion. Zodiac would "do his thing", then go about his normal life. And just to be clear, by saying he did not have a mental disability I don’t discount autism or even schizophrenia, just that it was no where near debilitating, there are many different levels of both. I’m just saying he was fully functional.

I don’t count autism as a disability, we are all on the spectrum, some of us further up it than others. I count my self blessed that I grew up in an era where we didn’t throw labels around left right and centre, and as a result have functioned very well, although I have faced and continue to face challenges. My point is, that at that time a lot of autistic people were considered a bit odd, not diagnosed with anything. I was only diagnosed in early middle age, and had to learn to get by, prior to this. No-one actually guesses about me, I have to tell them. I think it highly likely that zodiac was autistic to some degree, I think he displayed many traits, only some of which Jacob and I raised. I pointed out this possibility only because the title of the thread was to do with zodiacs most distinctive trait, namely Britishisms, which I as British don’t see. I do see autistic traits. Please research autism and its many levels before dismissing the possibility that zodiac was " on the spectrum", and try some online tests to see which traits you have. You’d be surprised. By the way, I’ve always known corned beef as corned beef, not knocking your points just saying it’s been known as that certainly since the 60s,when I was little.

I don’t count autism as a disability,

I said "there are many different levels of both", meaning autism and schizophrenia. Surely you know there are levels of both autism and schizophrenia that are debilitating. My post was in the context that Zodiac had no debilitating form of either one. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

the title of the thread was to do with zodiacs most distinctive trait, namely Britishisms, which I as British don’t see.

Yes, I tried to explain how these are not necessarily "Britishisms" but could be learned through reading. Much of what was pointed out by the OP aren’t British at all, anyway.

I do see autistic traits. Please research autism and its many levels before dismissing the possibility that zodiac was " on the spectrum", and try some online tests to see which traits you have. You’d be surprised.

I clearly said I don’t dismiss the possibility Zodiac was autistic.

By the way, I’ve always known corned beef as corned beef, not knocking your points just saying it’s been known as that certainly since the 60s,when I was little.

Again, I merely pointed out salt beef is British in origin but also pointed out all of these terms could have been learned through early American literature, it would all be older literature though, not more recent, which is why I said "archaic", which means from an earlier period.

You seem to think I was attacking your post, I wasn’t. I was trying to clarify why I said some of the things I said in earlier posts. I said I brought autism to the table to show that I considered autism a more distinctive trait than Britishisms,(given the title of the thread). I was trying to show that the thread hadn’t gone as far as off topic as it may have seemed. There was a method to my madness!! You’re right, there are people with autism who are very severely affected, but I was just encouraging you and other readers to research the topic, and to see how we all carry traits, and therefore it may be that zodiac was affected enough to get a diagnosis, were he a young man today . it may have illuminated his behaviour, but done bugger all to catch the bastard. the corned beef thing was no beef with you(don’t pardon the pun!!). I thought I said I wasn’t knocking your post. It was no criticism

I thought I said I wasn’t knocking your post. It was no criticism

I was just clarifying what I said. No worries.

Very interesting thread !

Here is my contribution :

This is a copy I posted on Zodiackillerfacts.com back in Nov 2010, the threads topic was "Zodiac’s Psychology"

http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/forum/ … ?f=9&t=956

Here is a list, in random order, of personality traits that I believe probably fit the Zodiac killer.

Most of all; a contradictory personality

psychopathic
polite
ironic
sarcastic
self-absorbed
self pity
bold
theatrical
inventive
fantasy junky
cold hearted
cordial
careful
sadistic
intelligent
sly
intellectual
educated apperance
humorous
cool
calm
controled
exstream, but surpressed, anger
hypersensitive
revengeful
depressive
arrogant
Narcissistic
patient
felt belittled
intriquant
thrill seaking
nervous
competitive
imaginative
love/hate feelings towards woman, probably towards people in general.
artistic
feeling lonely & detached

And here is a copy of a post I posted in August 2009 over at zodiackiller.com, it was a thread concerning;
"what is the one thing about Zodiac that you feel most confident about"

My contribution was:

I am convinced that Zodiac had a rule nr 1.

To be a big time PARADOX.
To mix truth and lies, to mix and change every move he made as the Zodiac Killer, in order to confuse people and of course LE and their investigation:

Here are some examples I have noticed:

Changed modus operandi

Changed type of victims

Changed weapons (even change his guns/calibers)

Changed murder locations , LE Counties

Bad spelling/good spelling

Bad gramma/good gramma

Sloppy unmature handwriting/organized mature handwriting

On one hand give impression of low education/ on other hand indicate/refere to probable extensive knowledge in arts/intellectual/religious issues

Refere to several contradicting religious beliefs like Christianity/ hedonistic beliefs

Evil & scary attitude/polite, cheerful & nice attitude

Powerful and coldhearted attitude/ express weakness like lonelyness & unhappyness

Very informative & communicative about his actions / succeded in being exstremly enigmatic

Name himself Zodiac and sign with crosshair symbol/ add new symbol (HC card) as his signature, and at other letters sign himself as "A Citizen" and "The Red Phantom"

Victims and murder location ect. are not connected to celebrity community / refere to (even directly address) several celebrities in his communications (indicating possible connection to celeb comuntiy)

And…

I have no doubt, whatsoever, that Zodiac did NOT suffer from any kind of insanity, and that include that I beleive that he was NOT psychotic in any way.

And concerning whether Zodiac was insane or not, and other intersting theories,
This is what SFPD’s Captain Martin Lee says in a November 12th 1969, Desert Sun, Number 86,
interview at the San Francisco Hall of Justice:

“We are learning more and more about him all the time,” Lee said.
“He has been called insane and a screwball but I don’t believe it.
I think he is legally sane.
He has a knowledge of the difference between right and wrong.
“I don’t picture him as a man who works with his hands.
I think he has a small job and possibly one where he does work with paper, possibly at his desk.
“The rambling character of his notes is also a disguise, because his cryptograms can be works of art.
“I would guess he is from the (San Francisco) Bay area.
He exhibits local knowledge of San Francisco and in and around Napa.”
“One day we will catch him and he will be tried.
We have considerable evidence of many different kinds.
I wish there were some word of reassurance we could give people.” Lee said
Zodiac’s characteristic misspellings and grammatical errors were actually “clumsy attempts at deception.” “He is inconsistent,” Lee said. “Sometimes he spells words correctly. Other times he doesn’t. I have no doubt that the spelling is done for a purpose rather than through ignorance.

And here is an exact reproduction, taken directly from the video, of what SFPD’s Captain Martin Lee said in that November 12th 1969 interview:

KPIX News report from November 12th 1969 with Pat O’Brien featuring a press conference by SFPD’s Captain Martin Lee at the San Francisco Hall of Justice, where Lee comments on the letters written by the Zodiac killer and also speculates on his character.
Added to San Francisco Bay Area Television Archive on April 6, 2017

https://diva.sfsu.edu/collections/sfbatv/bundles/231079

At 4:55 – 5:51

Capt. Lee describes his thoughts/knowledge? of Zodiac :

"I, I don’t picture him as a man who works…with his hands (IMO Lee indicating; NOT a physically hard working man)

than the rambling notes that we’ve gotten.

I went away and I got more.

"by the way" – he really like this term and he likes to use it in a smart alec manner.

"rather" – This word has always be rather more popular in Britain compared to America. If Americans use it, which they certain do, it’s usually to state a preferrence, for example "I’d rather not speak about it" – actually even then it still doesn’t sound right. The British use rather in a rather unusual manner, such as "that’s rather silly isn’t it?", or even exclaim "rather!". It does rather bring to mind 30’s and 40’s British cinema, and I’m not particularly reminded of comic books either.

"implied" – there’s something about that word, I mean it’s common everywhere, but most Joe’s on the street don’t use it. If you ever get accused of "implying" something it’s usually by some pseudo-intellectual type.

Why do I say that I think the Zodiac was a pseudo-intellectual? It’s not because I think he’s stupid, or because I think he’s smart, it’s because I think he is infantile and undisciplined in his thinking. He lacks a certain academic rigor, the kind that people require to succeed consistently in school and in university. He does have a professional manner at times, but it doesn’t make me think he’s mature, or successful, it just makes me think he’s pretentious. I also think he’s very self taught and unlikely to listen attentively, or respectfully to an instructor. I think he is childlike in someways, though in others he is fully grown.

"clever" – it’s not a huge gap, but it’s certainly more popular in Britain. And it rings again of early cinema, or comic books.

The thing is, if there are places that these terms, that are common in America, it is classic cinema, and books. It’s certainly not out on the streets of the late 60’s.

How someone speaks in real life can be very different from the way they write.

Yes. We usually write letters to authorities and organisations formally, but speak colloquially. I’m not convinced Z’s super-villian writing voice would be readily apparent in his day-to-day speech.

The thing is, if there are places that these terms, that are common in America, it is classic cinema, and books. It’s certainly not out on the streets of the late 60’s.

If so, a vast number of watchers of old movies on TV would have picked up on the rather formal voices of heroes and villians played not only by Englishmen, but also American stars like Fairbanks, Flynn et al. This then becomes like the Z composite, which is a kind of crew-cut and glasses (non-hippie) everyman of the Sixties. Too commonplace to narrow down our search much.

Please continue though with the observations of Z’s vocabulary. More fruitful material may become apparent. It’s all good food for thought.

Also… TheForeigner’s list of Z’s (contradictory) personality traits (see post above) is interesting. That’s a long list of traits that is apparent from just a few letters.

Replaceablehead, in your paragraph about rather being less common in America, have you noticed how many times you used it?
I use the word implied a fair bit, if someone’s implied something. Are you implying I’m "some pseudo-intellectual?"

Thanks, simplicity, for your derisory comments. Unless you’re zodiac, may I suggest that your opinions are no more valid than ours, and autism is not necessarily as debilitating as you assume, unless you think autism is rain man. Your opinion of "autistics" has been noted. My opinion of you I can’t be bothered to lower myself to express.

My "opinion" of Autism is based on fact. I’m not sorry if truths offends but theory of mind is impaired in people with autism.
Show me where in Zodiacs writings he displays these traits because he doesn’t and displays much the opposite.

He was not Autistic.

Furthermore the assumption that his gait was affected by schizophrenia or Autism is laughable.

If you don’t know what your actually talking about dont get upset when others pull you up.

Thanks, simplicity, for your derisory comments. Unless you’re zodiac, may I suggest that your opinions are no more valid than ours, and autism is not necessarily as debilitating as you assume, unless you think autism is rain man. Your opinion of "autistics" has been noted. My opinion of you I can’t be bothered to lower myself to express.

My "opinion" of Autism is based on fact. I’m not sorry if truths offends but theory of mind is impaired in people with autism.
Show me where in Zodiacs writings he displays these traits because he doesn’t and displays much the opposite.

He was not Autistic.

Furthermore the assumption that his gait was affected by schizophrenia or Autism is laughable.

If you don’t know what your actually talking about dont get upset when others pull you up.

People on the autism spectrum frequently have dyspraxia, a coordination disorder that causes a gaited walk.

"I’m not sorry if truths offends but theory of mind is impaired in people with autism."

As has already been explained, autism is a complex spectrum with varying levels of impairment.

There’s literally nothing to suggest he had Autism.

The problem here i think is that you’ve read everything about what Autism is you think every oddity is related to Autism.

As i’ve pointed out before, Schizoid personality disorder (one of many disorders of the zodiac) cleary states "autistic like thinking" – not autism not schizophrenia.

The reason i keep highlighting schizoid PD is because it is the biggest clue as it encompasses everything your saying but accurately.