A 1921 through 1941 motivation &/ connection to the 1960s "zodiac"? Was he just a comic & mystery books nerd-fanatic?
In 1921 there was a "Detective Story Magazine" issue #42 telling the story of "z" (starting on page 36 in the link), a murderer who’s committing his crimes and then either calls the police with the opening phrase: "this is Z calling/speaking" and explaining what he have done and sometimes even leave a "z calling card" in the scene near the body, he even went as far as sending the police department a taunting message in a letter about his future move/killings’ victim, I believe that the 1960s "zodiac" was familiar with this story and may have drew inspiration from it (as suggested by others before me, the "zodiac" was a comic books fan, his "by rope, by knife, by gun, by fire" phrase to Paul Avery was actually "borrowed" from the 1952 Western comic book of Tim Holt Issue 30, this very same Holt has an alter-ego called "Red Mask" just as in "the red phantom" alias he supposedly used in his July 8th, 1974 letter and the red paint he added over the skeleton’s face when he mailed that halloween card to Paul Avery in October 27th, 1970). The very same issue had a story about a criminal usage of handwriting in their crimes (page 134 in the link). What do you think?
I believe that even his ZVF sign in the same halloween card and in other letters was actually based upon the symbol of another comic book hero: "Red Ryder" (published between 1938-1964) and the name "zodiac" was picked by him after the Adam West Batman series’ episode called "the zodiac crimes" which aired in January 11th, 1967. Who knows? IF he was the one who wrote that "death poem" on the student desk found in Riverside Community College library the initials RH can stands for "Red Hood" that was The Joker’s alias back at those days… I believe he was just a class nobody/nerd without any friends, most likely from California, who due to his physical appearance (short and fat/bulky and perhaps even redhead/ginger in a sense) got beat up and threatened by bullies in school all his life, he was vulnerable but sought escape which he found in these fiction books, later in life (RCC?) he decided he wishes to remain the "wimp" no more and wanted revenge. Once he reached his later phase in life (around 30 years old) bought some weapons to boost his self-esteem, trained on shooting and began his rampage, the first ones to be randomly picked by him were young couples on lovers’ lanes cause that’s a thing he NEVER HAD and it drove him nuts, who knows why Paul Stine was picked? maybe because he was an easy target or simply because his "zodiac" persona demanded more fame (in the letter to Melvin Belli he claimed he was "fighting urges" that "takes over him and making him kill" – if he wasn’t "sam", he may have been pulling their leg as he saw the popularity that broadcast had and again – as explained in the next paragraph – "played along") so he let himself snap into it once Stine parked in the "destination" (I believe he told him he wasn’t from San Francisco and wasn’t sure about the exact "address he needs to attend" – if such was originally true).
I believe that the History teacher and his wife who decoded the first cipher with "afterlife/paradice" and "collecting slaves" had done a mistake in their work and when the "zodiac" saw the horror it drew among the public he decided to adopt this mistake and "rolled with it". It doesn’t seems he was a satanist or a devoted/religious person in his original letter ("this is the murderer of…" instead of "this is the zodiac speaking"), he stepped it up when the public became paralyzed with fear but I don’t believe he planned this originally. he was aiming at getting caught, and claimed his name was there (from the 408 to 340 and in the 13 letters cipher) – he was an attention whore and wished to make a name for himself (this is the case if he wasn’t deceiving them with a false name or framing someone else).
In 1941 there was a weird murder in New Orleans of a California man called Alfred "Bud" Lord whose body was found on a deserted wharf (the police suspected he was dragged there from another part of town as his shoes had signs of red clay on them, which wasn’t available in the crime scene/docks area) dressed all fancy with a bullet in his head, inside his belt the killer inserted a small torn-up piece of paper with the inked text (handwriting that resembles the 1960s "zodiac"): "He knew too much. too bad! (zodiac’s gun’s sight/crossed circle sign)", the murder weapon was found shortly after drawn in the river just below that same wharf. This story was covered in Life Magazine of June 1941. If the "zodiac" was between his late 20s to 45 in 1969 he could have been the person who did it only if he was over the 40 years old benchmark, however IF the 1971 Vallejo Times Hearld (IIRC) anonymous ad claiming the "zodiac" was "following his father’s footsteps of murders in 1947, as his old man taught him" is correct then he may have been Bud’s murderer’s son who was "continuing his legacy", adopting/using his father’s symbol. What do you think?
Disclosure: STOP calling the "zodiac" killer "z", just like in the case of "isis" (the islamic terror faction), they’re nothing to fond despite having English initials that sounds like something from the X-MEN, this sick (whether diagnosed or not) SOB is not your friend and he’s not a person to be sympathetic with or have containing-feeling towards. What I feel from the forums and sites I’ve explored ranges from sympathy to admiring this lame POS. Cecilia Shepard’s sister and family are right!
That’s my poi: viewtopic.php?f=96&t=4009
Wow and pretty much agree with most! Great nic as well you have!
Oh by the way the only part I disagree with is the father & son duo. Other then that great post Israelite Wolfman. Again luv the nic and glad you didn’t choose Hairy Jew 
A 1921 through 1941 motivation &/ connection to the 1960s "zodiac"? Was he just a comic & mystery books nerd-fanatic?
In 1941 there was a weird murder in New Orleans of a California man called Alfred "Bud" Lord whose body was found on a deserted wharf (the police suspected he was dragged there from another part of town as his shoes had signs of red clay on them, which wasn’t available in the crime scene/docks area) dressed all fancy with a bullet in his head, inside his belt the killer inserted a small torn-up piece of paper with the inked text (handwriting that resembles the 1960s "zodiac"): "He knew too much. too bad! (zodiac’s gun’s sight/crossed circle sign)", the murder weapon was found shortly after drawn in the river just below that same wharf. This story was covered in Life Magazine of June 1941. If the "zodiac" was between his late 20s to 45 in 1969 he could have been the person who did it only if he was over the 40 years old benchmark, however IF the 1971 Vallejo Times Hearld (IIRC) anonymous ad claiming the "zodiac" was "following his father’s footsteps of murders in 1947, as his old man taught him" is correct then he may have been Bud’s murderer’s son who was "continuing his legacy", adopting/using his father’s symbol. What do you think?
The death of Bud Lord was written about in a detective magazine in June 1941, not Life magazine to the best of my knowledge. It turned out that his death was suicide, not murder. However the story may have influenced Zodiac in some way. I strongly believe that detective magazines were something he read regularly.
We had the story posted on our old forum though never transferred it over here. I have rescanned the story and posted it here-
The death of Bud Lord was written about in a detective magazine in June 1941, not Life magazine to the best of my knowledge. It turned out that his death was suicide, not murder. However the story may have influenced Zodiac in some way. I strongly believe that detective magazines were something he read regularly.
We had the story posted on our old forum though never transferred it over here. I have rescanned the story and posted it here-
Suicide? So, he wrote that letter before he killed himself? Still makes the appearance of the cross-circle intriguing…
A 1921 through 1941 motivation &/ connection to the 1960s "zodiac"? Was he just a comic & mystery books nerd-fanatic?
In 1941 there was a weird murder in New Orleans of a California man called Alfred "Bud" Lord whose body was found on a deserted wharf (the police suspected he was dragged there from another part of town as his shoes had signs of red clay on them, which wasn’t available in the crime scene/docks area) dressed all fancy with a bullet in his head, inside his belt the killer inserted a small torn-up piece of paper with the inked text (handwriting that resembles the 1960s "zodiac"): "He knew too much. too bad! (zodiac’s gun’s sight/crossed circle sign)", the murder weapon was found shortly after drawn in the river just below that same wharf. This story was covered in Life Magazine of June 1941. If the "zodiac" was between his late 20s to 45 in 1969 he could have been the person who did it only if he was over the 40 years old benchmark, however IF the 1971 Vallejo Times Hearld (IIRC) anonymous ad claiming the "zodiac" was "following his father’s footsteps of murders in 1947, as his old man taught him" is correct then he may have been Bud’s murderer’s son who was "continuing his legacy", adopting/using his father’s symbol. What do you think?
The death of Bud Lord was written about in a detective magazine in June 1941, not Life magazine to the best of my knowledge. It turned out that his death was suicide, not murder. However the story may have influenced Zodiac in some way. I strongly believe that detective magazines were something he read regularly.
We had the story posted on our old forum though never transferred it over here. I have rescanned the story and posted it here-
Thanks, but all I can see in your post there is a text with the files’ names, the major reason I’ve joined this forum was to view files such as this (the phenomena was known to me from before). I recalled that your previous scans about the Alfred "Bud" Lord case were from Life magazine that’s why I have wrote it. I don’t believe it was a suicide, it seems off-right to believe that the guy had planted this note on himself, he was probably was up to something that could put the murderer in prison so he took him out before he could "spill the beans" on him to the police/press. The 1971 Vallejo newspaper ad that I have found cited/typed in an academic paper is interesting – despite never saw that actual ad scanned – could there have been someone who knew who "zodiac" was (including his family’s history – maybe a close friend) and decided to snitch? or to force him out of his "safe space" to turn himself in? Only the authentic poster (the person who bought the ad place and sent the it in that day) knows. Maybe he was a victim too, eventually when "zodiac" was up to/caught him.
That’s my poi: viewtopic.php?f=96&t=4009
Oh by the way the only part I disagree with is the father & son duo. Other then that great post Israelite Wolfman. Again luv the nic and glad you didn’t choose Hairy Jew
Thanks 
Even though Jews are not all THAT hairy, only in comparison to West Europeans perhaps. Georgians, persians, arabs and Romanians are much hairier than us.
That’s my poi: viewtopic.php?f=96&t=4009
Not sure why the files are not loading for you, they load for me just fine. The story is worth reading and may change your mind about suicide.
I’m not certain about the 1971 ad you are referring to, can you post a link to the discussion on it? Was it an ad that was mentioned in Lyndon Lafferty’s book that had something to do with Betty Lou?
Not sure why the files are not loading for you, they load for me just fine. The story is worth reading and may change your mind about suicide.
I’m not certain about the 1971 ad you are referring to, can you post a link to the discussion on it? Was it an ad that was mentioned in Lyndon Lafferty’s book that had something to do with Betty Lou?
Yeah, I have read the story back a month ago, I recalled that everything was sucking in life for that poor Alfred Lord (his girlfriend rejected his idea of marriage and he couldn’t find a job at her father’s despite his dream to be in the commercials business), but he was on the run from someone as he bought a gun in Kansas 6 months prior his death and stayed in a hotel in New Orleans with an alias as if he was from Yuma, Arizona and wanted to reach to some paper in New Orleans to talk with them about something, and then: BOOM he is found dead yet VERY-WELL DRESSED in a deserted wharf shot in his head from a position that makes the pathologist STATE it is a homicide (another man stood in front of the victim who squatted down a little bit and murdered him with a shot to the head) with a note claiming "he knew too much, too bad (crossed-circle/gun-sight/Celtic cross)", the NOPD submariner suggested it was a suicide when he saw that there was only one bullet missing from the gun he retrieved from the bottom of the lake near the wharf.
I found the 1971 ad on an academic article 6-7 weeks ago in Academia.Edu while researching this mystery. It’s also typed here: http://zodiackiller.fr.yuku.com/topic/5833#.WTqvZGjyvIW
That’s my poi: viewtopic.php?f=96&t=4009
I believe that the 1960s "zodiac" was familiar with this story and may have drew inspiration from it (as suggested by others before me, the "zodiac" was a comic books fan, his "by rope, by knife, by gun, by fire" phrase to Paul Avery was actually "borrowed" from the 1952 Western comic book of Tim Holt Issue 30, this very same Holt has an alter-ego called "Red Mask" just as in "the red phantom" alias he supposedly used in his July 8th, 1974 letter and the red paint he added over the skeleton’s face when he mailed that halloween card to Paul Avery in October 27th, 1970). The very same issue had a story about a criminal usage of handwriting in their crimes (page 134 in the link). What do you think?
I think you’re mainly right.
I don’t necessarily agree with your specific take(s) above, but I have thought for a long time that the origins of Zodiac, as we know him, can be partly traced back to an interest in lurid fiction, pulp novels, comic books, movies, etc.
My own "profile" of the killer would include that. He was an antisocial indivdidual who to some extent based his "campaign" on things he had read and watched: His aim was (again, partly) to come across as a bogeyman, perhaps even a super villain (interesting that you mention The Joker – a character who has turned up in Zodiac discussions before, the 1960s TV series more specifically).
Zodiac knew what a powerful tool the media is – and was, even in his day. He is reminiscent of a terrorist of sorts, albeit one without a particular agenda (political, religious or otherwise). He emerges alongside more "proper" terrorists in an era when the phenomenon as such becomes a…phenomenon (although Zodiac’s most obvious "predecessor" in the "write scary letters" department is Jack The Ripper, a figure he undoubtedly knew as well).
There is something immature about him. Something juvenile. A hint that he’s playing pretend to some extent. Not pathologically, in the sense that he has a split personality, but in the sense that he’s pretending to be a big, bad villain – like a kid would.
