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He changed, what is the most likely reason?

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(@dag-maclugh)
Posts: 794
Prominent Member
 

How about this: He was married and, eventually, his wife discovered his hobby. Perhaps due to their economic situation she was unable to report/leave him but threatened to do so if he repeated his crimes.

 
Posted : February 20, 2019 7:58 pm
Marshall
(@marshall)
Posts: 643
Honorable Member
 

How about this: He was married and, eventually, his wife discovered his hobby. Perhaps due to their economic situation she was unable to report/leave him but threatened to do so if he repeated his crimes.

I think he would have either kept killing and made it a better secret from his wife, or he would have killed her. :-)

 
Posted : February 20, 2019 9:02 pm
(@claypooles)
Posts: 353
Reputable Member
 

How about this: He was married and, eventually, his wife discovered his hobby. Perhaps due to their economic situation she was unable to report/leave him but threatened to do so if he repeated his crimes.

I think he would have either kept killing and made it a better secret from his wife, or he would have killed her. :-)

Yeah, I feel you Marshall. That would have been a most dangerous game to play for his wife!

 
Posted : February 20, 2019 9:07 pm
(@stitchmallone)
Posts: 798
Prominent Member
 

Sure, but I really believe he needed to feel that power over the Bay inhabitants, and his letters were somehow the continuation of his attacks. Killing meant overpowering his victims, writing tauting letters meant overpowering the whole Bay area.

This! Stine killing was his end game and the bus bomb letter was his icing on his cake. He achieved his goal. Also why I think he was from SF and he was smart enough not to start his killings in the bay area to make LE think he was from elsewhere.

 
Posted : February 20, 2019 9:47 pm
 DMW
(@dmw)
Posts: 25
Eminent Member
 

I think of Z more as a letter-writer who killed, than as a killer who wrote letters.

Here’s my idea. Completely wild conjecture, but it fits in with everything I know about Z.

I don’t think he killed Cheri Jo Bates. But he was intrigued by the case, and followed it in the press. When the killer sent out letters, Z saw what a fuss was made about it in the press. And he was fascinated. So he tried his hand at his own letters — I think he sent the second, handwritten set of letters himself. He LOVED the media attention that got.

Then he decided to try his own killing. His first killing was in an isolated spot, and he killed in the way that allowed for the quickest getaway — shoot them and run. He PLANNED to send a bunch of letters afterward, but he didn’t because he unexpectedly found himself to be terrified that he would be caught. It was his first murder and he was completely rattled.

But then months went by and no police came knocking at his door. He began to feel safer and safer — and to think that the police must be really stupid. So he decided to kill again — but to do it right this time. He again killed in a fairly isolated spot that allowed a quick getaway, but this time he was stayed calm enough to make a phone call. And to send letters. And to cause a huge storm of media. He loved this!

But then the Manson murders happened, and he found himself seriously upstaged. They were so brutal — and got so much press — that his little shootings seemed pretty insignificant in comparison. Z had to get back into the media spotlight, and in a spectacular way. He had to up his game to compete with the Mansons. So, he made a super-villain costume and upped the brutality with a knife.

I think he was shaken by the experience with the knife. It was too close-up, too personal, too messy. It left him shaken. He hated it (which is why he never did it again).

He felt like he needed to get back on his game. Get back to the high he felt after the second set of killings. So he decided to shoot a cabbie. It seemed like an easy way to get back on track.

However, it turned into a total disaster. He barely got away that night.

At this point, after two bad experiences, he decided that the risk of actually murdering people was too high. The letters were what he loved anyway. He gave up killing and focused on the letters.

Don’t ask me to prove this, because I couldn’t even come close to doing it!

 
Posted : March 9, 2019 11:54 pm
jacob
(@jacob)
Posts: 1266
Noble Member
 

How about this: He was married and, eventually, his wife discovered his hobby. Perhaps due to their economic situation she was unable to report/leave him but threatened to do so if he repeated his crimes.

I think he would have either kept killing and made it a better secret from his wife, or he would have killed her. :-)

There is similar speculation regarding GSK’s wife. Suspicions being silenced by fear.

 
Posted : March 10, 2019 12:26 am
(@claypooles)
Posts: 353
Reputable Member
 

Sounds right to me, DMW. In any case, I think the fact he came so close to being caught after Stine’s murder made him think twice afterwards.
The need for thrill came back after a while, though, and urged him to write other letters. But with time, this urge faded.

 
Posted : March 10, 2019 12:35 am
jacob
(@jacob)
Posts: 1266
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But then the Manson murders happened, and he found himself seriously upstaged. They were so brutal — and got so much press — that his little shootings seemed pretty insignificant in comparison. Z had to get back into the media spotlight, and in a spectacular way. He had to up his game to compete with the Mansons. So, he made a super-villain costume and upped the brutality with a knife.!

I believe this is the case. The Manson crew tied up the victims and wrote on their property. As did he, but in broad daylight to up the ante.

It would help explain why he made the radical departure from shootings to stabbings.

However, he used a pen to write on the car rather than victims’ blood, because the stabbing made him squeamish.

 
Posted : March 10, 2019 12:39 am
(@dag-maclugh)
Posts: 794
Prominent Member
 

My POI was a student at San Jose State University from ’68-9 until ’71. This would account for his weekends being free. After graduating, he might have got a job that forbade his weekend activities.

 
Posted : March 10, 2019 2:31 am
(@tonyd)
Posts: 9
Active Member
 

It is entirely possible he didn’t stop killing. He almost got caught at the Stein crime scene. Maybe he became more cautious. He said in his letters that he would change his method of killing. He said he would make them look like accidents. Maybe that is what he did. Maybe he wasn’t lying when he wrote – 37!

 
Posted : June 1, 2020 7:01 am
(@mccririck)
Posts: 66
Trusted Member
 

He was clearly more careful than most killers, I think. Obviously he took risks as all killers do but it seems to me that after the Stine murder he felt he had pushed it a little too far. He left a print in the cab, he was almost caught on the street and in the park, plus after moving his killings into SF he would have even more police resources after him. Likely if he did want to kill again he’d perhaps not want to draw attention to it.

 
Posted : June 12, 2020 5:54 pm
(@ithinkiknow)
Posts: 193
Estimable Member
 

"I promised to punish them if they did not comply [by wearing nice Zodiac buttons], by anilating a full school bus. But now school is out for the summer, so I punished them in another way. I shot a man sitting in a parked car with a .38."

The June 26, 1970, letter/card has always sounded odd to me. He asked on April 28, 1970, for the citizens of the Bay Area to wear some nice Zodiac buttons. Then in June he suggests he can’t blow up a school bus because it’s now summer?

The June 26 letter/card reads (to me, anyway) like a man has just come into town and is making an observation about what he sees upon returning. He could be military, travel with work, or even a student himself. But I think he left town after Stine, whatever the excuse. He thought he was invincible and discovered that he wasn’t. It scared him. He used his excuse to leave town. Then he started slowly making return trips. The schedule of mailings does kinda mirror holiday schedules at colleges, at least somewhat.

I think returning to mail letters actually served another purpose, too. If he has strong plausible ties to his new area, then the letters reinforced the public’s perception that Zodiac was still in the Bay Area while the actual man was in another location.

He changed. Why? He moved to avoid detection. Then wrote letters to taunt and confuse. And very possibly continued to kill wherever he ended up.

 
Posted : June 19, 2020 10:10 pm
jacob
(@jacob)
Posts: 1266
Noble Member
 

"I promised to punish them if they did not comply [by wearing nice Zodiac buttons], by anilating a full school bus. But now school is out for the summer, so I punished them in another way. I shot a man sitting in a parked car with a .38."

The June 26, 1970, letter/card has always sounded odd to me. He asked on April 28, 1970, for the citizens of the Bay Area to wear some nice Zodiac buttons. Then in June he suggests he can’t blow up a school bus because it’s now summer?

The June 26 letter/card reads (to me, anyway) like a man has just come into town and is making an observation about what he sees upon returning. He could be military, travel with work, or even a student himself. But I think he left town after Stine, whatever the excuse. He thought he was invincible and discovered that he wasn’t. It scared him. He used his excuse to leave town. Then he started slowly making return trips. The schedule of mailings does kinda mirror holiday schedules at colleges, at least somewhat.

I think returning to mail letters actually served another purpose, too. If he has strong plausible ties to his new area, then the letters reinforced the public’s perception that Zodiac was still in the Bay Area while the actual man was in another location.

He changed. Why? He moved to avoid detection. Then wrote letters to taunt and confuse. And very possibly continued to kill wherever he ended up.

You suggest he was at college. Does that mean he was much younger than many expect? Say 20-24 years old. Of course it’s also possible he was a mature learner, but otherwise he would around the same age as EARONS now.

 
Posted : June 19, 2020 10:56 pm
(@ithinkiknow)
Posts: 193
Estimable Member
 

Jacob, I do think he was a college student. I came to that conclusion many years ago when I was in law school as a 30-something and doing some independent research on Zodiac’s activities. When I found my POI, of course I became more convinced. He was also a non-traditional student. It just feels like the right conclusion.

In general, I think it most likely that Zodiac was 25-30. Maybe as old as 32.

 
Posted : June 20, 2020 7:23 am
(@regis_phillies)
Posts: 20
Eminent Member
 

Jacob, I do think he was a college student. I came to that conclusion many years ago when I was in law school as a 30-something and doing some independent research on Zodiac’s activities. When I found my POI, of course I became more convinced. He was also a non-traditional student. It just feels like the right conclusion.

In general, I think it most likely that Zodiac was 25-30. Maybe as old as 32.

I think it’s interesting your POI was a non-traditional student. I’m just getting into this case but I’m not buying the military angle. The ciphers, word play, and references to works of theater indicate a student of language.

I don’t think Zodiac was a traditional serial killer in the fact the need to kill was his driving force, it was more of a step in a larger process and one he was uncomfortable with. He wanted control, but was probably somewhat uncomfortable with murder. He leveraged this by killing in locations he was familiar with that had good/plentiful exit paths or sparse populations. But, because he wasn’t a stone cold killer, he would 2nd guess himself because he was stalking location instead of victim. He would then get scared/too amped, execute poorly, and in several instances barely escape detection. I agree with another commenter here the Berryessa attack was an attempt to get back in the spotlight, and the Stine killing was a close call that spooked him enough to cease activity. Still trying to figure out the angle for the couples killings but that’s my 2 cents. Don’t know how that aligns with your theory.

 
Posted : July 19, 2020 1:49 am
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