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Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed?

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, Subject: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:02 pm

Knowing whether the Zodiac was left or right handed is important since that knowledge can help detectives rule out certain individuals. (8-15% of individuals are left handed.) There are two pieces of information that lead me to believe that the Zodiac was right handed.

1. Apparently, the Zodiac left a palm print on the Exorcist letter that suggests taht he is right handed. (Zodiackiller.com Message Board, Zodiac’s Alleged Fingerprints.)

2. The Zodiac shot Paul Stine on the right side of his head from behind. That would have been nearly impossible to do if the Zodiac was left handed.



Zamantha, Subject: Zodiac Right Handed or Left? Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:33 pm

This is an article by Jake Wark. Tells of the prints, but not if they are from a right or left hand!? By Jake Wark
Fingerprint Evidence

One aspect of the legend that has grown like moss on the long-unsolved Zodiac case is that the killer was meticulous in his efforts to deprive the police of any physical evidence. Often, the Zodiac’s claim in November 1969 that he wore "transparent fingertip guards" made of airplane cement is cited as evidence that he was clever enough to foil what was then law enforcement’s most conclusive evidence against a suspect. That boast, however, is repeated in contradiction with the facts reported by numerous investigators and recorded in dozens of local, state, and federal documents.

An examination of reports filed by the San Francisco Police Department, the Vallejo Police Department, the Napa County Sheriff’s Department, the California Department of Justice, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation reveals that the Zodiac may actually have been rather sloppy both in the construction of his letters to the press and at the scenes of some of his attacks. At least two lifts were taken from the July, 1969, letter to the Vallejo Times-Herald, and it appears that an additional print was found on the cipher-block sent to the San Francisco Examiner, both part of the killer’s very first mailing. Additionally, two "fingerprint of value" were developed on the second and third pages of the killer’s next letter, his August 1969 missive to the Examiner. These were developed by the FBI Laboratory, whose Latent Fingerprint Section would perform almost all of the ensuing print work for the case and store it under Latent Case #A-10042.

The Napa County Sheriff’s Department found several finger- and palm-prints following the attack at Lake Berryessa. While the numerous impressions found on Bryan Hartnell’s Kharmann Ghia were mentioned only in passing and are probably unrelated to the attack, four prints of note were found among 35 developed in the phone booth where the Zodiac placed his call to the Napa Police Department. Of particular interest was a clear palm-print found on the receiver – it was still off the hook, and the print was still wet, indicating that it had been left by the last person to use the phone, presumably the killer. To evidence technician Harold Snook’s great shame, however, the print was not given enough time to dry, and it was ruined in the lifting process.

The three youths who witnessed the immediate aftermath of Paul Stine’s murder watched as the killer proceeded to wipe down certain areas of Stine’s cab. He was, no doubt, trying to obliterate any prints he may have left – an action that would be pointless if his fingertips had been covered with guards. Further, while the witnesses were specific in their description of a wiping action, they saw nothing that could be interpreted as the planting of false prints from the time the killer exited the cab to the time he left the area. Regardless, SFPD crime lab technicians developed dozens of prints in and on the cab. Among these were several that, according to an SFPD memo, "show traces of blood [and] are believed to be prints of the suspect". Most of these came from the post between the driver’s side front and rear doors. In addition, wrote an SFPD Inspector, "latent prints from right front door handle are also believed to be prints of the suspect". It should be noted that these prints featured the loops, whorls, and textures that would be missing if the killer’s fingers were coated in airplane cement or any other medium.

The letter that followed this attack, claiming Stine as a victim, also bore fingerprints: another FBI report says that SFPD "stated that latent prints were obtained from the [10/13/69] letter".

Only in the next letter, sent November 9, 1969, did the Zodiac make any claim about masking his fingerprints. Again, this claim would be counterproductive if, as some theorists maintain, the Zodiac had left false prints in the cab: after all, why would the killer go to the trouble of leaving such a red herring only to deny that it existed? A more reasonable explanation is that the Zodiac knew the police had not only handwriting and fingerprints, but now a good physical description, as well, and the "transparent guards" claim was a desperate bid to instill doubt in the SFPD. Nonetheless, prints were found on the killer’s greeting card of April 28, 1970, and according to a San Francisco detective, "the latents were not made by persons handling the card after its receipt".

A 1969 FBI report categorized SFPD’s prints into "thirty latent fingerprints, three latent palm-prints, and one latent impression (fingerprint from lower joint area of a finger or palm print)". Only two, belonging to Paul Stine and an unidentified police officer or newspaperman, were ever identified. The number of fingerprints submitted to the FBI Lab by San Francisco and Vallejo Police was later raised to 38, a figure that does not include the lifts made by the Napa County Sheriff’s Department. While the great majority of these prints are probably unrelated to the case, there is a high degree of probability that some of them do belong to the killer, and that he could be identified through a match with one or more of them.

Law enforcement confidence in the prints appears to be high. Literally hundreds of suspects were checked against them, including Arthur Leigh Allen, the most widely known. In Allen’s case, Vallejo Police requested that the FBI "expeditiously compare" his prints to the two latents developed on the August 1969 Examiner letter, and "further requested [the FBI] to compare Allen’s fingerprints with all latent prints developed in the Zodiac investigation as time permits." There was no match and Allen was "dismissed as a suspect", shedding light on the faith that both local and federal authorities maintain in their evidence.



Nin, Subject: right/lefthanded Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:46 pm

I agree the letters have been written with the right hand (check out the limits or reach of the letters among else). That does not neccessarily mean Zodiac was righthanded. He could have been ambidextrous with one main hand or true ambidextrous.

Is it certain that Zodiac shot Stine from behind? Because if not he could have shot Paul Stine with the left hand from the side. If He did shoot Stine from behind, he could have used his less dominant hand, which would be the right one in this case.

I firmly believe Zodiac was ambidextrous, with one main hand (left). Why I think he was dominantly lefthanded? Because he did not switch back and forth in his letters with the right or left hand. He consistently used the same hand, the right hand. This was part of his disguise IMO. Of course being more or less equally adept in the use of both hands in real life would make the task of finding Zodiac per handwriting sample among else a very difficult one. He could have just aimed for that.

-Nin



Zamantha, Subject: right hand vs left hand* Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:22 pm

I concur, I vote ambidextrous.
In the Zodiac Unmasked: Sherwood said Z was probably writing with his right hand in all the letters. And Post Inspector John Simock (? ) felt the same way.



morf13, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:27 pm

Detective Shumway, from Riverside PD, told me that the Bates letter writer(possibly Zodiac) wrote the letters with their weak hand.



tahoe27, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:00 am

I agree, although at times I think he switched up.

In some of the letters, it almost looks like two different people traded off. Pressure is another thing I noticed. Within the same letter you will see a sentence or two very bold, then lighter, then bold again. The Dragon Card is an example: http://www.zodiackiller.com/DragonCard.html

So is the button letter: http://www.zodiackiller.com/ZButtonLetter.html

, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:52 am

I have looked through most of the police reports and do not see anywhere any description of the surviving witnesses of which hand he held the gun or knife in, I would believe that he would use the dominant hand, MM and BH both saw him wield the gun, in MM’s case with torch in BH’s case he also used the knife, Cecilia also before she died had a chance to talk to Mrs White and one of the rangers, yet out of all three of them there is no description of which hand esp he held the gun in. Also in the two pages of the Stine report by Pelessetti there is the report of him moving around the cab wiping but no description of which hand he was using, again I would presume he would be using his dominant hand, I find this rather odd.

If shooting from the back seat he could use his right hand, if he was sitting up front I believe he would use his left, it would also be easier then to push the body away from him and start cutting the shirt away if he was in the front.

Just like to add that I am right handed, yet my handwriting slants to the right because of something I have done since school. Because I used to find sitting at tiny school desks uncomfortable, I never liked writing with my page sitting vertically in front of me and I used to pile jotters and other books at the top of my desk, making space cramped, so since Primary School I have alway’s turned the page on it’s side so that it is horizontal in front of me and write on the paper like that with my arm horizontal along the desk as though resting in front of me, a result of writing like that is that my writing slants to the right, if I turn the page vertical (as most people do) my writing doesn’t slant. I do get odd looks from people if I write in front of them, the last time I was in the bank signing stuff for instance, but I find it quite normal. Z could have done the same thing, try it turn an A4 sized lined sheet on its side and write as neatly as you can you will see your writing will slant to the right.

, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:25 am

Those are interesting observations, Solar Pons. Personally, I think that MM and BH would have noticed if the Zodiac had been using his left hand. But, since most people use their right hand, they may not have commented about it, since they didn’t see anything unusual about it.

I am left handed and it is very seldom that I write that someone doesn’t make a comment. (That is partly because I too turn my page horizontally. But, that is because I used to have write around the rings on school binders.)

, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:30 am

I find it strange that in all the encounters that no one mentions anywhere which hand he was using, you would think it would be in there somewhere, like used right hand to wipe etc. I shall probably spend today going over it all again.

Us horizontal page writers should get together, the looks I have had, to me it’s perfectly normal. I used to think it strange whenever Graysmith would go on about overhead projectors and all that kind of thing, I would think nah, just turn the page on it’s side, and if you want to copy use a lightbox.

Edit: Look at the writing on the letters and how it slants, esp when he writes Vallejo, then look at the writing on the car door at Berryessa, the lettering there sits straighter, hard to turn a door on it’s side, I think he was rotating his paper, from vertical to horizontal to get the slant. Right Handed.



tahoe27, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:43 am

I believe he was primarily left handed. Bryan stated the knife sheath was on Zodiac’s right side. Seems then, he would need his left side free for his gun.

I also felt with David being shot on the left side of his head, the shooter was left-handed. A couple of times, the way he wrote the "circle" in the circle-cross seemed to be in the opposite direction of what a right-hander would do.

But I do agree with Nin that he probably used his right hand–for the most part, to write.

, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:05 am

Is it certain that Zodiac shot Stine from behind? Because if not he could have shot Paul Stine with the left hand from the side. If He did shoot Stine from behind, he could have used his less dominant hand, which would be the right one in this case. (Nin quote.)

Nin, I have been thinking about what you said here. Today, I don’t know whether people sit in the front seat or back seat of taxis. But, in those days, it seems to me, people use to sit in the back seat. As a matter of fact, I think that it would have seemed odd if someone sat in the front seat. Although, I must admit that I have had very few taxi rides in my life time.

Maybe, without getting too far off the subject, someone who grew up during that time can comment on this?

-Nin



Zamantha, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:26 am

Rode in Lot’s of Taxi’s growing up in Vallejo. I would take them with my grandmother. YOU would always sit in the back seat, unless there were 3 passengers. So, I would think Z was in the back seat.



bentley, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:45 am

A couple of years ago a new technique was announced for developing prints from guns and shell casings that have been wiped clean. Could be useful for the Z shell casings (if they have not been contaminated) to determine if the shell casings found have matching prints, prints matching the cab/phone booth, if the bullets were loaded with the right or left hand and ultimately if a usable full print could be lifted. Don’t know if LE has pursued this.

http://www.gizmag.com/the-indelible-fingerprint/9519/



AK Wilks, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:12 am

Bentley – I hope they do that method, but I doubt that they have.

Tahoe – The drawing shows Z using his right hand to hold the gun. I think that drawing is based on Hartnell’s statements.



Nin, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:57 pm

I agree, although at times I think he switched up.

In some of the letters, it almost looks like two different people traded off. Pressure is another thing I noticed. Within the same letter you will see a sentence or two very bold, then lighter, then bold again. The Dragon Card is an example: http://www.zodiackiller.com/DragonCard.html

So is the button letter: http://www.zodiackiller.com/ZButtonLetter.html

The alternating pressure while writing with a felt pen (that was another smart thing to use btw..) is typical for an ambidextrous individual using the non dominant hand. The "weaker" hand is not as much at ease as the main hand when writing.

-Nin



tahoe27, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:04 pm

Tahoe – The drawing shows Z using his right hand to hold the gun. I think that drawing is based on Hartnell’s statements.

While I actually like Graysmith, I think referring to his book rather than the police reports, could put a lot of innaccurate info out there. ;)

http://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport24.html



AK Wilks, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:36 pm

Right I wasn’t going by his book, but by the drawing of Z holding the gun in his right hand. Which may or may not be accurate.



tahoe27, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:46 pm

Sorry–since the picture was drawn by Graysmith, I jumped to the conclusion of the book…which is pretty much where it came from.

If we judge the drawing based off of Bryan’s statement, then the drawing would be incorrect. :)



AK Wilks, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:34 pm

On the issue of the knife sheath, yes, it appears you would be right. And given that we are talking about Graysmith, why am I not shocked? :)

Have you found any statement from Hartnell about which hand the gun was in? I admit I would be a little bit surprised if Graysmith also got that wrong, but I suppose it is possible.



tahoe27, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:10 pm

Nothing on which hand the gun was in.

But, I don’t see his gun holster being on the same side and his knife sheath, so it would seem his gun holster would be on the left side. ??



sandy betts, Subject: ambidextrous Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:54 pm

I believe he used his right hand more than his left, but it had been said that he is ambidextrous.
I have a picture of my poi working with concrete, he was using both hands at the same time. The other person working with him, was useing only one hand, both working on the same section of sidewalk.

entropy, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:13 pm

I’m surprised nobody has mentioned Z’s creation of his own symbol in this thread. In every confirmed letter, Z appears to draw the circle portion of this symbol counterclockwise beginning around the 1 o’clock position. I’m right-handed and that’s exactly how I would draw a circle. In fact, it’s awkward to draw a clockwise circle.

Try it yourself… I’d be curious how any lefties would naturally draw circles.



sandy betts, Subject: Right or left ? Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:26 pm

I agree with Tahoe , you need to read the reports to be sure to get closer to the truth. Not that Graysmith gets the info wrong, its the source from which he gets it that was wrong. I think that has happened to most of us ?
I can see where Harnell could have said the knife was on right, he could have meant it was on Hartnell’s right, which would be on the Z”s left side. I did that when asked which eye on my poi was bad ? I said right, but it was I looking at him .
Both are bad as far as I am concerned . One has a squint, and the other floats in all directions. I am not making fun of his eyes, that is the way they are.



zodio, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Sun May 01, 2011 1:33 am

In the K Johns interview that comes with Howard’s book she said ‘Z’ carried the lugwrench in his left hand.



sandy betts, Subject: Right or Left handed ? Sun May 01, 2011 1:05 pm

In the K Johns interview that comes with Howard’s book she said ‘Z’ carried the lugwrench in his left hand.

He is known to be ambidextrous. I hold and carry things in my left hand , but I am right handed.
Example : When bringing my groceries into my home. I carry them in my left hand , so I can use my right hand to unlock the door. I wish I was ambidextrous but I am not.
I and others are pretty sure he used his right hand to write most of his letters, you can tell by the way the letters are leaning.

Its been said that he could have used his left hand to write the note to CJB’s father. The letters are rather sloppy, unlike most of his right handed letters.



rand, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:08 pm

Is it certain that Zodiac shot Stine from behind? Because if not he could have shot Paul Stine with the left hand from the side. If He did shoot Stine from behind, he could have used his less dominant hand, which would be the right one in this case. (Nin quote.)

Nin, I have been thinking about what you said here. Today, I don’t know whether people sit in the front seat or back seat of taxis. But, in those days, it seems to me, people use to sit in the back seat. As a matter of fact, I think that it would have seemed odd if someone sat in the front seat. Although, I must admit that I have had very few taxi rides in my life time.

Maybe, without getting too far off the subject, someone who grew up during that time can comment on this?

-Nin

It’s been confirmed: Z was sitting in the front seat of the cab. I believe that Z was left-handed.



morf13, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:38 pm

Anyone know which hand was used to stab the victims at Berryessa? Has Bryan ever discussed that? And also in the Bates case, does anyone know from the stab wounds if it can be determined which hand her killer stabbed her with?



AK Wilks, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:36 pm

It is not confirmed that Zodiac was in the front seat when he shot Stine. How could it be confirmed, as nobody witnessed the shooting? And when you look at a bullet hole on a body, you can’t tell if the gun was in a right or left hand, or if the shooter was in the front or back seat.

TV posted a chart that has info stating Zodiac was in the front seat when he shot Stine. But that information shows up nowhere that I have seen in the SFPD or FBI files. It likely comes from early information that speculated that Zodiac was the same person responsible for earlier cab robberies. Zodiac may have been (in which case he is described as 25 years old and 160 pounds) or he may not be.

The first wanted poster reflected early police thinking that Zodiac and the cab robber were one and the same. I actually think this may be true, but it is not proven. And, even if the robber was Zodiac, just because he sat in the front seat for one robbery doesn’t prove that he did the same for Stine, though it would be more likely.



traveller1st, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:46 am

When I was looking at the trim marks on the skeleton on the halloween card I was pretty sure they had been done with someone using the scalpel/craft knife in their right hand based on my own experiences of working with scalpels to cut out artwork.

I’m left handed and couldn’t write a thing with my right hand. That being said I play guitar right handed, use scissors with my right hand, use a mouse with my right hand. So I don’t know what category that qualifies as – semi maybe?

Then there’s something I discovered in the last few years and it’s that I can use a power jigsaw and other tools with either hand.

Nice spot on the report about the knife being on the right side. I wonder about it being towards the front – to me that would make it accessible with either hand although arguably left for a holding position more suitable to thrusting and right for stabbing if that makes sense.

My own feeling is he wrote with his right but may have used his left for other things.

Richard, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:01 am

Most people I know who wear sheath knives or folding knives in holsters, tend to wear them on the same side as their dominant hand.

A "cross draw" carry for a knife would be rare. One reason for that is that it would tend to get in the way and could cause problems when sitting down. Stick yourself in the leg once and you would re-evaluate your carry style. It is best to carry a sheath knife slightly aft of the seam on your trousers to prevent sticking yourself when sitting down or kneeling.

A departure from this would be if a person were wearing a pistol in a holster as well. In that case, the pistol would most likely be on the dominant hand side, with the long sheath knife on the opposite side. A folding knife would probably still be on the dominant side, but back on the belt from the pistol holster.



Luke68, Subject: Re: Was the Zodiac Right Handed or Left Handed? Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:22 pm

The photos of The bullet holes in Betty Lou Jensen’s back would indicate the killer was shooting with is right hand.


I don’t know Chief, he’s very smart or very dumb.

 
Posted : May 21, 2013 8:44 pm
Victor
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I’d say right handed but a minor a detail without first determining motive which greatly narrows the suspects.

"Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it." George Costanza from Seinfeld

 
Posted : June 30, 2013 7:01 am
Welsh Chappie
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I’d say right handed but a minor a detail without first determining motive which greatly narrows the suspects.

Well if you say he’s right handed, then it must be true. But anyway, having nominated yourself as Judge and Jury to decide what is important and what isn’t, Luke’s legitimate question , you have ruled, is insignificant and doesn’t matter really. But, Sir, If I may be permitted to put one question to yourself, your excellency, I would like to ask this…

What the hell are you talking about??? No offence, oh self appointed one, but what the hell has Zodiac’s motive got to do with which hand he used when writing his letters? Or am I missing something, like a point? Are we to next hear "Zodiac’s age is a minor issue until we are able to determine what colour his socks were?"

"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.

 
Posted : June 30, 2013 8:04 am
Victor
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I’d say right handed but a minor a detail without first determining motive which greatly narrows the suspects.

Well if you say he’s right handed, then it must be true. But anyway, having nominated yourself as Judge and Jury to decide what is important and what isn’t, Luke’s legitimate question , you have ruled, is insignificant and doesn’t matter really. But, Sir, If I may be permitted to put one question to yourself, your excellency, I would like to ask this…

What the hell are you talking about??? No offence, oh self appointed one, but what the hell has Zodiac’s motive got to do with which hand he used when writing his letters? Or am I missing something, like a point? Are we to next hear "Zodiac’s age is a minor issue until we are able to determine what colour his socks were?"

Welsh Chappie
The way to solve a murder is determining the motive which should greatly narrow down the number of suspects. Sure which arm he favored may very will come into play later but I disagree with the approach of picking a likely suspect based on circumstantial evidence, then trying to pin the crime on him.
Respectfully

"Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it." George Costanza from Seinfeld

 
Posted : June 30, 2013 6:40 pm
Welsh Chappie
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"The way to solve a murder is determining the motive which should greatly narrow down the number of suspects." Do we know that Zodiac had a motive? His crimes, just like his victims, were completely random and followed no known pattern. He struck at night, and struck at day. He used a gun, he used a knife. His victims were young couples, then he shot a lone taxi driver. He struck in quiet secluded areas, then in the middle of Presidio Heights, S.F. What if he really was telling the truth when he said "I like killing people because it is so much fun"? If so, there is your motive. How can that now help up narrow down the pool of suspects? How can we use this to assist any investigation? I don’t think you can. If, and I mean IF, Zodiac’s motive for murder really was because he just liked to kill people, then that’s not going to be much help in catching him.

"I disagree with the approach of picking a likely suspect based on circumstantial evidence, then trying to pin the crime on him." Who are you saying is doing that? And please could you give your reasons for suggesting they are doing it?

"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.

 
Posted : July 1, 2013 7:54 pm
Victor
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"The way to solve a murder is determining the motive which should greatly narrow down the number of suspects." Do we know that Zodiac had a motive? His crimes, just like his victims, were completely random and followed no known pattern. He struck at night, and struck at day. He used a gun, he used a knife. His victims were young couples, then he shot a lone taxi driver. He struck in quiet secluded areas, then in the middle of Presidio Heights, S.F. What if he really was telling the truth when he said "I like killing people because it is so much fun"? If so, there is your motive. How can that now help up narrow down the pool of suspects? How can we use this to assist any investigation? I don’t think you can. If, and I mean IF, Zodiac’s motive for murder really was because he just liked to kill people, then that’s not going to be much help in catching him.

"I disagree with the approach of picking a likely suspect based on circumstantial evidence, then trying to pin the crime on him." Who are you saying is doing that? And please could you give your reasons for suggesting they are doing it?

Welsh Chappie
Don’t take offense as I am simply giving my opinion and not reprimanding anyone.
Regards

"Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it." George Costanza from Seinfeld

 
Posted : July 1, 2013 8:01 pm
Welsh Chappie
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"Welsh Chappie
Don’t take offense as I am simply giving my opinion and not reprimanding anyone."

I didn’t take offence. I was just asking if you would please explain what you meant by "I disagree with the approach of picking a likely suspect based on circumstantial evidence, then trying to pin the crime on him". I assume you must be referring to someone about some suspect, otherwise the remark would be completely random and I don’t understand your reason for making it.

"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.

 
Posted : July 1, 2013 8:32 pm
Quicktrader
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Posts: 2598
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Welsh, this part of the forum is about Z being left or right handed, not about Zs motives.

Actually there are two ways, bottom-up or top-down. Or something inbetween. Or reading the police reports, as far as I know Bryan Hartnell had mentioned that Z had his pistol in his right hand. At no point, Z was using his left hand more than his right one, which is why I do believe he definitely is no left-hander.

No way to find a killer just based on such an aspect, and with all respect, no need to call Viktor ‘to your excellency’ either. Come up with facts, things unknown to this board, e.g. unknown autopsy or police reports. You’re the right guy to tickle police officers to come up with more stuff, so don’t tickle Viktor. ;)

QT

*ZODIACHRONOLOGY*

 
Posted : July 1, 2013 8:57 pm
Victor
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Posts: 217
Estimable Member
 

Welsh, this part of the forum is about Z being left or right handed, not about Zs motives.

Actually there are two ways, bottom-up or top-down. Or something inbetween. Or reading the police reports, as far as I know Bryan Hartnell had mentioned that Z had his pistol in his right hand. At no point, Z was using his left hand more than his right one, which is why I do believe he definitely is no left-hander.

No way to find a killer just based on such an aspect, and with all respect, no need to call Viktor ‘to your excellency’ either. Come up with facts, things unknown to this board, e.g. unknown autopsy or police reports. You’re the right guy to tickle police officers to come up with more stuff, so don’t tickle Viktor. ;)

QT

Why thank you kindly, QT.

"Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it." George Costanza from Seinfeld

 
Posted : July 1, 2013 9:15 pm
Victor
(@victor)
Posts: 217
Estimable Member
 

"Welsh Chappie
Don’t take offense as I am simply giving my opinion and not reprimanding anyone."

I didn’t take offence. I was just asking if you would please explain what you meant by "I disagree with the approach of picking a likely suspect based on circumstantial evidence, then trying to pin the crime on him". I assume you must be referring to someone about some suspect, otherwise the remark would be completely random and I don’t understand your reason for making it.

Welsh Chappie and All,
Shortly after becoming a member on this MB, I formulated what I thought to be a "good theory"[1] and even consulted with Morph and smithy if my replying to others with a predisposition to my theory was going to be offensive to others and it has not been a problem till now. So I apologize to everyone if I sound biased or judgmental, not that I am pushing or naming my suspect(s) but only implying how I came to mine and possibly help you with your investigation(s).

Regards

1. ref: viewtopic.php?f=96&t=645&hilit=fringe+theory

"Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it." George Costanza from Seinfeld

 
Posted : July 1, 2013 9:32 pm
Welsh Chappie
(@welsh-chappie)
Posts: 1538
Noble Member
 

"Welsh, this part of the forum is about Z being left or right handed, not about Zs motives."

Q.T, What are you telling me for? Please scroll up the page and tell me who it was that stated "The way to solve a murder is determining the motive which should greatly narrow down the number of suspects."
I was simply responding.

"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.

 
Posted : July 2, 2013 1:48 am
Victor
(@victor)
Posts: 217
Estimable Member
 

"Welsh, this part of the forum is about Z being left or right handed, not about Zs motives."

Q.T, What are you telling me for? Please scroll up the page and tell me who it was that stated "The way to solve a murder is determining the motive which should greatly narrow down the number of suspects."
I was simply responding.

Welsh Chappie,
You weren’t responding rather nicely was our point.
No need to jump on QT, as well.

"Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it." George Costanza from Seinfeld

 
Posted : July 2, 2013 2:11 am
Quicktrader
(@quicktrader)
Posts: 2598
Famed Member
 

Staya calma guys, Z is right-handed – closed.

*ZODIACHRONOLOGY*

 
Posted : July 2, 2013 4:35 am
Tahoe27
(@tahoe27)
Posts: 5315
Member Moderator
 

He was left-handed. Closed. :lol:

Seriously though..nobody knows and there is proof of nothing.

Bryan says in police reports the knife was on the right side. Seems you would put the gun on the side of the hand you would normally use, but he could have just reached over. See? We can go around all day…


…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep. L.A. Times, 1969

 
Posted : July 2, 2013 4:39 am
Victor
(@victor)
Posts: 217
Estimable Member
 

Problem solved, I added him to Foes.
I figured it was never going to end.

"Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it." George Costanza from Seinfeld

 
Posted : July 2, 2013 5:51 am
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