Zodiac Discussion Forum

Notifications
Clear all

Could this card be from a hoaxer?

53 Posts
16 Users
0 Likes
6,428 Views
(@mccririck)
Posts: 66
Trusted Member
Topic starter
 

What evidence is there to believe it is from the real Zodiac?

Note there was a thread started in 2013 about this card and a few others: viewtopic.php?f=78&t=168

 
Posted : June 2, 2020 11:42 am
(@cragle)
Posts: 767
Prominent Member
 

A piece of Paul Stines shirt ! :lol:

 
Posted : June 2, 2020 12:05 pm
Richard Grinell
(@richard-grinell)
Posts: 717
Prominent Member
 

The configuration of paradice and slaves can be generated in the 340 cipher, bisecting it vertically and horizontally, 17 by 17 in cruciform, so either the Halloween card author discovered this connection, or he was the creator of the 340 cipher, which means he was the author of the Bus Bomb letter & sender of the shirt piece. It would also mean he was the author of the October 13th 1969 letter and Melvin Belli correspondence – and the murderer of Paul Stine. Also, the Halloween card has "by knife", which was written on the car door at Berryessa and wasn’t released into the public domain. If you chuck out the Halloween card from the Zodiac communications, then you have to chuck out all the above communications too – along with the Stine murder. The Halloween card was 100% Zodiac.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/

“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.

 
Posted : June 2, 2020 12:48 pm
(@mccririck)
Posts: 66
Trusted Member
Topic starter
 

Right, firstly, this card did not come with a piece of shirt. Let’s make that clear.
Secondly where is the evidence for the 340 cipher containing paradise / slaves? It has never been decoded properly. Perhaps someone has forced that out of it but that does not mean it’s correct!

 
Posted : June 2, 2020 5:37 pm
(@zodiacsleuth)
Posts: 4
New Member
 

A piece of Paul Stines shirt ! :lol:

A piece of Paul Stines shirt was never mailed alongside the card.
There is no evidence at all that this card was mailed by the same man committing each of the murders.

 
Posted : June 2, 2020 6:11 pm
(@masootz)
Posts: 415
Reputable Member
 

Right, firstly, this card did not come with a piece of shirt. Let’s make that clear.
Secondly where is the evidence for the 340 cipher containing paradise / slaves? It has never been decoded properly. Perhaps someone has forced that out of it but that does not mean it’s correct!

if you look at the cipher without decoding and make some inferences you can kind of, sort of, maybe eke out something akin to PARADICE in the center going down vertically and SLAVES horizontally. there are also some indications of "by fire", "by rope", etc in each quadrant. it appears to be more than chance but so does a lot of zynchronistic pieces of the puzzle.

 
Posted : June 2, 2020 6:12 pm
(@cragle)
Posts: 767
Prominent Member
 

A piece of Paul Stines shirt ! :lol:

A piece of Paul Stines shirt was never mailed alongside the card.
There is no evidence at all that this card was mailed by the same man committing each of the murders.

It was a joke alluding to the zodiac movie hence the laughing emoji. Apologies if this was unclear.

 
Posted : June 2, 2020 6:38 pm
Jarlve
(@jarlve)
Posts: 2547
Famed Member
 

What evidence is there to believe it is from the real Zodiac?

I don’t know but it is in his style. I agree that it could be a hoax.

Zodiac sourced allot of stuff, also true for this card.

The "sorry no cipher " writing is very Zodiac.

AZdecrypt

 
Posted : June 2, 2020 7:08 pm
(@cragle)
Posts: 767
Prominent Member
 

Personally I agree with Richard, like he states above the “By knife” on the car door, which was not common knowledge at the time, being included in the card is just too coincidental in my mind. Also the fact that the N was written the wrong way around thus drawing attention to that particular phrase on the card just seems too similar to be a copycat. But who knows.

 
Posted : June 2, 2020 7:18 pm
Richard Grinell
(@richard-grinell)
Posts: 717
Prominent Member
 

Right, firstly, this card did not come with a piece of shirt. Let’s make that clear.
Secondly where is the evidence for the 340 cipher containing paradise / slaves? It has never been decoded properly. Perhaps someone has forced that out of it but that does not mean it’s correct!

I was careful to say in the above post that the 340 cipher can "generate" paradice and slaves (not containing), which is fact. Not only that, but it can generate paradice and slaves exactly bisecting the 340 cipher both horizontally and vertically in the same fashion as the design on the Halloween card. This is the first "coincidence". Then of course, we can find By Fire, By Gun, By Knife and By Rope in the correct quadrants. That is the second "coincidence". Then somehow this author just happened to include the "by knife" attribution, which was written on the Karmann Ghia but unknown to the public. This is the third "coincidence". Then we have "sorry no cipher" fashioned into another cross. Why do you suppose he didn’t write it once? I’ll let you work that out. I could give you several other reasons in combination with the 13 Hole postcard, but I suspect you already decided it was a hoax before you asked the question.

It is probably better approached by you giving 5 reasons why the communication is not Zodiac.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/

“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.

 
Posted : June 2, 2020 9:37 pm
doranchak
(@doranchak)
Posts: 2614
Member Admin
 

For what it’s worth, here are FBI file excerpts showing what their examination of the Halloween card produced:

http://zodiackillerciphers.com

 
Posted : June 2, 2020 11:01 pm
doranchak
(@doranchak)
Posts: 2614
Member Admin
 

Then somehow this author just happened to include the "by knife" attribution, which was written on the Karmann Ghia but unknown to the public. This is the third "coincidence".

To be fair, the public articles about the attack included the facts that rope and knife were involved.

http://zodiackillerciphers.com

 
Posted : June 2, 2020 11:04 pm
Richard Grinell
(@richard-grinell)
Posts: 717
Prominent Member
 

Then somehow this author just happened to include the "by knife" attribution, which was written on the Karmann Ghia but unknown to the public. This is the third "coincidence".

To be fair, the public articles about the attack included the facts that rope and knife were involved.

That is true Dave, but the fact the author made the exact same reference of "by knife" and featured it prominently alongside the other methods of death in a special arrangement, highlighted more its significance. If the author of the Halloween card had just written "I attacked the couple at Berryessa by knife", then its significance could be lessened. The Zodiac, however, featured the wording "by knife" in a standalone phrase, rather than incorporating it within a sentence describing his attack.

Also, of all the things the author could have added to the Halloween card, he just happened to use "by knife" on its own, when these were the only two words on the car door not revealed to the newspapers.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/

“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.

 
Posted : June 2, 2020 11:31 pm
traveller1st
(@traveller1st)
Posts: 3583
Member Moderator
 

Wanted to add this into the mix as one of many reasons (I think) this is most likely genuine. One of the things zodiac did was employ multiple styles as we all know. Despite this the underlying authorship ‘shows through’ as you compare all of his communications together. You can even see it here in what I’ve compared. I do want to highlight one thing in this however. It’s not widely used but I have come across it and made a mental note of it. Other’s might have seen it or commented on it as well.

It’s regarding some instances of his ‘lowercase c’. The top of it has a small, angled stroke. It exists from the Riverside communications right through to his last communications and of course including the Halloween Card. Not consistently of course. There are many communications where I don’t think he used it which makes me think it’s a styling choice. I’ve tried to show this with a few of the envelopes.


I don’t know Chief, he’s very smart or very dumb.

 
Posted : June 3, 2020 2:08 am
Jarlve
(@jarlve)
Posts: 2547
Famed Member
 

It’s regarding some instances of his ‘lowercase c’. The top of it has a small, angled stroke. It exists from the Riverside communications right through to his last communications and of course including the Halloween Card. Not consistently of course. There are many communications where I don’t think he used it which makes me think it’s a styling choice. I’ve tried to show this with a few of the envelopes.

Interesting, I never noticed it.

I have this thing where my "C", always the upper half, is often not closed enough, and when I know someone else may read the text, then I will amend the upper half to make sure it is not mistaken for "L".

AZdecrypt

 
Posted : June 3, 2020 6:21 pm
Page 1 / 4
Share: