It seems to says "FLYING VF BAK" just before the last cow. If that helps anything.

I believe that it reads "FLYING VF BAR" because there is a bar (straight line) under the VF part of the brand.

TRAV,could you maybe isolate and enhance the two symbols from the photos above and place them side by side?

It seems to says "FLYING VF BAK" just before the last cow. If that helps anything.

I believe that it reads "FLYING VF BAR" because there is a bar (straight line) under the VF part of the brand.

Thanks Deb, makes sense.

Thanks TRAV

Can I just add that the practice of combining a signature or a message in a moniker or brand is not new. There are instances of it stretching back to the middle ages and before. At that time they pertained to lineage and family. A Visual way of representing that information, to denote one’s own family, the information in the marks relayed info concerning heirs and sons etc. I bought a book on this recently and will scan and post anything I find interesting in it. It wasn’t new in the 50’s nor the 60’s nor … well you get the idea.

There have been many thread’s on this symbol. Someone even, quite rightly, posted this.

Might have been Nacht? Point is that symbols have been used for such a long time, and symbolism. Yes we’re pretty sure it’s not the Van Halen Logo lol but what it was, was most likely taken from it’s own time frame. Even if that was from ancient heraldry, that could well have been inspired from comic books. It’s a murky world to swim in another’s imagination.

As such I wouldn’t get too excited by finding such similarities in graphic representations. There is nothing new under the sun, we all take reference from somewhere. It’s that ‘taking of reference’ that I find most interesting in instances like this. They could well be Z’s influences.

The words used are enough for me to work from here. "Death By". Perhaps Glurk’s observation on the ‘by’ might be interesting, I don’t know (Good spot though and I will have to check that one out), has that already been answered? I don’t see anything in the handwriting that says Z to me.

A good piece of the puzzle nevertheless. We are, at best, building a picture. Or, at the very end we might make a massive u-turn. That is both or curse and our legacy. We are, however narrowing in on something, then, we begin again. Like Dr Who lol. I’m not dismissive of this idea, or thread. Not at all. I just like to point at things and make noises lol.

Lets remember though that he did use this symbol twice, on the card, but also on the envelope, in the ‘address’ space. Might add some importance to it, might not but It might. Maybe WC expressed this?

I’m not that excited yet. Maybe that doesn’t matter lol. I could be down the line. Even tomorrow. The glory of a forum.

The brand idea didn’t seem very promising when I first heard of it, but I must admit that it is a lot more intriguing in light of Tahoe’s Tim Holt/Redmask comic book find.

If anybody is interested, I found some pages online explaining how to read (or call) the brand. Here is one: http://www.cowboyshowcase.com/brands.ht … ing%20well

One paragraph made a comment worth thinking about:

Reading Brands
For many new livestock owners, the art of reading a brand is a mystery. Brands, to the inexperienced, resemble hieroglyphics; to the experienced livestock person, however, they become a readable language. With practice and an understanding of some important brand terms, the average person can easily acquire basic skills in reading brands.

If Z’s symbol is a livestock brand, is it readable?

Another thought–a more gruesome one, I am afraid. If it is a brand, could it have been one that he intended at some point to use on his victims?

(I don’t suppose there is an answer to the last question. I hope not, anyway, and I apologize if I seem spinning horrific thoughts without justification, but it seems to me branding would coincide with the idea of having slaves.)

G

Rand proposed the cattle brand theory quite a while back. Not sure if the thread is here but it will be on the old forum. I’ll bring it over if I get the time.

I know it was discussed at Tom’s mb as far back as 2007…maybe sooner. http://zodiackiller.fr.yuku.com/topic/1 … sEZ49JDuSo …and here: http://zodiackiller.fr.yuku.com/topic/3 … sEc6tJDuSo

This is the first I have seen the brand David Rayd mentions in his first post being in ZU. It IS the closest thing I have seen to the H.C. symbol!

Just a quick bump….the 3rd cow all the way on the right in this pic, anybody have any background info? Who found it, what ranch was it associated with,etc? Part of the cow got cut off in my repost,but in the pic in the earlier posts, you can see it.

By the way, I contacted the owner of the RED RYDER ranch in Southern CA, they opened up in 1980, a dead end apparently

I heard back from Harman’s son. The 2nd cow in the pic above was the one I was mostly interested in, but he told me about the markings of the 1st cow.

"7 4 1, represents the year my dad bought his last ranch in
the year of 1941. It was in Blanco Basin 20 miles south east Pagosa Springs,
Colorado"

Can you contact him again and ask for more info on cow #2?

Nice of him to reply.

Can you contact him again and ask for more info on cow #2?

Nice of him to reply.

I did,and he quickly replied this time-
"THE 2nd brand is the FLYING VF BAR which is my brand which I had registered in 1941. My family settled here Pagosa Springs Colorado aprox. 1879"

I had asked him if his Family had any ties or business in the SF Bay area.

Here is a live specimen:

More pictures and context here: dipperanch.blogspot.ca/2010/12/cattle-id.html

Can you contact him again and ask for more info on cow #2?

Nice of him to reply.

I did,and he quickly replied this time-
"THE 2nd brand is the FLYING VF BAR which is my brand which I had registered in 1941. My family settled here Pagosa Springs Colorado aprox. 1879"

I had asked him if his Family had any ties or business in the SF Bay area.

I’m curious was the "VF" signifies.

–Nice real shot _pi.

Can you contact him again and ask for more info on cow #2?

Nice of him to reply.

I did,and he quickly replied this time-
"THE 2nd brand is the FLYING VF BAR which is my brand which I had registered in 1941. My family settled here Pagosa Springs Colorado aprox. 1879"

I had asked him if his Family had any ties or business in the SF Bay area.

I’m curious was the "VF" signifies.

–Nice real shot _pi.

http://dipperanch.blogspot.dk/2010/12/cattle-id.html

"VF" I belive it stand for "Vince Fontana" (info in the link)

More info of interest in the link:

"Cowboy V marks his cattle on the left shoulder with a combined V F bar for Vince Fontana. When he delivers the cattle to the Dipper Ranch"

And…:

"Here’s a link to website showing branding of cattle on the original Big Dipper Ranch owned by the Cummings family. The Alpine Road corral shown in the photos at that website is the same corral shown here. I think this website was created by a longtime local rancher whose family formerly participated in those branding days. I am glad they saved those photos and posted them with vivid descriptions. There’s an old building on the lower part of the property that has burn marks of the Big Dipper constellation on it. I am guessing that is where they heated and tested the original branding irons."

Big Dipper ranch is located at: Alpine Road , La Honda Ca / Big Dipper Ranch rd , La Honda Ca

This ranch was owned by a Jon Clark Cummings back in the 50s/60s/70s

U.S., Social Security Death Index, 1935-Current
about Jon Cummings
Name: Jon Cummings
SSN: 521-36-5358
BORN: 30 Apr 1930
Last Benefit: 94025 Menlo Park, San Mateo, California, United States of America
Died: Dec 1986
State (Year) SSN issued: Colorado (Before 1951)

California, Death Index, 1940-1997
about Jon Clark Cummings
Name: Jon Clark Cummings
Social Security #: 521365358
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 30 Apr 1930
Birth Place: New York
Death Date: 18 Dec 1986
Death Place: Santa Clara
Mother’s Maiden Name: Clark

Hmm interesting Foreigner.

The Guy also wrote a book(s)-
http://books.google.com/books/about/Rec … YQAAAAIAAJ

http://books.google.com/books?id=pyMhAQ … 22&f=false

Guessing he was a geologist?
http://www.worldcat.org/title/geology-o … /254353832

His Stanford pic from 1952 is below-

Seems he also was involved in this project near San Bernardino (in the 50’s)-
http://books.google.com/books/about/Pet … gQAAAAIAAJ

in the 9/24/64 Hayward Review, there is an article stating he was joining the staff at Cal State (Calif State College at Hayward)

A bunch of his papers can be found here-
http://searchworks.stanford.edu/view/1174582

Can you contact him again and ask for more info on cow #2?

My favorite post of the year so far.

Zodiac placed the VF symbol in the return address spot on the envelope as though it were a place.
At Lake Herman Road and through out the more rural areas surrounding, there are cattle ranches.
Stella Borges (her maiden name) was from one of these known ranches. Are there not similar VF cattle
brands for California registered somewhere?

The Cattle ranch angle is of interest. There are cattle ranches in Riverside county too.