Ok I am the old lady in this group. I owned many pants dress’s. It was a one piece outfit that usually had a long zipper down the back unless it was of stretchy material had a tie around the neck . I sent a picture to Tracer’s of what a slack dress/ pant dress looked like. I also own a pair of palazzo pants, that is something different. When you have on one of these pant dress’s and you are standing with your legs together , it looks like a long dress. when you are walking or crossing your legs you can tell it is a pant dress.
Horan and I went round and round about this. He has congratulated me on finding a picture of what they looked like. The pattern that was on Darlene’s out fit was called a Lanze print ( not sure of the correct spelling ) That was who the designer was of that type of print.
I, too, am familiar with the pantdress, sometimes called a jumpsuit, Sandy! Not sure if any of these are what Tracers posted for you at Tom’s but these are similar. Pantdresses had a variety of necklines, sleeve options and leg widths but the two things they all had in common is that they were one piece and that below the waist they could mistaken for a dress when you were standing.
T., OK, yes, that’s what I thought. I think the movie was fantastically well done, too. Moving trees and all that? Pretty darn impressive.
The Zodiac wrote "girl was wearing patterned pants". Is that what she was wearing?Yes…the bottom were pants and they had a pattern.
But they weren’t JUST pants, then?
See, I can understand why Lundblad would be confused. Or perhaps it’s just men who would be confused!
When I read the list of her clothes I thought they’d just missed out what top she was wearing, but they hadn’t, they’d just not said that she was wearing "pants with a top which is in the same fabric". Like a "onesie".
I heard Mr Horan praised you Sandy – so I guess your picture (?) was the closest to what HE thinks she was wearing?
Personally I suppose it was closest to number 4, Seagull, which is like the film, but not quite, since the top was more like a halter top, without straps going over the shoulders. Is that right?
And I guess if it was slightly shorter than ankle length, it could be mistaken for "patterned pants" but also be described as a "slack dress" by the confused old Lundblad.
If the Zodiac had said "the girl was wearing patterned pants and top" that would have pleased everybody. Including me.
Voila!
You’ve got the right idea Smithy! There was no blouse listed on the property report and what Lundblad listed as a "slack dress" was, to him, a one piece outfit.
Ah! I’m getting there D.!
Tahoe, you are naughty, Lundblad was the old guy hanging around at LHR saying crazy stuff. It’s Sgt. John P.Lynch on the property report.
http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/galler … fullsize=1
Ah! I’m getting there D.!
Tahoe, you are naughty, Lundblad was the old guy hanging around at LHR saying crazy stuff. It’s Sgt. John P.Lynch on the property report.
http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/galler … fullsize=1
Yes…of course…my bad. Lynch. I knew Lundblad wasn’t BRS. Sorry.
Here is exactly what she wore. I snatched it off the Zodiac documentary. (I too called them jumpsuits Seagull)
That another oddity about this case. You have Mageau describe his attacker as ‘young looking, early 20’s, short curly hair’ aswel as several people who spoke to him describe him as ‘Young sounding, early to mid 20’s’. Then you have the Presidio Witnesses, and Don Fouke, describe the suspect as 35 – 45 years old, crew cut blonde hair’.
Then you have Zodiac himself adding to the confusion. One minute he sounds more the Presidio Witnesses age range with his use of English like ‘Slacks’, and ‘Negro Male’ (opposed to the colloquial term ‘Black’), and his quoting of the Opera. Then in other letters/comments he sounds like the more immature early 20’s Zodiac described by Mageau with the taunt "Hey pig doesnt it rile you up to have your noze rubed in your booboos?" and "This is the Zodiac speaking I though you would need a good laugh before you get the bad news you won’t get the news for a while yet."
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
It was thought that Darlene made this outfit from the material that was given to her by the man who would drop off gifts to her home at 1300 Virginia st Vallejo. I was told this by her sister, but it was recanted later, by her telling me that Darlene didn’t know how to sew ? When I went to school we had to take home economics, cooking and sewing was part of that class , it was something we all had to take, I don’t see how Darlene wouldn’t know how to sew ?
The other thought I had , is that Darlene had on different clothes when she went with Christine to the boat parade that night. She had a argument earlier at Terry’s, with whom the family thought could have been her killer.( Christine witnessed the argument ) If that is true ,then Zodiac could have been describing those clothes, instead of the pants dress Darlene changed into later?
Welsh Chappie » Sat May 11, 2013 10:51 pm
Quote :That another oddity about this case. You have Mageau describe his attacker as ‘young looking, early 20’s, short curly hair’ aswel as several people who spoke to him describe him as ‘Young sounding, early to mid 20’s’. Then you have the Presidio Witnesses, and Don Fouke, describe the suspect as 35 – 45 years old, crew cut blonde hair’.
Welsh Chappie , Didn’t Mike say the shooter looked to be about 26 to 30 yrs old ? Where was it that you saw early 20’s ? I know Mike had changed like the wind on many points over the yrs , but I think the best description would have been right after the shooting in the hospital.
Mike called him a man , if he was only a couple yrs older than Mike, would he have referred to him as a man ? Donald Foulk said "reddish blond" hair , but that it could have been the lighting that made it look that way. That he had a receding hair line, he called it a widows peak, because his parents used to describe hair like that that way.
I don’t want to come off as sounding like I am arguing about this, but who are the several people who spoke to Zodiac that said he sounded young ? I know of only a few Hartnell, officer Slaight said early 20’s, Nancy Slover said he had a mature sounding voice, if I have missed some other people saying early to mid 20’s, I would like to know who they were ? They could still be alive and make good witness’s.
Thanks for all your good in put.
Ah! I’m getting there D.!
Tahoe, you are naughty, Lundblad was the old guy hanging around at LHR saying crazy stuff. It’s Sgt. John P.Lynch on the property report.
http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/galler … fullsize=1Yes…of course…my bad. Lynch. I knew Lundblad wasn’t BRS. Sorry.
Here is exactly what she wore. I snatched it off the Zodiac documentary. (I too called them jumpsuits Seagull)
T., I NEVER get to catch you out. That’s about 103 to you, 1 to me.
I can see why Mr Horan thinks that describing that get-up as pants or slacks is wrong, then, but it’s not such a big deal, really.
You know, I think putting in things like "Hey pig doesnt it rile you up to have your noze rubed in your booboos" would take very little research if you were older (Hey, it was the 60’s and the Beat Generation were spouting this stuff everywhere after all), so it’s tough to be definitive on age. Unless you’ve got a suspect that is!
Welsh Chappie » Sat May 11, 2013 10:51 pm
Quote :That another oddity about this case. You have Mageau describe his attacker as ‘young looking, early 20’s, short curly hair’ aswel as several people who spoke to him describe him as ‘Young sounding, early to mid 20’s’. Then you have the Presidio Witnesses, and Don Fouke, describe the suspect as 35 – 45 years old, crew cut blonde hair’.
Welsh Chappie , Didn’t Mike say the shooter looked to be about 26 to 30 yrs old ? Where was it that you saw early 20’s ? I know Mike had changed like the wind on many points over the yrs , but I think the best description would have been right after the shooting in the hospital.
Mike called him a man , if he was only a couple yrs older than Mike, would he have referred to him as a man ? Donald Foulk said "reddish blond" hair , but that it could have been the lighting that made it look that way. That he had a receding hair line, he called it a widows peak, because his parents used to describe hair like that that way.
I don’t want to come off as sounding like I am arguing about this, but who are the several people who spoke to Zodiac that said he sounded young ? I know of only a few Hartnell, officer Slaight said early 20’s, Nancy Slover said he had a mature sounding voice, if I have missed some other people saying early to mid 20’s, I would like to know who they were ? They could still be alive and make good witness’s.
Thanks for all your good in put.
Sandy I won’t throw my toys out of the pram if you disagree with, or question, anything I say lol. I think its a good thing to have peple question what you say and/or disagree, thats what starts debates lol. And if everyone agreed with everything I said all the time, i’d start to worry and be concerned why? So…
Mike Mageau ‘early 20’s’ comment I was remembering off the top of my head. If he said late, rather than early 20’s, then I was mistaken, and thank you for pointing it out.
The comment I made about several people describing his voice as young sounding was in reference to statements made by Bryan Hartnell and David Slaight as shown below:
PS. It was Dave Slaight’s description of Early 20’s I had got crossed with Mageau’s
Hartnell Age Estimate:
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
I have said many times that I would have to with Officer Fouke’s description as being correct for many reasons….
1. Don Fouke is a trained observer with the SFPD.
2. Don Fouke wasn’t Guessing, based on hearing Z’s voice, when estimating Z’s age, his estimate was made from looking directly at the man himself.
3. Don Fouke wasn’t looking at Zodiac wearing a hood (as with Hartnell), nor was zodiac shining a bright flash light into Foukes eyes to blind him (as with Mageau), and Don Fouke wasn’t in a state of distress, panic or fear when he saw, maybe even spoke with, Zodiac.
4. Don Fouke is the only person to witness Zodiac unmasked in an area that, to Quote Armond Pelissetti (Happens to be extremely well lit).
5. Don Fouke wasn’t 50 ft away (as were the 3 teens at the scene in P. Heights), but rather 5, maybe 10 ft away.
Below are his, and a few other descriptions of Zodiac that appear to suggest he is, in fact, 35 – 45, and not in is 20’s.
Excerpt from Fouke’s memo.
Lake Berryessa Girls witness of a man watching them sunbathe 2 to 3 hours before the attack on Bryan & Cecelia.
(Note, the man describeed by the girls in the doc. above, has no evidence to support the idea that the man watching them was Zodiac. But, they all described him as a stocky white male, brown hair and dark baggy pants. One of them described him as having ‘A Round face’.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
Rather off-topic here now aren’t we? I think these comments should go into the excellent thread we had going about physical descriptions, a while back. (I’ll see if I can find it.)
Rather off-topic here now aren’t we? I think these comments should go into the excellent thread we had going about physical descriptions, a while back. (I’ll see if I can find it.)
I just wanted to answer Sandy’s Question lol. But your rite Smithy, it is rather off topic, my apologies
If you could move the last two comments made by myself, along with Sandy’s Q. it would be appreciated.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
Boy-o!
I wish I had that power. I can’t find the thread, either. I’ll keep looking though. I’m always pleased when comments like yours come up, in truth.