Finally one result came out of it: Pencil flashlights had existed at the time Z wrote about it ( thx ventura). And they mainly were used by hunters and police officers.

So I think it might be assumed that Z indeed had owned such a pencil flashlight.
QT

Really? Then seen as how this pencil flashlight was such a resounding success for Zodiac at Lake Herman Rd, how come he did not use it at Blue Rock Springs? How come, as Mageau says, Zodiac shined a regular flashlight beam into his eyes?

Really? Then seen as how this pencil flashlight was such a resounding success for Zodiac at Lake Herman Rd, how come he did not use it at Blue Rock Springs? How come, as Mageau says, Zodiac shined a regular flashlight beam into his eyes?

Some have speculated that the reason for this was that the pencil flashlight wasn’t that effective. I’m not sure either way but I do wonder why we try to ‘marry’ these things. The use of the flashlight at LHR served one purpose, to hit victims in darkness, the use at BRS was to blind the victims and aid disguising the perp. The two don’t have to apply to each other. It’s not like he could use the same approach at LB, in that instance he employed a hood.

Going over a few of Z’s letters, I noticed something that appeared to me to be a discrepancy. I say ‘appeared to me to be a discrepancy’ because I know nothing about guns and/or gun sights so I may be wrong in this suggestion and if I am, I am sure someone will correct me.

Zodiac, in his Aug 4th letter, seems rather displeased at police implying he managed to accurately shoot and kill the two victims at Lake Herman (Specifically, Betty-Lou). Zodiac has this to say of how he achieved his results that night:

(Copied & Pasted direct from Wikisource)

"Last Christmass

In that epasode the police were wondering as to how I could shoot + hit my victoms in the dark. They did not openly state this, but implied this by saying it was a well lit night + I could see the silowets on the horizon. Bullshit that area is srounded by high hills + trees. What I did was tape a small pencel flash light to the barrel of my gun. If you notice, in the center of the beam of light if you aim it at a wall or celling you will see a black or darck spot in the center of the circle of light about 3 to 6 inches across. When taped to a gun barrel, the bullet will strike exactly in the center of the black dot in the light. All I had to do was spray them as if it was a water hose; there was no need to use the gun sights. I was not happy to see that I did not get front page coverage.

So as is clear above, in this letter Zodiac is claiming he used pencil flash light taped to his gun barrel. He quite clearly states that "There was no need to use the gun sights."

But on Nov 9th, Zodiac writes the "I have grown rather angry with the police for their telling lies about me…" letter. He signs off in this letter by stating:

"To prove I am the Zodiac, ask the Vallejo cop about my electric gun sight which I used to start my collecting of slaves."

Now as previously stated, I know nothing about guns or gun accessories. But from the way it reads, it seems that in the first claim above, Zodiac clearly states "there was no need to use the gun sights" and then in the second claim in the Nov letter he appears to be saying that not only did he use the gun sights, but that it can, in fact, be used as proof that he is the Zodiac.

Am I just reading it wrong or is it actually as I am interpreting it?

He states he taped a pencil flash light to the barrel of his gun in the first claim, can I assume this would have to be a battery powered pencil flash light? I ask because in the second claim he now states it’s an ‘Electric Gun Sight.’ So which one is it that he is claiming he used? The gun sight (electric according to him) or the Battery operated pencil flash light?

Another oddity appears when Zodiac is "very happy to supply even more material" about the Lake Herman incident. As I already alluded to, he states there was no need to use the gun sight in the first letter, and emphasises this point by saying that because he used the pencil flash light that: "All I had to do was spray them as if it was a water hose."

Spray them? David was shot once, and at almost point blank range. Why would he say all he needed to do was ‘spray them’ when he should know and be very aware of the fact that David was shot once with a single bullet to the head at point blank range?

Well, the gun sights and the beam from the small pencil flashlight are two different things. He did not have to use the gun sight because he was using the beam from the pencil flashlight to aim his gun. The beam from the pencil flashlight was acting as a sight. That’s the way I understand it.

As for the electric part. A battery provides the electricity to power the light.

Weird…I posted and now it’s gone. Must have forgot to hit submit.

Pretty much along the lines of what Seagull wrote.

He used the pencil flashlight…he didn’t need to aim with the site of the gun. He just pointed the beam….his "electric site".

I think he’s full of crap with pencil flashlight thingy.

Seems like it might work well if your shooting something with a flat surface from a relatively close distance.

Of course, I’m betting you’d go through more than a few light-tapings to get it sighted properly. That would be pita, huh?

As far as the electronic/sight question…. what seagull and tahoe said.
As for the "spray them" comment… don’t know… that is weird. Good catch, wc.

I think he’s full of crap with pencil flashlight thingy.

Seems like it might work well if your shooting something with a flat surface from a relatively close distance.

Of course, I’m betting you’d go through more than a few light-tapings to get it sighted properly. That would be pita, huh?

As far as the electronic/sight question…. what seagull and tahoe said.
As for the "spray them" comment… don’t know… that is weird. Good catch, wc.

I agree and have always thought similar about his pencil flashlight due to the reasons you pointed out. If you have a thin pencil flash light at close range then yes, I imagine the beam would be visible on a target at close range. But I, like you, think that at any kind of distance the beam is going to be to weak to show as a target spot on a surface area. A pencil light is only going to be a thin beam obviously, which at close range I imagine would work fairly well but the further away you are the less accurate and concentrated the beam is going to be. To give an example of what I mean, if you get a regular flashlight and turn it on in a dark room and stand and point it directly at a wall while holding the flashlight 2 or three inches from the wall itself, the beam will appear on the wall as a bright small circle of light. Then walk backwards away from the wall keeping the flashlight pointed directly at the wall in the same place and the beam of light will get wider and wider and less bright the further away you get.

Ted K wrote that he attached a flashlight to his rifle and used it to successfully hunt rabbits and other game.

I think Mike B first noted an episode of the "Alfred Hitchcock" TV show that had a man with a flashlight attached to a rifle, who shoots a male/female couple. Called "Museum Piece" aired 1961.

Ted K wrote that he attached a flashlight to his rifle and used it to successfully hunt rabbits and other game.

I think Mike B first noted an episode of the "Alfred Hitchcock" TV show that had a man with a flashlight attached to a rifle, who shoots a male/female couple. Called "Museum Piece" aired 1961.

Yeah, it should work. It would illuminate whatever you want and then you would use the open sights for aiming. That’s different than using the dark center as a sight.

For those not familiar with guns… anytime you attach a scope or sights on a gun… you have to sight it in. Just because it’s attached doesn’t mean it’s lined up. Imagine taping two laser lights together and pointing them towards a wall. Would the two dots line up? No… they would be side by side. So you would have to find a way to converge them at a particular distance. It’s the same principal (principle?) as sighting in a gun. If I sight my 30.06 in at 100 meters its not going to be on the money at 50 or 200 meters. I have to compensate for that. So, while in theory, taping a penlight to a pistol might work, sighting it in would be a pita (as I’ve already mentioned) because you would have to take the tape off and start over from the beginning if it wasn’t right. Not like a scope where one fine tunes it up/down left/right with a click of a screw.

Plus, as WC said, I’m not convinced that most penlights made in 1968 were very powerful, so distance would be limited. Plus, the farther out you go, the bigger that dark center is going to get…. meaning that it’s going to get harder and harder to tell where the center is the farther the target is away from you. Also, the dark center doesn’t show up so well on textured surfaces. Give it a try sometime.

My conclusion… he full of crap.

Well I hate to mention my suspect because it upsets the moderators, but he demonstrated the pen light taped to a rifle for me.
It was dark and he pointed up into trees about 20 or 30 feet away, and pointed out the dark circle, which was visible to me.
How many feet were the victims from the killer at Lake Herman Road? I agree, the pen light is his electric gun sight.

Here are the posts that I moved !

Here are the posts that I moved ! I was not able to change the misspelling in the subject in the posts that I moved once they were moved. I should have done that before I moved them and I am sorry I did not do that.

I fixed it. And for the record, I added (Gun Site) because a lot of topics and new threads are created on subjects that already exist. If we, as posters, create new threads but don’t clarify what the subject is truly about, more new threads on the same subject are likely to be created. I just wanted to topic to be clear. I will continue to do this if necessary.

(My apologies for the error in spelling…I have gotten so used to typing "site". I used to reverse it and got accused of being Zodiac. lol)

Getting back on the general topic here of attaching a flashlight to a weapon, was it real or just BS from Zodiac?

This post might have got missed. I wonder if this 1961 TV show could have been an inspiration to Zodiac?

I think Mike B (or maybe it was Graysmith) first noted an episode of the "Alfred Hitchcock" TV show that had a man with a flashlight attached to a rifle, who shoots a male/female couple. Called "Museum Piece" aired 1961. That picture in the bottom right shows it pretty well. Is this were Z got the idea? Either to really do it or claim he did?