You didn’t need to be in the military to have wing walkers either.

I have a strong feeling that I am correct and Johnny’s watch was the same one found at Cheri Jo’s crime scene.

That the Celebrity card sent to Vallejo Times Herald, was overlooked by VPD as being a confession to the Swindle murders. Not that they would have knowledge of that case, but if I am right and that card showed "Ocean beach in San Diego". It wouldn’t take much of an investigation to put that together with the beach murders of the Swindle’s. And if VPD knew that Zodiac was leaving clues by the stamps he was using, that also was a huge clue to the date of the killing on Feb 5th. Perhaps they didn’t believe the Celebrity card was from Zodiac. The police are doubtful about most things that pertains to Zodiac, because of so many copy cats.

What can we do to get the attention of LE to look into this information?

And it’s very important to remember that most of these guys went to college to dodge the draft.

Johnny Swindle was in the Navy.

And it’s very important to remember that most of these guys went to college to dodge the draft.

Johnny Swindle was in the Navy.

CuriousCat, I don’t think Holmes201 was referring to Johnny Swindle, I think he or she was going off on all the draft dodgers we had back in the 60’s? I get the idea about if the victims had guns, Zodiac may have been killed.

That is why I carry my gun, it is for my protection and of course if I see someone shooting at a crowd , I will protect the crowd and shoot the shooter.

I think Holmes201 and many others are worried about our second amendment rights being taken away from us? I think if that starts to happen, we will have another civil war!
They will have to pry my gun from my dead cold hands that is for sure! Wonderful courageous people like Johnny Swindle, fought for us to have that right. To take our rights away, is to slap all who served our fine country and the many who gave their lives for us to have them!

And it’s very important to remember that most of these guys went to college to dodge the draft.

Johnny Swindle was in the Navy.

CuriousCat, I don’t think Holmes201 was referring to Johnny Swindle

I don’t know who else he would be referring to in this thread.

I think he or she was going off on all the draft dodgers we had back in the 60’s? I get the idea about if the victims had guns, Zodiac may have been killed.

That is why I carry my gun, it is for my protection and of course if I see someone shooting at a crowd , I will protect the crowd and shoot the shooter.

I think Holmes201 and many others are worried about our second amendment rights being taken away from us? I think if that starts to happen, we will have another civil war!
They will have to pry my gun from my dead cold hands that is for sure! Wonderful courageous people like Johnny Swindle, fought for us to have that right. To take our rights away, is to slap all who served our fine country and the many who gave their lives for us to have them!

Yeah, I agree with that and have the same concerns, but I don’t like someone smearing veterans. That’s why I’m giving those "Monster of Florence" idiots hell in that thread at Tom’s.

I think what Joku was referring to was that if the killer took Swindle’s Navy ID or access card, he could perhaps and get on to a military base or access to the PX, which is like a large Grocery and department store on the base.

Graysmith attempted to make a big point about wing walker shoes being only available on military bases at the PX. I agree with Sandy however, you could obtain wing walker shoes and other military boots and items at Army surplus stores, garage sales and yard sales.

I’m almost 100% positive that wing walkers were also used at such corporations as Rockwell International, Aer-Neutronic (Newport Beach, CA), Hughes Aircraft, Lockheed, etc. and all the airlines. Some employees would have been required to wear them as part of their job but they could have probably been obtained by other employees, such as those in management positions without much difficulty.

I’m almost 100% positive that wing walkers were also used at such corporations as Rockwell International, Aer-Neutronic (Newport Beach, CA), Hughes Aircraft, Lockheed, etc. and all the airlines. Some employees would have been required to wear them as part of their job but they could have probably been obtained by other employees, such as those in management positions without much difficulty.

Yes, I agree. When you add in Army – Navy surplus stores, etc., I don’t think it would be too hard for a civilian to acquire them. Graysmith thought Z was probably a veteran, so he exaggerated (not for the first time) how difficult it was to obtain them.

NOTE: Name calling and personal attacks are not allowed, and any such posts will be deleted. Let’s stay on track.

Tom Voigt announced that a TV station in San Diego will be doing a story about Joyce and Johnny Swindle’s murder. It seems my theory of Johnny’s watch with the paint spatters on it has been looked at as a possibility of being the watch found near Cheri Jo’s body!

If only I could find out what the color was that Johnny used that day and the paint spatter color found on the watch in Riverside? Both were a household type of paint.
I wasn’t absolutely sure until today, that Johnny’s killer did take his watch. What are the odds of two military watches with house paint spatters on them having a connection to two murders two years apart in Southern Ca., not being the same watch? Could the paint still be in that apartment under several layers of paint, to compare to the watch in Riverside?

I still believe the Celebrity Cipher card was sent by the Zodiac and had a clue to the Swindles murder at Ocean Beach!

Here is Tom´s interview to "CBS 8 San Diego": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzoctfTu_0A

Here is other videos relating to this case (and the case of Ray Davis) recently released on the "CBS 8 San Diego" Youtube Channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaHoQZ8ssbs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuhQwg5bYDs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1eLjUwnI-g

Thank you silly Billy for the San Diego TV station video links to the Swindle crime. Hopefully, it may bring more information to this very sad case!

I can see Seagull found the same news report info but I’ll post anyway, and the 1965 address in Glendale CA might be new info:

Concerning the suspect : Rene Leon Trudeau

I found this 1965 address on a Rene Trudeau in Glendale Ca (can not be 100% sure it is the correct person):

California Glendale 1965 Glendale, California, City Directory, 1965

Trudeau, Rene 200 1/2 e Chestnut

Also found this:
Press-Telegram (Long Beach, California) 1964 February 10

Quote:
An 18 year old transient was held by police today for questioning in connection with the "thrill" slaying of a young honeymooning couple.

Quote:
Detective said Rene Leon Trudeau, described as a part time janitor at a downtown bus depot was booked in city jail on suspicuon of murder Sunday

Quote:
Trudeau was arrested after police were notified by a priest from St. Patric’s church that he might be dangerous.
The priest said T came to him Saturday and said he had hurt some people and wanted help. He said the youth left before they had a chance to talk.

In a identical news report, this was added at the end of the news report:

Eureka Humboldt Standard (Eureka, California) 1964 February 12

Quote:

"Police Ll. Robert Lafoon quoted the youth as saying
"I have the urge to hurt someone, anyone. I could hurt you if I had the chance,
anyway I could. That’s why I saw a priest. I guess I need help.""

This is the 2015 obituary of, one time, suspect Rene Leon Trudeau.

Born: March 18, 1945
Died: June 7, 2015

There is a photo of him in the obituary, text under the photo ; "A man of many talents, he even ‘cleaned up good!"

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/name/ … =175047900

I may not have given enough information about the stamp used on the Celebrity cipher card. The stamp was a Marianne Moore stamp. She was a poet and "Editor", she died on Feb 5th, 1972. The Swindles were killed on Feb 5th 1964. I doubt that stamp in 1990 just happened to be the stamp used without Zodiac knowing the significance? He had a reason for most of what he did in the way of taunting. That stamp was the clincher for me to know the card and the Swindels murder date matched Feb 5th. Now to tie the watch to the one found near Cheri Jo’s murder!

I have a lot of questions if anyone doesn’t mind helping with.

About Johnny Ray, at age 19- how much time did he serve already in the navy or when he started in navy?

Navy he was attending was at Coronado COMNAVAIRPAC, NAS North Island San Diego?

I suppose the police reports are confidential or public? but nothing on the internet? or anyone have a copy?

Any better picture of Jonny and even Joyce? Like an actual photo for comparison too.

Reason I ask is My POI was in the navy here and has photo’s of friends/navy buddy’s, one picture resembles Johnny but I’m not sure for lack of comparison. Johnny’s height would help also

A person who peaks my interest grew up 5 miles from the swindle crime scene and later spent a few years in Vallejo.

So…. does anybody know anything else about this allegedly missing Swindle watch?

Brand/Size?

Could color/Material match on the paint of the Swindles old apartment and the Bates watch?

Is the inside of the Swindles old apartment still there with ANY of the same walls, maybe that old paint is still there, layered under newer paint over the years?

I’m guessing no touch DNA from the watch is possible?

Here is my contribution to this case, compliments of Harvey Colliver:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g3aa5txitutle … 9.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2w6naxj3hij2r … 9.JPG?dl=0

The documents can be found in this folder:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mdhzz3j7ej7i … NKXJa?dl=0