I think surveyor might be above Zodiac’s level of intelligence and education.

LOL, I worked as a surveyor and rest assured it does not take a high degree of intelligence or education.

I have no idea if Zodiac had worked as a surveyor, but if he did, it is a very good way to learn back roads and remote areas. We did work in towns at times but most was very rural. One thing that could lend some credence to Zodiac having worked as a surveyor, that pipeline they were running at LHR. I guarantee that before anything else happened a survey crew had been there. They’d be there first to tie in property corners, road right of way, even creeks, driveways. They would also run elevations. That data would be given to the engineer at the office, who used it to draw up the plans, then the crew would return to stake it all off.

You can spend a lot of time in those remote areas working as a surveyor and learn a lot about the area just from what you see and also talking to locals. There’s always a local wanting to know what you are doing, telling you this, telling you that. It’s not uncommon to happen upon couples "parking" even during the day.

Regarding Zodiac possibility positioning bodies face down: in history there were religious reasons for burying the dead this way. It was to condemn them to hell or to keep their spirits captive on earth (slaves in paradise?)

Might be reaching but I thought I’d mention it, anyway.

Regarding Zodiac possibility positioning bodies face down: in history there were religious reasons for burying the dead this way. It was to condemn them to hell or to keep their spirits captive on earth (slaves in paradise?)

Might be reaching but I thought I’d mention it, anyway.

Doesn’t explain trying to sit Stine up.

CuriousCat:

I’m curious. What level of education did you have working as a surveyor? What is the typical education/training level for surveyors?

Regarding Zodiac possibility positioning bodies face down: in history there were religious reasons for burying the dead this way. It was to condemn them to hell or to keep their spirits captive on earth (slaves in paradise?)

Might be reaching but I thought I’d mention it, anyway.

Doesn’t explain trying to sit Stine up.

More likely it was simply a way of controlling and disrespecting the victims after death.

Reminds me of how Dennis Rader would position and take photos of his victims.

"Something included with the Halloween card. If true, it’s extremely gross.

I got the info from within one of the jurisdictions. The timing of Bennallack and the Halloween card is certainly interesting."

I repeatedly asked him what the "gross" thing was, but he refused to divulge it.

I can’t help but think the "extremely gross" thing is Zodiac’s semen, which would obviously be useful where identification is concerned.

CuriousCat:

I’m curious. What level of education did you have working as a surveyor? What is the typical education/training level for surveyors?

My first job when I was 16 was working on a survey crew. I was "tail chain" which a trained monkey can do. Running an instrument requires a bit more smarts, I mean, an idiot couldn’t do it but no higher education is required. My first job out of high school was also as a surveyor. I made it up to instrument man with nothing but basic high school math. Party Chiefs have to know some high school level Algebra but other than that.

Now mind you, my experience was back in the 1970’s, which would have been the same as the 1960’s. Surveying was still done with a chain and Theodolite which is how it had been done for several hundred years. The move was made to distance meters, which I have a small amount of experience with, and now it’s pretty much all done by satellite. Back in the day, Surveyors were mostly a bunch of drunks and dope heads. It wasn’t uncommon for the Party Chief to say "screw it" and we spend the day sitting in the van playing cards and drinking beer. We’d also head for the bar when it opened. We were way the hell out on the sticks so it’s not like they could check up on you.

You are probably thinking of someone with an engineering degree. In most states, maybe all, when you graduate with an engineering degree you automatically get a surveyor’s license. Most licensed surveyors hold those folks with scorn and have little respect for them, don’t ask me why. Probably because many of them have never actually done any surveying work. An engineering degree is not required to be a licensed surveyor.

CuriousCat:

That’s really interesting information. Thank you. I always assumed surveyors need at least a two year college degree and were a professional group.

In looking at the Zodiac Bus Bomb and Death Machine diagram and especially his Mt. Diablo code with the radians, etc., do you think Zodiac could have been a surveyor? Or do you think he was smarter/better educated?

CuriousCat:

That’s really interesting information. Thank you. I always assumed surveyors need at least a two year college degree and were a professional group.

In looking at the Zodiac Bus Bomb and Death Machine diagram and especially his Mt. Diablo code with the radians, etc., do you think Zodiac could have been a surveyor? Or do you think he was smarter/better educated?

First off, don’t get me wrong, some surveyors are very smart guys. I’ve worked with some who had college degrees.

As for radians, I don’t recall that word being used, it would be something the map makers in the office would be concerned with if anything.

The diagrams show me nothing that would indicate he was a surveyor. Quite the opposite if anything. Crew Chiefs, and sometimes instrument men, had to keep "field notes" in little hardback books with grid paper. Neatness and precision was of the utmost importance because these books became part of the permanent record of a piece of property. I tried a couple times and the Crew Chief took it away from me, LOL. Those guys were literally artists as besides lines and numbers they would need to add in little details for references, like trees, waterways, etc. Zodiac’s crude drawings would not be acceptable or show any experience at keeping a field book.

I believe he worked in construction. There was construction going on very close to each murder scene, or close to where the victim lived. The only place I was unable to find any construction, was at Lake Berryessa. There was a renovation on Jackson st in PH at the time of Paul Stine’s murder. Zodiac gave a clue to construction workers with the Lake Tahoe Donna Lass card. I believe he gave many obvious clues that have been overlooked. There was construction near Nancy’s apt.

My Honcho suspect worked with concrete as well as plaster, he lived and worked for a company in Benicia.

I believe he worked in construction. There was construction going on very close to each murder scene, or close to where the victim lived. The only place I was unable to find any construction, was at Lake Berryessa. There was a renovation on Jackson st in PH at the time of Paul Stine’s murder. Zodiac gave a clue to construction workers with the Lake Tahoe Donna Lass card. I believe he gave many obvious clues that have been overlooked. There was construction near Nancy’s apt.

My Honcho suspect worked with concrete as well as plaster, he lived and worked for a company in Benicia.

You can basically consider surveying as construction work. we worked along side construction crews a lot of times, we had to be there to help them make sure everything is being built in the right spot on big jobs. The company I worked for spent years at a local lignite plant as it was being built, several of the guys went to work for that construction company. I spent an entire summer working with a concrete crew that did curb and gutter. I got to be good friends with all of them. They offered me a job, but they were from another town and I didn’t want to drive that far.

I’m not saying Zodiac was a surveyor, but it’s the type work that sort of leads to working construction crews.

CuriousCat, I know that I sound like I am just guessing about the type of job I believe Zodiac had.
I am not guessing who I believe Zodiac was or is, I am very sure he is my suspect and that he worked in construction. There was a picture of him in the local paper finishing concrete at the new Police station that was being built in the 1990’s. ( During that time many females were murdered near where he worked) I found girls who servided his knife attacks , but the detective in charge of those murders , told me recently, he didn’t trust their statements!
My suspect told a person who use to talk to him, that he did live in Benicia and did work for a plastering company there. He was seen in Martinez Ca. driving a A-1 Plastering truck after finishing a job in Vallejo.

I know that Kathleen Johns picked out the same man I did in a picture line up. That man told her that he only worked a few months out of the year. Wouldn’t that fit very well with someone working with concrete? I have done that type of work and know there are only a few months that are better than others for that type of work.

Bits and pieces of what I say about this man . may not mean much. But when you put it all together and start from the beginning of my story about him, then take into consideration that only the Zodiac could have put his costume and other Z like things into my car in Napa with in hours of the Lake B crime. I don’t see how anyone can discount all of that and come away with he could not be Zodiac?
No one else has "real Zodiac evidence" in their possession besides me that I know of? Even Napa Lt. Banducci, told me that no one else he has met has the kind of evidence that I do.
This suspect needs to have his picture exposed, so I can find out what his whole name is ,then I can get a paper trail done on him and get him caught. Hopefully I can show that he did live or worked in Sacramento when Nancy Bennallack was murdered.

Is this guy the one you thought died recently?

Since justice for the victims and their families is the goal, imo what needs to happen (since there have been so many empty promises of forthcoming news, so much ignoring of those with real evidence like Sandy has) is for all the remaining families of victims, their friends and the remaining victims such as Bryan Hartnell) to organize themselves somehow and start pressuring the LE agencies in charge!!!

Pressure LE to release whatever evidence they can that they previously withheld.

Otherwise, these boards are nothing but doomed imo. There is not much interest among the younger generations, if any. Especially now with the coronavirus on everyone’s mind.

The police are notorious for placing officers who have been injured or are being disciplined in some way on desk duty. IMO the same is true for many of these detectives. Everyone gets so excited there is a new one who will have fresh eyes only to learn in short order he’s out on sick leave, tells people to stay tuned, etc. and then no news other than he’s retired.

One of the main reasons I suspected Zodiac of being a surveyor was the Mt. Diablo code. Mt. Diablo was an important landmark for surveyors and map makers. I also knew that surveyors needed to know trignometry to calculate distances, etc. Radians and degrees are a major aspect of trig, obviously. Plus, I had read that surveyors needed to have a knowledge of engineering and electrical matters (the Bus Bomb and Death Machine diagrams). Surveying seemed like a logical way to tie all of those details into one.

However, CuriousCat has cast doubt on those thoughts, and perhaps I need to rethink them. I am beginning to lean more toward the idea that Zodiac was a blue-collar worker who maybe had a basement workshop where he dabbled in that sort of thing as a hobby.

We can all suspect but need to keep open minds. My poi was a very well-educated person who was exposed to these things when he was in school. His father was a metallurgical engineer with a major steel company in Chicago and became a vice-president. They built their home in an exclusive wooded area and my friend described the work that went into this. The property had to be surveyed. He was also very familiar with Mt. Diablo and lived near there, btw. He studied classical piano. His mother had a master’s degree in speech and english and was very familiar with the Mikado. We discussed music at length.

Capricorn, He is the one I was told had died months ago. But Not sure if that is true yet or not, because my granddaughter was chased in her car a couple of months back by someone that looked and acted like him. So I don’t know if the informant was told to tell me Honcho died or not?