What are the odds two unrelated serial killers were operating in such close vicinity?
If it’s a near certainty (barring them being the same individual) that they operated in the same vicinity 10 years apart, why is it so much harder to believe they operated in the same vicinity at around the same time?
McLain was in the area so yeah he’s a great suspect, but that doesn’t cancel out the fact that it was a known Zodiac site and the circumstances suggest the possibility of the killer wanting people to connect it to the Zodiac.
This thing about the Timex watch though. That sounds straight out of Hollywood. We’re sure it’s true? I mean a Timex watch and knife, found in the vehicle? It’s so on the nose. Only someone either very familiar with the Zodiac, I mean a committed copycat would ever dream that up. A run of the mill prankster might leave a note with a cipher, but a reference to CJB is far more obscure and specific. It almost sounds to good to be true. And then the bit about the police not caring, I’m skeptical. I mean she was murdered, surely the discovery of a knife would be enough to grab the attention of even the most jaded cop.
What are the odds two unrelated serial killers were operating in such close vicinity?
If it’s a near certainty (barring them being the same individual) that they operated in the same vicinity 10 years apart, why is it so much harder to believe they operated in the same vicinity at around the same time?
McLain was in the area so yeah he’s a great suspect, but that doesn’t cancel out the fact that it was a known Zodiac site and the circumstances suggest the possibility of the killer wanting people to connect it to the Zodiac.
This thing about the Timex watch though. That sounds straight out of Hollywood. We’re sure it’s true? I mean a Timex watch and knife, found in the vehicle? It’s so on the nose. Only someone either very familiar with the Zodiac, I mean a committed copycat would ever dream that up. A run of the mill prankster might leave a note with a cipher, but a reference to CJB is far more obscure and specific. It almost sounds to good to be true. And then the bit about the police not caring, I’m skeptical. I mean she was murdered, surely the discovery of a knife would be enough to grab the attention of even the most jaded cop.
You are correct the Bana case could have been a Zodiac copycat. The fact her body was found on Lake Herman, and her car transported to Blue Rock Springs, is downright creepy.
From what I’ve read about McLain, he was a smart operator. By conferring with his lawyers he managed to get his death sentence commuted to life imprisonment. Also, the fact he moved between NorCal and SoCal to commit his crimes is similar to DeAngelo moving between jurisdictions to evade law enforcement.
Yes, McLain could have had the wits to frame Zodiac in the Bana case. If Bana was McLain, that doesn’t necessarily mean he had anything to do with Zodiac. But either way the fact he was responsible for a nearby murder of another young woman in the same year, with a similar MO, makes me just about convinced he was responsible.
This was in the days before the internet though. I mean are we to suppose he nicked down to the library to look at old newspapers on the Zodiac so that he could find the relatively little known tid bit about a Timex watch? Alright to be fair he could have remembered it from reading about it at the time, maybe he even followed the case, it’s not that unlikely. But a CBJ reference, I mean if it’s hoax he must have been a real fan boy to pick that one.
This was in the days before the internet though. I mean are we to suppose he nicked down to the library to look at old newspapers on the Zodiac so that he could find the relatively little known tid bit about a Timex watch? Alright to be fair he could have remembered it from reading about it at the time, maybe he even followed the case, it’s not that unlikely. But a CBJ reference, I mean if it’s hoax he must have been a real fan boy to pick that one.
Zodiac wasn’t as well known outside of California until Graysmith’s first book. Even then not many people would be aware of the possible link to Bates. Either the Timex watch detail is embellished or it’s true. The watch wouldn’t necessarily be a calling card, but it could point to a fashion choice of the killer.
It still seems to good to be true to me. But if it is true, then someone planted that Timex there after the fact, and if that’s the case then it follows they were making a reference by leaving the watch.
The Timex was one of the few pieces of evidence in the CBJ case, this means it’s distinctive, at least to anyone familiar with the case. If this really happened, I have no doubt the person who left the watch was making a CJB reference. The part that’s hard to believe is anyone being aware enough about the case details in an age were this information would have been very spread out.
It really does sound almost like an urban legend. "And when they got out of the car, there, stuck in the passenger door, was great big hook".
It still seems to good to be true to me. But if it is true, then someone planted that Timex there after the fact, and if that’s the case then it follows they were making a reference by leaving the watch.
The Timex was one of the few pieces of evidence in the CBJ case, this means it’s distinctive, at least to anyone familiar with the case. If this really happened, I have no doubt the person who left the watch was making a CJB reference. The part that’s hard to believe is anyone being aware enough about the case details in an age were this information would have been very spread out.
It really does sound almost like an urban legend. "And when they got out of the car, there, stuck in the passenger door, was great big hook".
What if the killer simply failed to notice his watch falling off after his frenzied killing of both girls? He buys the same watch brand again because he likes Timex, and as this was before DNA evidence existed there would be less worry about leaving physical evidence behind.
It still seems to good to be true to me. But if it is true, then someone planted that Timex there after the fact, and if that’s the case then it follows they were making a reference by leaving the watch.
The Timex was one of the few pieces of evidence in the CBJ case, this means it’s distinctive, at least to anyone familiar with the case. If this really happened, I have no doubt the person who left the watch was making a CJB reference. The part that’s hard to believe is anyone being aware enough about the case details in an age were this information would have been very spread out.
It really does sound almost like an urban legend. "And when they got out of the car, there, stuck in the passenger door, was great big hook".
What if the killer simply failed to notice his watch falling off after his frenzied killing of both girls? He buys the same watch brand again because he likes Timex, and because this was before DNA evidence existed so there would be less worry about leaving physical evidence behind.
Shiri`s mum found the watch hanging on the turn signal arm after getting the car back.
It still seems to good to be true to me. But if it is true, then someone planted that Timex there after the fact, and if that’s the case then it follows they were making a reference by leaving the watch.
The Timex was one of the few pieces of evidence in the CBJ case, this means it’s distinctive, at least to anyone familiar with the case. If this really happened, I have no doubt the person who left the watch was making a CJB reference. The part that’s hard to believe is anyone being aware enough about the case details in an age were this information would have been very spread out.
It really does sound almost like an urban legend. "And when they got out of the car, there, stuck in the passenger door, was great big hook".
What if the killer simply failed to notice his watch falling off after his frenzied killing of both girls? He buys the same watch brand again because he likes Timex, and because this was before DNA evidence existed so there would be less worry about leaving physical evidence behind.
Shri`s mum found the watch hanging on the turn signal arm after getting the car back.
That’s unusual, it does make it sound like it was placed there.
back in the days when lifting the bonnet (hood) of a car was of greater frequency my father would take off his watch and place it on the column shift lever or the indicator lever.
so too me not that unusual
just maybe the killer did this out of habbit while pretending to help this girl
thats why i bumped this thread..
is that watch still in police custody.
back in the days when lifting the bonnet (hood) of a car was of greater frequency my father would take off his watch and place it on the column shift lever or the indicator lever.
so too me not that unusual
just maybe the killer did this out of habbit while pretending to help this girl
thats why i bumped this thread..
is that watch still in police custody.
Sounds like what allegedly happened with Kathleen Johns.
Yeah, but the story is that the mum found the watch along with a knife after getting the vehicle back. Think about that.
There are four/five maybe six possibilities:
1. This incident never happened and it’s just a dumb rumor.
2. The police inspected the vehicle and missed both the watch and the knife.
3. The Police were so lazy they never even inspected the vehicle.
4. The killer returned to the vehicle sometime after the Police had inspected it and planted the watch and the knife.
Bonus possibility 5. The knife is a myth, but there was a watch. The Police missed the watch because it was harder to spot, but there was never any knife and that part got added latter.
Bonus bonus possibility 6. There was never any knife and the watch was innocently left by either the impound lot manager, or a family friend at a later time.
I tend to lean toward possibility "1". I mean what’s next, they found the Zodiac hood on their doorstep the next morning?
But if it’s true then possibility "4" has highest probability IMO. The consequences of which would be astounding.
Given which, why the apathetic response from the Police? Maybe because they’d already searched the vehicle. But even still, the mum calls about finding a knife and they’re all "eh, so what?". Which leads us back to possibility "1".
I guess it’s possible though, I mean if they’d already searched the vehicle, then when they get the call from the mum they could well have thought it was some silly prank. I mean what sort of killer would return to the car to plant evidence? It’s not totally unimaginable that a jaded cop used to dealing with common pranksters might assume the story was too far fetched.
The "Trailside Killer" David Carpenter is a very credible suspect in the Bana murder.
The same year as Bana’s murder, Carpenter started stalking and killing young victims in remote locations in the Bay Area – including couples in parked cars. Until he had alibis, he was a serious Zodiac POI due to such similar MO.
However, Carpenter liked to strangle victims (possibly happened to Bana according to autopsy), unlike Zodiac who seemed to prefer impersonal shootings.
David Carpenter was a rapist, he killed his victims so they couldn’t testify against him. He had a very different MO than Zodiac. I do believe that some of the Trailside crimes could have been Zodiac’s. Those would be the ones who were not raped and the young couple near Point Reyes. Richard Towers and Cynthia Moreland. Below is a copy and paste that shows a list that is obviously very wrong and how people can be fooled by what they read. Notice the dates are 1979 to 80, yet list Cecelia and Bryan who were stabbed Sept 1969?
A.K.A.: "The Trailside Killer"
Classification: Serial killer
Characteristics: Rape
Number of victims: 7 – 11
Date of murders: 1979 – 1980
Date of arrest: May 14, 1981
Date of birth: May 6, 1930
Victims profile: Heather Scaggs / Helen Hansen / Richard Stowers / Cynthia Moreland / Shauna May / Diana O’Connell / Anne Alderson / Anne Kelly Menjivar / Cecelia Ann Sheppard and Bryan Hartnell / Mary Frances Bennett
Method of murder: Stabbing with knife / Shooting
Location: Marin and Santa Cruz counties, California, USA
Status: Sentenced to death on July 6, 1984
There was a time when detectives thought Zodiac was responsible for Ted Bundy’s crimes.
The Shiri -Dine Bana case is very much like what Zodiac would do and to make us connect the dots ,putting her car in the same place as Darlene’s car. The watch I think could be him stating again "It’s about Time".
I think her case took two people to commit, one to drive her car to Blue Rock Springs park and the other to follow.
The Shiri -Dine Bana case is very much like what Zodiac would do and to make us connect the dots ,putting her car in the same place as Darlene’s car. The watch I think could be him stating again "It’s about Time".
I think her case took two people to commit, one to drive her car to Blue Rock Springs park and the other to follow.
Robert McLain did have partners in the crimes he was convicted of.
But I still agree, Sandy, that the possible Zodiac link seems almost too good to be true.
There was a time when detectives thought Zodiac was responsible for Ted Bundy’s crimes.
According to Tom V’s website they considered Bundy as a suspect in the Lake Berryessa attack, but I can find no further information on this.
