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SF Chronicle Aug 3, 1978 April 1978 Letter Fake

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(@druzer)
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Posted by: @coffee-time

He was cleared because examiners couldn’t match his writing, not because of his character.

Where was this stated?

 
Posted : August 14, 2021 10:55 pm
(@coffee-time)
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It was in the news.

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/79797519/toschi-cleared-in-zodiac-letter/

 
Posted : August 15, 2021 1:07 am
Druzer, Druzer and Druzer reacted
(@druzer)
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Posted by: @coffee-time

It was in the news.

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/79797519/toschi-cleared-in-zodiac-letter/

Excellent, thanks! Interesting how he was described as having a “disturbed personality” by chief Gain. 

 
Posted : August 15, 2021 1:20 am
(@coffee-time)
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While I was rummaging through Newspapers.com again, I took the opportunity to refresh my memory. Seems like the last major Zodiac coverage predating this letter was in the Jan. 30th, 1978 Examiner. Should be easily findable on this board.

Major takeaways: Toschi was the only detective still working the case; he was essentially waiting for Zodiac to pull a BTK; Morrill was still beating the drum of “handwriting will solve this.”

There were also handwriting samples. However, no envelopes were shown. The 1978 writer clearly imitated a Zodiac envelope.

One could certainly get the impression that the case was on the verge of being thrown in the Jack the Ripper pile.

I do wonder why the hoaxer didn’t quite nail it down. It’s neither Belli style nor the typical “droop”; the writing on the letter doesn’t even match the writing on the envelope. I also wonder about the size of the writing and the paper.

 
Posted : August 15, 2021 12:02 pm
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(@druzer)
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The April 24, 1978 letter envelope looks like it was copied from the Dripping Pen card envelope (the only one published before Graysmith?) with its diagonal printing of ‘Please Rush to Editor’. The implication from our new solution to the cipher it contained is that the diagonal printing which began with that envelope and continued to the end of 1969 was a clue to the diagonal transposition of the 340. There are reasons to believe that the 78 letter is authentic Zodiac material but the diagonal printing in this 1978 context seems to be without purpose. If it was a hoaxer who copied the one envelope printed in the newspaper did he believe that Zodiac did that every time? If Toschi wrote it, why would he copy this discontinued element of Zodiac’s style?

 
Posted : August 15, 2021 1:43 pm
(@coffee-time)
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Well, the L.A. Times envelope appeared in the San Bernardino County Sun (of all places):

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/20426745/

The Belli envelope had diagonal writing as well, but the back wasn’t shown in the papers.

 
Posted : August 15, 2021 2:54 pm
(@coffee-time)
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Oh, and the Halloween card had diagonal writing.

In a Toschi scenario, blatant insider info would have been too incriminating. Imagine what this conversation would look like if the writer had included “Sorry no cipher” or the signature on the Exorcist letter. So it’s possible that he chose the DP because it was public domain. It also has to be noted that nobody picked up on the link at the time.

 
Posted : August 16, 2021 11:33 am
(@druzer)
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Suggestions regarding DNA evidence aside, my vote today is that Zodiac wrote this April 24, 78 letter. I am repeating myself but indenting the first line below the greeting when Zodiac had never done so seems an improbable mistake for a hoaxer. If it was Zodiac who wrote this letter then it wasn’t a mistake but a minor evolution in style not dissimilar from when he started to sporadically incorporate a space after his greeting line. If the Fairfield letters are authentic then that is when that spacing technique started but within confirmed letter it started four days later in the Belli letter and then continued every so often (Johns, Little List, LA Times). Indenting was first found in the April 24th letter. A week later the Channel 9 letter also indented the first line. In fact the following four unconfirmed letters in 81 (Atlanta), 86 (Freeway), 87 (Death Machine) all indented the first line. Several of these letters share several things in common including mentioning Herb Caen, Toschi, crack proof, and similar language regarding his return, ‘I am back’ (78) ‘I am still here’ (86) ‘I am back with you’ (87) ‘I have decided to begin killing again’ (87). Clearly the same author is writing some or all of these decade spanning correspondences. If it was not Zodiac then they are all copying the one letter publicly known to be a fake. I realize I’m in the weeds here and still have a lot to learn but Richard has done a lot of good extensive work on this subject. https://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/1986-and-1987-letters-one-hand

 
Posted : August 16, 2021 2:17 pm
(@coffee-time)
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Plenty of people have no idea the 1978’s considered a fake. Kelleher even “profiled” Zodiac with it.

Personally, I didn’t notice Zodiac’s lack of indents until they were pointed out to me.

 
Posted : August 17, 2021 1:12 am
(@druzer)
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For me trying to discern the true authorship of this letter has been really interesting. Whether it was Zodiac, Toschi, some mischievous hoaxer, or one of the other characters who seemed to have a motive for the deception is a real mystery. Toschi is a quirky celebrity cop who had written fake letters for attention before and maybe they were going to deactivate the case that keeps him up nights; Maupin was exploiting the situation for publicity and had an unusual relationship with Toschi; a week after it arrived another ‘zodiac’ letter comes in threatening police chiefs and Manson family members. It’s hard not to put it together like a movie plot where every detail is meaningful. One thing I don’t have much of a grasp on is the internal politics surrounding Toschi and whether it is reasonable to suggest that could have been a factor. I heard it suggested that Toschi was in line for promotion but I have no idea whether that is true. That Chief Gain sure offered the media some rather damaging quotes that were not required. The fact that someone surely knows scientifically whether Toschi wrote it is perhaps most maddening of all.

 
Posted : August 17, 2021 2:34 am
(@coffee-time)
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Oh yeah, the “Maupin framed Toschi” angle. That was popular around here. A forgery good enough to fool the examiners, yet bad enough that Maupin could blow it up with a simple accusation. Talk about a tightrope act. Maybe he was insanely lucky.

The problem with this particular letter is not that it exists, but that it survived the initial vetting process. Toschi was possibly over-eager to push through any “Zodiac” letter, and the timing was bad. But Shimoda and Morrill could have nipped it in the bud…they didn’t. It’s very peculiar.

 
Posted : August 17, 2021 2:29 pm
BDHolland
(@peaceandlove)
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Posted by: @coffee-time

Oh yeah, the “Maupin framed Toschi” angle. That was popular around here. A forgery good enough to fool the examiners, yet bad enough that Maupin could blow it up with a simple accusation. Talk about a tightrope act. Maybe he was insanely lucky.

The problem with this particular letter is not that it exists, but that it survived the initial vetting process. Toschi was possibly over-eager to push through any “Zodiac” letter, and the timing was bad. But Shimoda and Morrill could have nipped it in the bud…they didn’t. It’s very peculiar.

If Toschi wrote the letter then his DNA should be all over it, which is a key reason why I think it probably wasn’t him because its scientifically possible to know it was him. What you said about Maupin framing Toschi is close to how I think about all that stuff, but it’s Zodiac pushing Maupin to identify Toschi that I am more interested in. I think the Zodiac was in there somehow, maybe in a communication, giving Maupin a little tap to go in properly. I also think Zodiac is responsible for Lynch originally contacting ALA. I think he was the tip off and he had already contacted Lynch before in the Concerned Citizen communication. I think Zodiac has been doing that all along. Framing Manalli, framing Toschi, framing ALA, and manipulating from behind the scenes because he knows what is going on through his contacts in LE.

There is good evidence that DeAngelo also tried to do some framing of local neighbors around a cluster by leaving stolen property from another place in a home invasion of theirs without disturbing anything else. Oddly enough LE would be drawn to that neighbor and do a search. I think DeAngelo was the one dropping tips somehow and see that here is the Zodiac case also.

www.zodiachalloweencard.com has a 400 paged book for free containing the super solution with an overarching explanation of the cards and more.

 
Posted : August 17, 2021 3:09 pm
Chaucer
(@chaucer)
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Posted by: @bdholland

If Toschi wrote the letter then his DNA should be all over it, which is a key reason why I think it probably wasn’t him because its scientifically possible to know it was him.

Who says they haven’t run test and concluded it was him? In fact, Alan Keep implies that very thing. 

“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer

 
Posted : August 17, 2021 10:24 pm
BDHolland
(@peaceandlove)
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Posted by: @chaucer
Posted by: @bdholland

If Toschi wrote the letter then his DNA should be all over it, which is a key reason why I think it probably wasn’t him because its scientifically possible to know it was him.

Who says they haven’t run test and concluded it was him? In fact, Alan Keep implies that very thing. 

Let’s go with the Alan Keel source then even if second or third hand information. They pulled DNA from it. It matched the Exorcist Letter. So that means if it’s Toschi’s DNA then Toschi also did the Exorcist letter or it’s contamination.

Exorcist letter has a palm print on it. So that must also be Toschi’s palm print.

There is a whole pile of problems that comes with the idea Toschi’s DNA was already identified with these letters.

www.zodiachalloweencard.com has a 400 paged book for free containing the super solution with an overarching explanation of the cards and more.

 
Posted : August 18, 2021 6:00 am
Druzer, Druzer and Druzer reacted
(@coffee-time)
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Keel said that the 1978 DNA matched one of the 1974 letters. That it’s the Exorcist is speculation.

As for the palm prints — people often say “THE palm print,” but there were multiple overlapping prints. Per Rodelli, they had to use software to disentangle them. That’s why we didn’t hear anything about Allen not matching them until 2002, which was well after Keel left SFPD.

 
Posted : August 18, 2021 9:36 am
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