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SF Chronicle Aug 3, 1978 April 1978 Letter Fake

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BDHolland
(@peaceandlove)
Posts: 608
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Posted by: @coffee-time

Keel said that the 1978 DNA matched one of the 1974 letters. That it’s the Exorcist is speculation.

As for the palm prints — people often say “THE palm print,” but there were multiple overlapping prints. Per Rodelli, they had to use software to disentangle them. That’s why we didn’t hear anything about Allen not matching them until 2002, which was well after Keel left SFPD.

I seem to recall SFPD released a document with which letters Keel found DNA cells on and it was also with the Exorcist letter which was marked as having DNA cells recovered. So yeah it’s speculation but that seems to be one Keel found something on. Otherwise wouldn’t the others have indicated DNA cells recovered?

Yes you are right about the palm print because its the printing of someone writing with their right hand as they move from left to right.

www.zodiachalloweencard.com has a 400 paged book for free containing the super solution with an overarching explanation of the cards and more.

 
Posted : August 18, 2021 12:25 pm
(@druzer)
Posts: 229
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According to this SFPD DNA test chart from the 90s the only 1974 tested was Exorcist.  https://www.zodiackiller.com/SFPDDNA.html

 

 
Posted : August 18, 2021 1:52 pm
(@coffee-time)
Posts: 624
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Yup, but the SLA letter isn’t on that list at all (why?), and the Exorcist doesn’t say “DNA found,” only “cells found.” I’m not disputing that it’s likely to be the one, I just think there’s a tiny amount of room for doubt.

(Also, I wonder why SFPD didn’t test Red Phantom, the Halloween card, and the L.A. Times letter. Kind of a weird grouping. Unless there are redactions that are hard to discern due to the poor quality copy.)

 
Posted : August 18, 2021 2:33 pm
(@druzer)
Posts: 229
Estimable Member
 

We know that they have done more testing since this chart was compiled as this was done before the recovery of the July31 envelopes (and maybe others as well) but it is strange that they would ascribe a potential connection to Zodiac with several letters and then not test them. The distinction between “few cells” (most letters) and “cells found” (Johns, Buttons, Exorcist) is interesting. Keel relayed that there was an abundance of DNA on the 78 and one of the 74s, presumably Exorcist because we know it yielded results. If “cells found” means an abundance, then what did they learn from Johns and Buttons?

 
Posted : August 18, 2021 3:00 pm
(@coffee-time)
Posts: 624
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We’ve pondered the mysteries of that report for years. You have to Franken-stitch the best you can from what’s out there. My interpretation of “cells found” is that, literally, human cells were found. My assumption: it would say “DNA found” if the cells yielded DNA. After watching the 2002 special dozens of times, and digging up every article I could find, I tend to think there wasn’t DNA on those particular letters.

Carroll specifically stated, on at least one occasion, that they found DNA on *a* Zodiac stamp. Yet a vague remark from Holt implied they found “something” of a promising nature on another letter (I think it was the Dripping Pen card). When the time came to trumpet the partial profile, ABC proudly displayed the Vallejo Times-Herald letter. The other letter was never mentioned again.

Oh, and I should add: the Vallejo letter was retested in 2007. Only the the Vallejo letter. The results were negative.

 
Posted : August 18, 2021 6:01 pm
BDHolland
(@peaceandlove)
Posts: 608
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Posted by: @coffee-time

My interpretation of “cells found” is that, literally, human cells were found. My assumption: it would say “DNA found” if the cells yielded DNA. After watching the 2002 special dozens of times, and digging up every article I could find, I tend to think there wasn’t DNA on those particular letters.

Cells found means they have a quantity big enough to do DNA testing on. You can be sure with cells found that means nuclear DNA, mtDNA and other cell organelles. Back then you actually needed much bigger samples to get a good profile. Also it is quite possible even back then that with cells found that means the sample is gone afterwards depending on how well the PCR amplified it into more copies. Sometimes the evidence was destroyed by the process and the courts depended on the scientist on the stand to report what they found and the defense nor prosecution could do any more testing on that sample. 

Also cells found means you can do other types of testing. Such as blood type. So its not exclusive to DNA testing only. What type of cell it is also can matter, such as sperm which is more powerful than sloughed off skin cells in sexual assault cases for example.

www.zodiachalloweencard.com has a 400 paged book for free containing the super solution with an overarching explanation of the cards and more.

 
Posted : August 18, 2021 6:27 pm
Druzer, Druzer and Druzer reacted
(@coffee-time)
Posts: 624
Honorable Member
 

I imagine the lab would note what they found, even if it didn’t ultimately lead anywhere. The much more detailed report from 2007 referred to trace amounts of degraded human genetic material, for example.

I’m revisiting the Maupin interview & accompanying articles from the Examiner…wow, I’d forgotten a lot. Apparently, that Herb Caen column (the one I mentioned before) resulted in fake Toschi fan mail, too. Tedesco/Deasy felt that Toschi was interfering with their investigation of Toschi’s investigation of the Zodiac case. Gain was notorious for demoting people, and Deputy Chief DeAmicis flat-out told Maupin that Toschi’s transfer had nothing to do with the letters. Crazy stuff.

Toschi’s love affair with the press seemed to rub his superiors the wrong way. A similar drama played out in 2004 with the blow-out between Maloney/Carroll and Hennessey.

 
Posted : August 18, 2021 9:19 pm
(@coffee-time)
Posts: 624
Honorable Member
 

I found these last year. My head would explode from shock if these are legitimate letters. ? 

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/83698545/

 
Posted : August 18, 2021 9:26 pm
(@coffee-time)
Posts: 624
Honorable Member
 

Ulp, found another interesting column right here. Dwight Chapin asked readers to send in their nominations for most admirable people. Note that the list consists entirely of major celebrities. Did Toschi write this letter and send in votes for himself?

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/83699724/

 
Posted : August 18, 2021 9:44 pm
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