To me the strongest point against ALA being The Zodiac is that his voice was apparently not a match. This is very hard to get around.
Plus the small detail that he was ruled out due to different DNA?
He still could have been a hanger-on in Santa Rosa, though.
QT
*ZODIACHRONOLOGY*
Plus the small detail that he was ruled out due to different DNA?
I would guess that they are still working on the DNA. The information about the DNA has been so scant. I read something about it being from the front of a stamp, etc…
To me the strongest point against ALA being The Zodiac is that his voice was apparently not a match. This is very hard to get around.
Plus the small detail that he was ruled out due to different DNA?
He still could have been a hanger-on in Santa Rosa, though.
QT
If it is true ALA kept chipmunks and they found chipmunk hairs on the Santa Rosa victims, that is damn compelling evidence.
There is a lot of good evidence against ALA that makes his exoneration by everything else bizarre.
My main problem with Allen is his height. I’ve read a lot of conflicting info regarding his height. Some sites have said he was 5’10 tall. Others said he was 6’0 to 6’1 tall. The zodiac was described as 5’8 to 5’10. If Allen was 6’0 or greater, I then have doubts about him being the Zodiac because it’s very unlikely that people would confuse a 6’0 man for a 5’8 one.
Other than that, I believe Allen is a strong suspect. He is the only suspect with an established motive (wanting to hunt humans, which is corroborated by eyewitness testimony). Bombs similar to the Zodiac’s descriptions were discovered in his basement. He was at Lake Berryessa on the day of the Berryessa murder and had no alibi.
The DNA proves nothing and fingerprints prove nothing because as you stated, the Zodiac gave a very detailed method of how he created fake fingerprints. This kind of deceptive behavior is reminiscent of how hunters hunt game, which is interesting to consider since Allen was an avid hunter. The DNA from one stamp could’ve been anyone’s and as far as I am aware, it has not been linked to more than one stamp. Furthermore, Don Cheney has stated that Allen had others lick his stamps and envelopes, not because he was ahead of his time and knew about the future of DNA testing but because the glue made him sick.
Allen still remains a top suspect in my opinion. However, the height problem needs to be addressed.
There is no height problem, really – or, perhaps I should say: not that much of a problem. To judge height accurately, we need a reference point and perspective. You can’t estimate height accurately from a distance or from upwardly or downwardly perspective, at night, or with no reference point. Even trained in this kind of visual estimation, there will most likely be a margin of error.
Allen was 6’0" – which falls in the range of Zodiac’s witness description, the most accurate probably (my opinion) – from Lake Berryessa.
“Nobody called him Arthur.”
There is no height problem, really – or, perhaps I should say: not that much of a problem. To judge height accurately, we need a reference point and perspective. You can’t estimate height accurately from a distance or from upwardly or downwardly perspective, at night, or with no reference point. Even trained in this kind of visual estimation, there will most likely be a margin of error.
Allen was 6’0" – which falls in the range of Zodiac’s witness description, the most accurate probably (my opinion) – from Lake Berryessa.
I am just going by what the eyewitness descriptions say. I read the police reports and don’t think people are going to mistake a 6’0 man for a 5’9 man. In states of fear, people tend to overestimate size rather than underestimate. And nobody described the Zodiac as being 6’0. There’s no reason to believe the three women at Lake Berryessa saw the Zodiac. The height given by witnesses is actually consistent: around 5’9.
And nobody described the Zodiac as being 6’0.
https://youtu.be/HI0jnsbZwys?t=1759
https://youtu.be/HI0jnsbZwys?t=3896
aside of LB’s OTHER witnessess.
also, you could look up what B. Hartnell actually said about Allen.
There’s no reason to believe the three women at Lake Berryessa saw the Zodiac.
There’s no reason? Okay, if you say so. I think there’s reason.
The height given by witnesses is actually consistent: around 5’9.
Not really, no.
“Nobody called him Arthur.”
And nobody described the Zodiac as being 6’0.
https://youtu.be/HI0jnsbZwys?t=1759
https://youtu.be/HI0jnsbZwys?t=3896aside of LB’s OTHER witnessess.
also, you could look up what B. Hartnell actually said about Allen.There’s no reason to believe the three women at Lake Berryessa saw the Zodiac.
There’s no reason? Okay, if you say so. I think there’s reason.
The height given by witnesses is actually consistent: around 5’9.
Not really, no.
Known witnesses have said the Zodiac was around 5’9. Mageau said it. The three witnesses at the Paul Stine murder said it. If the man Fouke saw was the Zodiac, then according to him the Zodiac was 5’8. So, yeah, the Zodiac was a short man, not 6’0 to 6’2. The three women at Berryessa saw a suspicious man who was checking them out. There’s no indication he was the Zodiac Killer. They said he had black hair but Hartnell and his girlfriend said they could see brown hair through the hood, not black hair. The Berryessa sketch doesn’t look like the Stine sketch either. These are the reasons why I say there’s no reason to believe those women saw the Zodiac.
Regardless, I haven’t ruled Allen out as the Zodiac. I’ve simply said that the height is a problem.
Friend:
So, yeah, the Zodiac was a short man, not 6’0 to 6’2.
Regardless, I haven’t ruled Allen out as the Zodiac.
“Nobody called him Arthur.”
Friend:
So, yeah, the Zodiac was a short man, not 6’0 to 6’2.
Regardless, I haven’t ruled Allen out as the Zodiac.
What do you mean by that? My point is that Allen remains a top suspect for reasons other than his height but that his height is an issue. We must look at eyewitness descriptions. Allen fits the eyewitness description except for having brown hair and being around 5’9. But there are things that keep him on the suspect list such as bombs being discovered in his basement.
I mean that one excludes the other.
There is much, much more than bombs in my opinion.
Let’s consider one thing: was there ever an actaul positive identification of any Zodiac suspect by an actual witness?
I’ll answer myself: yes. One.
P.S. I really do appreciate that you’ve read the case files. Thumbs up. Everyone should start there.
“Nobody called him Arthur.”
I mean that one excludes the other.
There is much, much more than bombs in my opinion.
Let’s consider one thing: was there ever an actaul positive identification of any Zodiac suspect by an actual witness?
I’ll answer myself: yes. One.P.S. I really do appreciate that you’ve read the case files. Thumbs up. Everyone should start there.
You are correct. There are more than bombs. A lot of stuff points to Allen being the Zodiac. However, a lot of stuff also points to him not being the Zodiac, not only the height issue. While the DNA test isn’t at this point definitive, it’s still a somewhat blow at the moment to Allen being the Zodiac. Nancy Slover said Allen wasn’t the man whom she talked to. Allen was bald and to my knowledge no wigs have ever been found. You say was there a positive identification of a Zodiac suspect by an eyewitness? Yes. Nancy Slover said that Richard Gaikowski’s voice was the voice she talked to, and Kathleen Johns who is most likely a victim of the Zodiac picked Lawrence Kane as her abductor. So this case isn’t so simple.
I’ll reply point by point – it’ll be easier that way because of many issues.
1. There is no height issue. Normal discrepancy only.
2. The DNA vs Allen was a scam. It is a blow, yes, but not to the case that Allen is the Zodiac.
3. Nancy told publicly that "Leigh Allen didn’t sound like him". Yes.
4. No wigs were ever found, true. Also, no gun linked to Zodiac was ever found. They found a typewritter, a knife. Has it changed anything?
5. Nancy didn’t say that she talked to Gaikowski. She said, his voice was closest she ever heard (If I’m wrong – show me).
(Points 3 and 5 really don’t change anything in this case)
6. Kathleen Johns… and Larry Kane. Here you should read more about it or should’t use this as a serious argument, because it isn’t (sorry).
This case isn’t simple. It’s very simple.
“Nobody called him Arthur.”
I’ll reply point by point – it’ll be easier that way because of many issues.
1. There is no height issue. Normal discrepancy only.
2. The DNA vs Allen was a scam. It is a blow, yes, but not to the case that Allen is the Zodiac.
3. Nancy told publicly that "Leigh Allen didn’t sound like him". Yes.
4. No wigs were ever found, true. Also, no gun linked to Zodiac was ever found. They found a typewritter, a knife. Has it changed anything?
5. Nancy didn’t say that she talked to Gaikowski. She said, his voice was closest she ever heard (If I’m wrong – show me).
(Points 3 and 5 really don’t change anything in this case)
6. Kathleen Johns… and Larry Kane. Here you should read more about it or should’t use this as a serious argument, because it isn’t (sorry).This case isn’t simple. It’s very simple.
1. There’s a height issue. No one said Zodiac was a tall guy. Almost all have said he was about 5’9. Even Hartnell said in an interview that the man who tried to kill him was short or average in height.
2. It was a scam? How so? All I am saying is that forensic scientists follow the evidence and that the DNA results from an envelope belonging to the Zodiac didn’t match Allen’s DNA. Of course, it’s premature to make any conclusions until more samples from other envelopes and stamps are compared but as it stands now it’s not a plus towards Allen being the Zodiac.
3. Yes.
4. It definitely is a blow to Allen being the Zodiac. Allen was balding but all reports said the Zodiac had brown hair. Allen’s home was thoroughly searched but no wigs were ever found. No one has ever reported selling a wig to a man fitting Allen’s description either.
5. Here’s an audio of her saying in her opinion Richard’s voice is the voice she talked to: https://www.zodiackiller.com/nancygyke.mp3
6. The fact is that Kathleen chose the man in the Stine sketch as her abductor and the Zodiac took responsibility. She later positively identified Kane. I’ve heard all of the arguments against it and in my opinion they don’t hold up.
You are looking at all of the pros for Allen being the Zodiac and ignoring all of the cons. And you’re unwilling to consider that Allen may not be the Zodiac. That’s not a good approach to take.
