o.k., just gonna say it.

sort of bored looking at interesting posts just to find Tom V is mad about something lol

o.k., just gonna say it.

sort of bored looking at interesting posts just to find Tom V is mad about something lol

preach it.

sort of bored looking at interesting posts just to find Tom V is mad about something lol

So you’re a proponent of stealing? Good to know. God forbid any of you should come up with a unique find, I’ll take credit for it in a repost a decade later.

o.k., just gonna say it.

sort of bored looking at interesting posts just to find Tom V is mad about something lol

preach it.

for effing REAL!

Funny how none of you have the guts to share whatever grievance you have with me. It’s really not that hard. For example: In this very thread, I called out BDHOLLAND for taking my unique research find and re-posting it under his own name. See there? And believe it or not, you can do it, too!

IMHO, nobody does because the "grievances" are either non-existent, petty crap from back in 2008, or stem from propaganda you read at Butterfield’s site.

Funny how none of you have the guts to share whatever grievance you have with me.

Soooo… even though I do recognize your comment as an attempt by you to feed your own need for controversy [for lack of a better term] … I’ll take the bait and reply anyway.

It doesn’t take guts to share grievances. Any simpleton can do that. It takes restraint NOT to. I have restraint. I have been waiting and waiting and waiting for you to say something useful, helpful, nice. That moment never comes. I read the board every night hoping to land on a thread that is actually furthering the discussion of who might be the Zodiac Killer. Every night I find your comments that derail any attempt to further those discussions. It’s ridiculous. I find myself wondering why you are on this board when you have your own board. I then come to the conclusion that you are here to rile people up and put people down to resolve some deep need you have to feel superior. I then leave the board for the night and come back the next to find the same ol same ol.

Please go ahead and reply to my comment by telling me how stupid I am or incompetent I am because I perhaps misspelled a word or didn’t use the correct punctuation or haven’t contributed anything to the board. I’ll expect that from you. I’ll be just fine. Please finally realize though that if you do that … it’s because I am right and you do have to feel superior no matter the what.

Margie, this won’t work unless you can give a specific example. Which apparently shouldn’t be hard for you to find.

Also…it always amazes me how people choose to ignore what leads up to my allegedly offending remarks. Why is that?

And if I’m so ungodly awful, why hasn’t morf spanked me?

Good luck with your restraint, please let me know what not defending yourself gets you.

Hi I’m Eduard. I am a former crime lab technician and now a science teacher. I have been "Zodiac interested" since 1999 (Tom, knows lol) and I have witnessed a lot of bickering and online fighting on forums  in all those years.

The problem always starts because people do not see the difference between a theory or a fact.

When I come up with a theory I always write "Could it be..?" "I think it could have…" because it’s a theory and not hard facts at that moment.

I have seen a lot of Z-researchers that show a theory and bring it out as if it’s a fact.

I have once created two Z related websites in the past maybe you did hear about them in references.

"The Zodiac-Batman Connection" was clearly a theory site. I saw similarities in the Z crimes and the first comic issues of the caped crusader.
My theory was that Z could have been influences by comics (I think I was the first one mentioning that Z could have been influenced by comics instead of movies or TV shows).
The site was based on a theory. There was no hard evidence he loved Batman comics but I found the similarities (in 1 to 5 of the first 6 comics ever) very striking. Maybe I will start a thread called "The Zodiac-Batman Connection Revisited" for the new people here.

The other site was "The Cheri Jo Bates murder" and was created to collect info about that case and trying to stay accurate to facts. There were 2 theories on those pages (one theory was why I thought Zodiac might be linked to this crime) but that were just theories and no hard facts.

The best is to keep theory and fact seperate untill the theory you have can be proven by hard evidence. But remember… most scientific discoveries started with a good theory.

Greets,
Eduard

I think it would be important to note you are talking about common usage of the word theory here and not a scientific theory. A scientific theory is a fact because it is comprised of only objective facts and is 100% empirical. It starts it’s life as a hypothesis. A scientific hypothesis is also composed of only facts and is empirical but has not been corroborated with the extensive testing it needs to become a fully fledged scientific theory. For example, the theory of evolution, is a fact. The theory of quantum electrodynamics is a fact. The theory of relativistic gravity is a fact. There are some caveats when it comes to the philosophy of empiricism and especially confirmation. So we turn to Popper, Kuhn, Sokel, philosophers of science for the larger discussion on those problems.

The common use of the word theory is the sort of theory we talk about when one falls out of bed with a good idea. I think you mean, this theory.

The problem though I think is not this. The problem is more profound and has to do with basic etiquette when communicating with other human beings. Those who get this, do this. We are social creatures. Those who don’t get it, don’t follow through with the change they need to make. It’s their lives. They are free to do as they want but it is important to point out when it is no longer socially acceptable. If it persists we can only ignore it and move on which is exactly what I do about it. Forgive, use ignore button and move on. Everything else a waste of time, IMO, but you are welcome to try.

Also as a note criminology will contain whole heaps of areas that are not scientific. Just like psychology or social sciences. We can argue a different way other than the scientific method. Rules of logic etc.

BTW – to see the link between scientific theory and fact all one has to ask is this – "what part of the theory is not a fact?" When you see it is composed of only facts (which it must be to be empirical) you get the congruence.

Also don’t let me get in the way of you talking about science. It’s a good topic.

Personally if I was to make a scientific claim it would start with, "The science says…."

BD,

Agreeing with you 100% and that’s a fact.

BD,

Agreeing with you 100% and that’s a fact.

I agree with you also.

What I try not to do is judge others. I can only speak to what we expect when socializing. Who knows how long anyone can be civil including myself. Tomorrow something could happen to throw whatever moral compass I thought I might have into the sea. Turn into that which I am criticizing. It is all too easy to do and like a boxer comes out of nowhere and then your down. Almost like alcoholism when I think about it.

I have seen some people I thought were terrible become the very opposite. I have seen it go the other way also.

Some people are climbing mountains to make a tiny change. Some people take two steps up the stairs and make huge change.

Who has made the greater effort to get there?

As someone once said to me here… who knows what people are going through. I can’t even begin to imagine. I just hope it gets better for them all.

Sometimes what I thought was wise, wasn’t at all. Sometimes what I thought was nonsense, turned out not to be. The EARONS case was one big lesson in that.

However another person said to me we have to try. In the end we will just be kicking ourselves for not if we can.

I hate to get all weird on everybody and talk about the subject of the thread, but . . . .

Is there any objective evidence of a comprehensive list of the people who mailed "get-well" cards to Hartnell?

No.