Does seem awkward, and I’ve always been surprised at how talkative Hartnell was throughout. But his statement and the reporting of it has been consistent over time — especially compared to Mike Mageau, and some of the LE reporting/observing of PH.

…and the fact that you can see he didn’t remember "deer lodge", thus making the subsequent "deer lodge" theories seem far-fetched.

…and the fact that you can see he didn’t remember "deer lodge", thus making the subsequent "deer lodge" theories seem far-fetched.

Yes. It seems like maybe he was surprised that Bryan was engaging in conversation with him and taken off guard with the question so he paused while he thought of a prison he’d heard about in the news.

Odd that he would repeat deer lodge after telling Bryan that he escaped from there. Almost sounds like he was trying to throw attention on Deer Lodge, which is what everyone here has suggested that he must have known about Deer Lodge somehow but that he wasn’t ever there. Not to mention the Mexico comment also seems contrived.

I wonder too if Bryan ever had the sense that the masked man was a lunatic, or if he was sold on him as just a desperate escaped prisoner that whole time. The factual way the man said things and then did the opposite, and the way he seems (per Bryan’s statement) to get so excited to show his gun but not animated about much else, strike me as if he was not in his right mind — prison story aside.

I realize these are rhetorical comments — if Bryan were talking about it, I guess we’d know more about what his perspective was over time. It’s crazy to picture how young they were.

I’m sorry. Personally, I don’t believe him. Someone points a gun at you and you think you might get a paper out of it?
And why would you use your teeth to try to untie someone? He was able to ‘scoot’ round to call for help. Were his fingers tied? (So many things that don’t fit, but this probably isn’t the thread for it.)

I’m sorry. Personally, I don’t believe him. Someone points a gun at you and you think you might get a paper out of it?
And why would you use your teeth to try to untie someone? He was able to ‘scoot’ round to call for help. Were his fingers tied? (So many things that don’t fit, but this probably isn’t the thread for it.)

As far as I recall, both BH and CS’s hands and fingers were totaly numb due to that Zodiac tightened the clothesline he tied them with so hard, so they were in fact brilliant and used their teeth.

And due to BHs sociology major study he probably knew that talking as much as possible with the person who is a potential danger to you, could possibly weaken the dehumanized view the potential assailant have of you as a victim, so BHs talkative behaviour IMHO was an attempt to exercise damage control, in vain unfortunately.

And Zydeco…take my advice; stop being sarcastic about a Zodiac victim!

It’s a bizarre scene, no question about it. But let’s keep in mind that Z’s scheme (as I take it) actually worked: They’re not panicking. Whether or not they actually believe he’s an escaped convict headed for Mexico doesn’t really matter – the main thing is that they don’t believe he’s going to kill them. And why should they? Z doesn’t come across as particularly homicidal. A loon, a freak – certainly. But is there any reason to doubt that he – actually – just wants the car for whatever reason? I wouldn’t say so. When he strikes, it comes as a complete surprise.

Bryan is an intelligent guy, a coolheaded one too in his way. That he decides to engage the man in this kind of talk isn’t surprising. He wants to keep communicating with the guy, pacify him as much as possible, let him know they aren’t going to do anything foolish. It’s the sane thing to do in an extremely stressful situation.

Maybe Bryan is a Capricorn!

Maybe Bryan is a Capricorn!

Cecelia was:

Cecelia Ann Shepard
1 Jan 1947 …Capricorn

Bryan Calvin Hartnell
1 Jul 1949 …Cancer

Hi-

This was posted by Jake Wark on the Voigt board in 2001. Does anyone know what interview this was?

"In his last known interview on the attack at Lake Berryessa, Brian Hartnell reiterated his equivocation on the Zodiac’s weight. Though many early interviews have him describing Z as really big, Hartnell raised the point again that this description was based on a jacket that may or may not have been padded or lined. He recalled that most of the suspects the police showed him were bigger than the man who attacked him, and he wondered if he was too forceful in his description of a heavy man."

Thanks!

Mike

People gain and lose weight. Zodiac could have been heavy as described by Bryan but then went on a crash diet after he’d read about his description in the news.

Also, Bryan was lying down so his perception of weight and height could have been different than it would have been had he been standing. Bryan wore glasses. Did he have them on at the time of the attack? My guess is he probably had taken them off so maybe this would have an effect on his observations as well.

Might have had an extra pair of pants and shirt on to remove after they got blood splattered.

"Might have"…leads the guy to be just about any body style, any hair color, etc.