Good work. That is new to me.

Since that was probably only carried in that little local Helena, Montana newspaper, a valid question would be were any known Z suspects driving through Helena around Sept 22, 1969…

They were recaptured Oct. 29 in Portland Ore.

Billings Gazette
Oct. 30, 1969

Pretty sure this was discussed at the old mb…I’ll see if I can find it.

Good work. That is new to me.

Since that was probably only carried in that little local Helena, Montana newspaper, a valid question would be were any known Z suspects driving through Helena around Sept 22, 1969…

it would be put out on the AP wire to every where , likely making a SF newspaper.
LE within a 800 -1k miles radius would know of it very soon after to be looking for them .

Good work. That is new to me.

Since that was probably only carried in that little local Helena, Montana newspaper, a valid question would be were any known Z suspects driving through Helena around Sept 22, 1969…

it would be put out on the AP wire to every where , likely making a SF newspaper.
LE within a 800 -1k miles radius would know of it very soon after to be looking for them .

I doubt this small story of minor felons walking away from a prison in Montana would make an SF paper. If you think otherwise you could check the SF papers for that day and if you find an article post it. Maybe it was.

There are prison escapes all the time. My question is why didn’t Z say he just escaped from San Quentin or another California prison? Why was obscure Deer Lodge, Montana in the mind and on the mind of Zodiac in September 1969?

It is a good find, QT. The first question I have about this is still whether Zodiac really mentioned Deer Lodge Prison to Hartnell at all. Hartnell is unable to recall the name and it almost seems to be suggested to him in his interview (I know you’re aware of that, just providing links for folks to play along at home). It’s really odd actually how Sgt. John Robertson, who is interviewing Hartnell, jumps from Hartnell’s "Fern Lock?’ to saying "It’s Lodge". I do still think it IS likely that this is what Z mentioned but I think it’s less than certain.

http://www.zodiackiller.com/HartnellInterview2.html
http://www.zodiackiller.com/HartnellInterview3.html

If he did mention Deer Lodge, there are a couple of possibilities:

a. Z was being honest and he DID actually escape from Deer Lodge by killing a guard.
b. He saw the May article in SF newspapers about the escape.
c. He saw this more recent but seemingly more local escape attempt somewhere.
d. He pulled Deer Lodge Prison out of his *** or was aware of it by some other means.

Take your pick. I would still probably go with B if I had to bet on it.

For me the question is why Montana?

Presumably Zodiac wanted to tell a story to put his victims at ease, to make them think he just wanted their car and their money, and was not going to thrill kill them. So he says he just escaped from prison.

OK, why pick Montana? Back then prison escapes were more common. Surely there would have been newspaper items about escapes from California prisons in 1968 and 1969. And he doesn’t need an article to spur the idea.

Why doesn’t Z just say he escaped from San Quentin? Or another California prison? Or at least from a state that borders California, like Oregon, Nevada or Arizona? Montana is a good distance from California, and Deer Lodge is a pretty small and obscure prison compared to the ones in California.

And the question of the killed guard is still unanswered, too.

QT

A K Wilks
I have to disagree, prison escapee’s are big news and always have been ,it is sort of a public service to report the story , as they are likely to encounter some person to rob or worse somewhere . most captures of them are started from civilians reporting them or a suspicious person.
Yes SF is a long ways from Montana ,but the criminals might know there best chance was to move far as they could and to a big city.

Did Zodiac mean to leave Bryan alive long enough to tell his story ,other wise why tell it at all
he sure must have thought Cecila would not be around to talk and bryan claims he played dead to get Z to stop stabbing . LE would have started to focus on the 2 escapee’s giving Z a better chance to flee farther

Unless someone can find and post an SF paper that carried the story, I think that QT’s find is more reason to think Z had been in the Deer Lodge-Helena area in the weeks before the LB attack.

Unless someone can find and post an SF paper that carried the story, I think that QT’s find is more reason to think Z had been in the Deer Lodge-Helena area in the weeks before the LB attack.

For all we know, there was a tv news broadcast of it, or Z had a relative in Deer Lodge that told him about it over the phone.

Unless someone can find and post an SF paper that carried the story, I think that QT’s find is more reason to think Z had been in the Deer Lodge-Helena area in the weeks before the LB attack.

For all we know, there was a tv news boradcast of it, or Z had a relative in Deer Lodge that told him about it over the phone.

Or he just met the two guys as long as they were outside of the prison.

QT

Unless someone can find and post an SF paper that carried the story, I think that QT’s find is more reason to think Z had been in the Deer Lodge-Helena area in the weeks before the LB attack.

Or maybe related to one of these guys.

Mentioned in the police report.

In May 1969, two inmates could escape however were apprehended soon afterwards.

What is new, is that on September 22, 1969, even more convicts could escape the prison. This is only five days before the Lake Berryessa attack. As far as I know, this is new info.

Convicts Escape DEER LODGE (API – Two prisoners escaped late Sunday from the medium security compound at the state prison near Deer Lodge. They were identified as Carl Pierce, 27, and Ronald Woods, 22. Acting Prison Warden Charles Deli said the two men cut the fence behind the base-hall backstop at Rothe Hall, about 9 p.m. Sunday. He said Pierce, who had been in the prison since Nov. 5, 1968 (?), was serving an eight-year sentence from Custer County for robbery. He was a miner by occupation. Woods was serving a 15-year sentence for first-degree assault from Lewis and Clark County. A brick layer by occupation, he has been in the prison since July 32, 1960, Deli said the escapees are the first since the look over Aug. 19 after the Board of Institutions discharged (he former warden, E. C. Ellswfh. Security guards were searching the area around the compound in the Deer Lodge Valley. Dell said there were no immediate reports of stolen vehicles,

QT

Is the age of that second escapee, Woods, correct? If he was 22 at the time of his escape, and he entered prison in 1960, that makes him 13 in 1960…a little young for being "a brick layer by occupation" who received a 15 year sentence for first degree assault.

JS