It is fairly evident by now that the "by knife" writing on the car door was not released prior to October 27th 1970. Therefore, putting aside police/investigators being responsible for the Halloween card, the only logical derivative, is that the Halloween card was created by the killer of Cecelia Shepard. That means the same copycat is responsible for both, or the Zodiac Killer is responsible for both. This would suggest that one person is inextricably linked to both.

It too, could just be a coincidence as it was known they were attacked "by knife", but that is a stretch…a possibility, but a stretch.

I have to wonder if any other communiques (future or otherwise) used the term "by rope", "by gun", or "by fire" in relation to any murders. Why stop with "by knife"?

I have already looked extensively and found nothing. Your finding of the Tim Holt comic and the wording By Fire, By Gun, By Rope and By Knife was excellent. We assume the creator of the Halloween card just stumbled across the comic prior to the mailing of the Halloween card. But what if he had found the comic prior to Lake Berryessa- it could have been the inspiration for the writing "by knife" on the car door, rather than the other way round.

I imagine it’s something he probably saw in his youth.

Had Cecilia Shepard known the assailant, she would have recognized his voice, maybe? The man talked quite a lot to her and BH, from what I can understand.

Maybe she would have known him by sight only, and maybe he knew that.

Very good point…we know that Darlene Ferrin had closed her windows at night, correct? Some peeping Tom issues? If Z had gone for the windows (Darlene Ferrin, possibly Betty Lou Jensen and Cecilia Shepard, too), then Cecilia would have known his face but not his voice. At the time she saw him, he had a gun anyway..

If Z was ‘stalking’ his girls, he might have lived in the area, too. Same could have happened with CJB.

QT

What bugs me in all this stalking theory is that then the killer had to follow the couples he attacked everywhere until the right occasion to whack them showed up! To me this is faaaar-fetched, not plausible at all.

Maybe she would have known him by sight only, and maybe he knew that.

Very good point…we know that Darlene Ferrin had closed her windows at night, correct? Some peeping Tom issues? If Z had gone for the windows (Darlene Ferrin, possibly Betty Lou Jensen and Cecilia Shepard, too), then Cecilia would have known his face but not his voice. At the time she saw him, he had a gun anyway..

If Z was ‘stalking’ his girls, he might have lived in the area, too. Same could have happened with CJB.

QT

What bugs me in all this stalking theory is that then the killer had to follow the couples he attacked everywhere until the right occasion to whack them showed up! To me this is faaaar-fetched, not plausible at all.

Yeah. I do not think he stalked them long-term either, definitely not for longer than say for 30 minutes before an attack. It just seems too fictional that everyone he stalks magically ends up in a desolate place where he can then kill them. If he already stalked Darlene, how would he have managed to stalk Cecelia too, who at the time did not even live anywhere near? Stalkers generally do not stalk multiple unrelated people as it’s time-consuming enough to stalk just one person only. I believe that he, as he stated in the letter, simply killed "lone people in the night" and these women just happened to be there.

Those were moreless the last words of Cecilia Shepard.

No, those were by far not her last words. What you are seeing in the report is what she said to Ranger White when he first arrived and the couple named White. She didn’t say much to either and was still in a very upset and scared state.

What I am referring to is what she said to Detective Lonergan (hope I spelled his name correctly) when he arrived. She had calmed down considerably when he arrived. None of what he noted she told him is in the police reports that we have access to. You can hear his own first hand account here, around the 101 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI0jnsbZwys&t=3983s

The interviewers asked why it isn’t in the police report that she saw his face and he said "he didn’t think it was important". But none of what he says is in the police report that I can find.

Now, he said he took notes and the next morning made a report, it’s just a report we haven’t been shown because the police held it back would be my guess. I always got the feeling when they asked Lonergan why it wasn’t in the police report, he realized he had talked about something he wasn’t suppose to.

Well, based on this statement I think you are right..still some doubts regarding her seeing Z without hood but ok. She did state to not having seen his face, though (according to e.g. Lonergan).

QT

…Now, he said he took notes and the next morning made a report, it’s just a report we haven’t been shown because the police held it back would be my guess. I always got the feeling when they asked Lonergan why it wasn’t in the police report, he realized he had talked about something he wasn’t suppose to.

That’s Collins not Lonergan, isn’t it? His (and Land’s) report is here…
http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/galler … play_media

…Now, he said he took notes and the next morning made a report, it’s just a report we haven’t been shown because the police held it back would be my guess. I always got the feeling when they asked Lonergan why it wasn’t in the police report, he realized he had talked about something he wasn’t suppose to.

That’s Collins not Lonergan, isn’t it? His (and Land’s) report is here…
http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/galler … play_media

Yeah, sorry, Collins, not Lonergan. But still I see nothing in the report about what she said to him.

Well, based on this statement I think you are right..still some doubts regarding her seeing Z without hood but ok. She did state to not having seen his face, though (according to e.g. Lonergan).

QT

He said he asked her if she saw him clearly before he put on the hood and she said yes, he then goes into what happened after he put on the hood. She also said he would stop and watch them for a while. They ask him at the end why no one knows she saw his face, why isn’t it in the report, that’s when he says "because I didn’t think it was important at the time".

So while she only saw him without the hood at a distance, 50-75 feet according to Collins, she did see him unless Collins is lying and I don’t think he is. She watched him approach and stop occasionally and watch them. I’m fairly certain between that and hearing him speak if she would have known him she would have said so.

Back in 1998 when I was allowed access at the Napa County Sheriff’s Department, I found the details of Cecelia’s description of Zodiac without his hood on. Somehow it didn’t get copied for me with the rest of the report. The info came from a female e.m.t. who rode in the back of the ambulance with Cecelia.

I would certainly goes with Tom’s version as I don’t think Collins got the description. How could it not be important? He also said it was Cecelia’s description that allowed them to make the composite. Why…who knows.

Cecelia talked about him before he went behind the tree so I would gather she noticed some things about him…it’s how they were interpreted that I might question.

Back in 1998 when I was allowed access at the Napa County Sheriff’s Department, I found the details of Cecelia’s description of Zodiac without his hood on. Somehow it didn’t get copied for me with the rest of the report. The info came from a female e.m.t. who rode in the back of the ambulance with Cecelia.

The site linked by RTF doesn’t have anything about what Collins said about it either. Nothing about a female emt as well. I guess maybe you can read it if you go there but can’t get a copy for some reason? Neither your reports or the other site say anything about the young couple in the parking lot with the three girls, other than their names, car had Arizona tags and the girls saw them at the beach. Surely they were found and interviewed?

I would certainly goes with Tom’s version as I don’t think Collins got the description.

Well, Collins never said he got a description from Cecelia in the documentary, other than a few basic things, color of hair, skin etc.

How could it not be important?

Yeah, damn good question. Maybe it was in his notes but didn’t make it into the report. I don’t think they ever got to talk to her after again she got to the hospital.

He also said it was Cecelia’s description that allowed them to make the composite. Why…who knows.

That’s the first I’ve heard that. I always thought it was from the three girls.

Cecelia talked about him before he went behind the tree so I would gather she noticed some things about him…it’s how they were interpreted that I might question.

I’d love to see what she told the emt on the way to the hospital. I don’t know, but it seems quite a bit has been held back.

Collins was quite old in 2007 when interviewed and was obviously having memory problems. Plus sometimes people get loopy when they know they are being filmed.

Cecelia had nothing to do with a sketch.

I don’t believe the report with her description was intentionally withheld from me. Luckily I read it closely. Zodiac was clean shaven and had brownish hair. And he was wearing glasses.

Collins was quite old in 2007 when interviewed and was obviously having memory problems. Plus sometimes people get loopy when they know they are being filmed.

OK, not being doubtful, I’m getting confused. What was he wrong about in the documentary interview? Just want to know what part to trust, if any.

Cecelia had nothing to do with a sketch.

OK, thanks, I thought maybe this one was done from her description.

http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/galler … play_media

Tahoe, do you remember where Collins said that?

I don’t believe the report with her description was intentionally withheld from me. Luckily I read it closely. Zodiac was clean shaven and had brownish hair. And he was wearing glasses.

I see. So you think maybe it was accidentally not included? Did it give you the idea she had got a good look at his face?

The Berryessa composite was not a drawing or sketch, it was created using something called an identi-kit , essentially a Mr. Potatohead game. The three possible female witnesses were the contributors.

I don’t know anything about the people with Arizona tags on their car.

Collins might have had dementia, virtually everything he said in the interview was either wrong or just weird.