Correct, Z knew what button Belli used to wear. Most likely not from tv or print media but from meeting him at least once.

QT

Say what? Button Belli wore?

The button actually read "Melville Eats Blubber". I think it was just Zodiac’s way of being funny. Another jab at Belli.

I rather think about Z mentioning not so nasty ones like Belli’s. Thus he most likely knew about what kind of buttons were used by him (e.g. American Bar Association?).

QT

Melville eats Blubber Button, a jab at Belli always reminds me that Belli sure ate out a lot, he was a fixture in San Francisco Resturants. Once I saw him at Sear’s Fine Dining in SF at the end of a table all by himself, having a feast.
Kinda off topic: but here’s a link to the Resturant. http://www.searsfinefood.com/history/

Zam*

Do you still remember which button he had on his suit?

QT

I still suspect Vallejo, zodiac had to at least have been spending a good deal of time in vallejo, if not living there.

The Stine letter has Z taking credit for the murders in the North Bay Area. The writing on the door at LB mentions Vallejo specifically.

IF the guy who shot the 5 victims was from Vallejo as you suspect, wouldn’t that be even more reason for him to distance himself from the LB stabbing?

Suppose you’re "real" Zodiac and you are, in fact, living in Vallejo. You’ve killed at LHR and BRS, sent letters and codes, and so on. All is going fine. Until, suddenly, some imposter creates some bizarre costume, kills some people using your alias, which in a sense is framing you for it. But what really disturbs you is that he has written the name of your home town right on that car door.

If I’m Z, I need to do a few things right away. First, re-establish myself with an unmistakeable attack somewhere other than my home town, and clarify in a letter that I am the killer in the North Bay Area (Not Napa, not Vallejo.) Back to my same MO – use a gun, no time for much conversation with the victim, confirm with letters and evidence that proves it was me beyond doubt. I would distance myself from LB quickly because if LE thinks that was me up there in the hood and bib, they are seeing my location in big bold letters right in front of them.

Of course, I couldn’t outright deny LB because bright people in LE would wonder why, and they would assume there was something about that crime that was dangerous to me.

IF the guy who shot the 5 victims was from Vallejo as you suspect, wouldn’t that be even more reason for him to distance himself from the LB stabbing?

Hmmm…

Very good point.

Like I said, most criminals tend to commit their crimes at a distance from their residence, though usually not straying too far.

…and your point would clearly steer one away from Vallejo.

…had not thought of that. Again, good point.

I have heard locals casually refer To blue rock springs as "the park", but you are right, "the public park" does sound odd.

And in the letter he calls it the golf course. I think the golf course in just across the street. So it seems while familiar with the area, he didn’t know it innately as a local would.

I have always speculated Vallejo as a good place to start looking for zodiac’s location.

I have also suspected that zodiac May have been located in Fremont or Pleasanton, or Richmond or Dublin simply because criminals tend to avoid committing crimes near their homes, but they generally won’t stray too far.

however, the issue with the bay area is that even before the BART was built many people from these outlying cities were familiar with the other cities of the bay area, and frequently traveled between them, I mean every city between Napa and vallejo down south To San Jose and Santa Cruz is an option…

the mention of "peace sign", "black power", and "Melvin eats blubber" pins made me suspect Berkeley, because of the college.

Honestly who knows.

I still suspect Vallejo, zodiac had to at least have been spending a good deal of time in vallejo, if not living there.

The "Melvin eats blubber" one is particularly interesting to me. That one seems like something he would have to see, I’m not sure how popular they were outside the Berkley area. The peace sign and black power thing would be in all the news.

I only discount Vallejo because he didn’t seem to know the name of BRS, but it’s certainly a possibility I wouldn’t discount. He certainly was familiar with that area. I mean, BRS or Lake Berryesa you could find on a map or learn from word of mouth, but that parking spot on LHR would take a local to know. It’s possible he drove by it often as that road takes you to or from Benicia or across the straight, might have been a work route.

The buttons zodiac mentioned had always made me suspect Berkeley…

However, I assumed that vallejo was mentioned for other reasons, mostly involving the vallejo police, who at the time actually really needed something like a zodiac killer to revive their department…but this is all nonsense speculation connected to richard Hoffman as a BRS suspect.

I always thought it was strange how similar these names were, like "Mel Nicolai" and "Mel Belli" …but I am certain it’s coincidence.

Actually, lake herman road and blue Rock springs were very well known to the locals, particularly by the youth of those areas… and if zodiac intentionally targeted the women, and if zodiac potentially knew these women, I am sure he would also be aware of their favorite "lovers lane" type spots, even if he lived in one of the outlying cities in the bay area.

…even before the BART was built many people who lived in a bay area city would frequently travel between, and know, the other bay area cities, which makes pinpointing zodiac difficult, I mean, you can live in Berkeley and be very familiar with vallejo, Fremont, Hayward, union city, daily city, Newark, concord, walnut creek, Fairfield, Vacaville, and on and on….

… I still feel zodiac had spent a good deal of time in Vallejo, but I could be wrong.

The buttons zodiac mentioned had always made me suspect Berkeley…

I’ve read those buttons were only available in "underground" stores in the SF area, which is one reason some suspect Gaikowski. That doesn’t mean Zodiac had been to one of those stores though. A popular thing to do in those days was go to the Haight Ashbury area and check out the hippies. He might have seen those buttons just strolling along observing the surroundings. Seems he spent some time hanging around San Francisco, if he wasn’t a native that is.

Actually, lake herman road and blue Rock springs were very well known to the locals, particularly by the youth of those areas… and if zodiac intentionally targeted the women, and if zodiac potentially knew these women, I am sure he would also be aware of their favorite "lovers lane" type spots, even if he lived in one of the outlying cities in the bay area.

Agreed, it’s that small, pull over area on LHR that stands out to me though. It’s a spot you would have to know to go to. However, I sometimes wonder if the night of the LHR shootings, he had been to BRS and the park at Lake Herman looking for victims but didn’t find any, and sort of happened on to Jansen and Faraday.

…even before the BART was built many people who lived in a bay area city would frequently travel between, and know, the other bay area cities, which makes pinpointing zodiac difficult, I mean, you can live in Berkeley and be very familiar with vallejo, Fremont, Hayward, union city, daily city, Newark, concord, walnut creek, Fairfield, Vacaville, and on and on….

… I still feel zodiac had spent a good deal of time in Vallejo, but I could be wrong.

Yeah, he’s definitely familiar with those areas. How familiar is the only question. It’s not really that far of a drive between all those spots, even if he resided in San Francisco. I’ve had a suspicion his home base could have been Walnut Creek, because of it’s proximity to Mt Diablo.

I’ve read those buttons were only available in "underground" stores in the SF area, which is one reason some suspect Gaikowski. That doesn’t mean Zodiac had been to one of those stores though. A popular thing to do in those days was go to the Haight Ashbury area and check out the hippies. He might have seen those buttons just strolling along observing the surroundings. Seems he spent some time hanging around San Francisco, if he wasn’t a native that is.

Yeah, the Haight-Ashbury definitely would have been a location where those buttons would have been common.

Hey, zodiac liked theatre right? Maybe he would have encountered "the diggers*" if he was ever in the haight, they had the "free-store", and were known for feedings and performances.

(Similar groups are still around today, if you go to where the haight meets golden gate park, just down the way from the McDonalds, and go past the little pond and through the tunnel thing there is an area groups still have free food and clothing handouts.)

*

The Diggers were a radical community-action group of activists and Street Theatre actors operating from 1966 to 1968, based in the Haight-Ashbury neighborhood of San Francisco. Their politics have been categorized as "left-wing"; more accurately, they were "community anarchists" who blended a desire for freedom with a consciousness of the community in which they lived.[1] They were closely associated and shared a number of members with the guerrilla theater group San Francisco Mime Troupe.-Wikipedia

Or, the other logical option is Berkeley, the college in Berkeley was a hot-bed for the counter-culture, anti-war activism, and the general hippie movement, so the buttons would have been quite common at the college as well…

Though I too suspect that zodiac was living in the outlying area, since he used map Diablo in a letter I am guessing he might have been closer to the Novato, Petaluma or Santa Rosa area, these areas are close to the bay cities, yet out of the way of zodiac attacks or places mentioned in his letters.

…I am probably wrong, but I still have my focus on Vallejo, I think he knew Vallejo very well, if he was not living there it is possible that he had lived there in the past, or at the very least spent a good deal of time there.

Zodiac would have had to have been a person who could spend time in an area without raising suspicion, and then leave without raising suspicion. Or perhaps zodiac was an individual that we were so unlikely to suspect that he could have been living in the areas of the murders, perhaps even remaining in the area after the murders, without anybody suspecting him.

…we all want serial killers to be monsters, but in reality most of them are our friends, our neighbors, members of our own communities, and most are individuals that you would never suspect of doing such horrible things, which is often why when the truth is revealed it can be quite disappointing rather than exhilarating, because rather than catching an exotic monster, you often discover that there was a monster hiding in plain site, maybe even in someone who was respected by the community, maybe even in someone you knew…

Agreed, it’s that small, pull over area on LHR that stands out to me though. It’s a spot you would have to know to go to. However, I sometimes wonder if the night of the LHR shootings, he had been to BRS and the park at Lake Herman looking for victims but didn’t find any, and sort of happened on to Jansen and Faraday

I have always felt that the specific dates, as well as the specific victims, were chosen very carefully, well, at least the female victims, the male victims may have just been the unlucky guy who was with the doomed victim on that particular night.

In the Cheri jo bates letter the killer states: "BUT ONLY ONE THING WAS ON MY MIND. MAKING HER PAY FOR THE BRUSH OFFS THAT SHE HAD GIVEN ME DURING THE YEARS PRIOR."

I have come to feel that this was a common motive in zodiac attacks, and that in all likelihood zodiac knew the female victims. It is fairly clear that Darlene ferrin knew her shooter if there is any truth to the following statements made by Mike:

At around 24m:45s into the "this is the zodiac speaking" film we have Mike speaking about what Darlene had told him, he says:

"She told me, uhm, a friend of hers and not to worry about it, he is just jealous, that’s all she said about him, he is just jealous, she never mentions his name…she said something about RICHARD, something about his name was RICHARD, [mumbling]…named RICHARD, and I think that was his name, she referred to him as RICHARD, [places arms behind his head] the zodiac killer, the guy… she said he had a very mean temper and that if he ever found out he would kill her, he would kill her, this she mentioned those were her words, he would kill me if he ever I knew I was talking to you about that…she told me that. [Arms still behind head]

Transcribed from "this is the zodiac speaking".

-transcription by Topsy Kret / Mr. E. Mann