It looks about the same to me, any difference is likely due to Z writing on a vertical surface (at Lake Berryessa) and writing
on a flat horizontal table surface with pen and paper.

It looks about the same to me, any difference is likely due to Z writing on a vertical surface (at Lake Berryessa) and writing
on a flat horizontal table surface with pen and paper.

I would certainly agree with this. Taking a single word and comparing it written on paper and then on the door of a car – the latter of which would likely have involved bending or an unsteady crouched position, not to mention potential unnatural pen hold – is meaningless. And even then, it’s all about interpretation. Again, I am drawn to what the OP suggests as significant differences as actually demonstrating similarity.

To me they look fairly similar. As has been said writing whilst bending down could easily change someones handwriting. I also suspect writing quickly on a car door would result in less ‘flair’ in a persons handwriting than writing at leisure at a desk; out go the attractive looking but unnecessary squiggles on the j etc.

I had took the surface issue into account. It’s not that, the shaping of the letters shows how the author grasps them. The vowels doesn’t look the same, and neither do the hooked J – which is the most prominent in the Vallejo writing.

I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the same individual who was responsible for the FAKE/COPYCAT Fairfield letters: https://www.zodiacciphers.com/the-fairfield-letter.html . The J and F in "knife" from Lake Berryessa, as well as the general feeling/vibe of the handwriting, seem to fit.

I wouldn’t fall from the chair if the hooded killer of Cecilia Shepard, which may be someone who served in or visited Fairfield’s Travis Air Force Base (the Wing Walkers), is not the same hit-and-run murderer who was observed in both Blue Rock Springs and in the Paul Stine murder (hair color and height) – and that’s why the zodiac wrote this needless line: "i am the same man who did in the people in the north bay area" in his first Stine letter (October 13th, 1969); if he indeed was the same man then he wouldn’t need to state that as the "credit" was already attributed to him, he (if I’m right on this one – it may also explain the lack of mentioning the August 1969 attack on Bryan Hartnell’s car door as the perp didn’t knew it **allegedly** occured) felt he must take responsibility over this copycat’s actions, just as he did in other cases where he claimed crimes he didn’t commit (Cheri Jo Bates and Kathleen Jones) as his own to boast his terror and thus his ego.

Yea I have to say what this is showing me is that they are remarkably similar and consistent

Yea I have to say what this is showing me is that they are remarkably similar and consistent

LOL the vowels? Nope.
The J? Nope.

Yea I have to say what this is showing me is that they are remarkably similar and consistent

LOL the vowels? Nope.
The J? Nope.

I would say that you are still arguing from a position that is ungrounded, from the very fact that there will certainly be noticeable differences between any person’s handwriting when one example is taken from normal writing on a sheet of paper with a pen, the other from writing on a low, vertical, shiny surface with a marker.

Our normal writing depends on use of the wrist and outside (pinky) pad of our hand as a fulcrum for the writing action, and this is crucial to our automatic writing technique. (You can try this yourself. Write something in your normal way on a sheet of paper on a desk, then try the same without any hand or wrist contact with the paper at all.)

That said, there will remain similarities, and the similarities we see in the writing examples you present are sufficient to rule out any conclusive argument as to these examples not being by the same hand.

Firstly, the same strokes and stroke directions are exactly the same across all the letters. There are no obvious differences such as straight-l verses curled-l. The relative sizing of the full-height letters (V, l) to the half-height letters (a, e, o) is very consistent, as is the minimal relative height of the drop-letter, j.

Your overall argument is also inconsistent (i.e., in that it contains a leap in reaching your conclusion) since, in your graphic, you start of by stating:

There seems to be little resemblance between the 2 samples/sources to definitely conclude that they’re the handwriting of the same person. (Emphasis added.)

The "little resemblance" I wholly disagree with (as above), but the inference – as must always be the case in comparing writing made under non-similar conditions – is a fair one: not conclusively the handwriting of the same person.

But then, you stretch this without foundation to:

It seems to me that the Lake Berryessa killer wasn’t the one who wrote the zodiac letters.

Do you see what you did here? In regard to your assessment of the likelihood of common authorship you jumped from ‘not conclusively‘ to ‘conslusively not‘.

This is wrong.

Handwriting analysis is basically seeing whether there is a common pattern in the grasp of the letters, the surface plays smaller part in the analysis whether the same hand/person wrote 2 or more given samples.

The hooked J which seems to have been favored by the zodiac letters’ author in 71.4% of writing down the word "Vallejo" isn’t the one which is shown here on Bryan Hartnell’s car door. Then the vowels’ shapes doesn’t resemble the letters’ author as well.

I think my theory 2 comments ago about the Fairfield weirdo is accessible for u to read and do some more "scenarios’ probability" with urself. u can agree or disagree with me with whatever argument u want, I will stand by my POV. Playing semantics and words games won’t do here.

He would have been crouching as well. Not a natural position to write from. I also seem to recall somewhere on this forum that it was indicated Zodiac sent a letter which confirmed he was behind the Berryessa attack that was not released to the general public.

He would have been crouching as well. Not a natural position to write from. I also seem to recall somewhere on this forum that it was indicated Zodiac sent a letter which confirmed he was behind the Berryessa attack that was not released to the general public.

LOL whoever done it had no other way to do so, besides crouching for a brief while. If it was indeed the same guy/"zodiac" in all crimes he couldn’t have done it otherwise unless he was even shorter than what was earlier suggested.

Even if he did so, which I doubt, he also claimed he killed CheriJo Bates to get the cops off his tail and to have been responsible for Kathleen Jones’ abduction which due to his repeating the brief synopsis from the media I highly doubt had anything to do with him.

At the end of the day – he was a mindset terrorist and attention whore, he wanted to be in the headlines all the time and wished to scare everyone, everywhere.

Handwriting analysis is basically seeing whether there is a common pattern in the grasp of the letters, the surface plays smaller part in the analysis whether the same hand/person wrote 2 or more given samples.

The hooked J which seems to have been favored by the zodiac letters’ author in 71.4% of writing down the word "Vallejo" isn’t the one which is shown here on Bryan Hartnell’s car door. Then the vowels’ shapes doesn’t resemble the letters’ author as well.

I think my theory 2 comments ago about the Fairfield weirdo is accessible for u to read and do some more "scenarios’ probability" with urself. u can agree or disagree with me with whatever argument u want, I will stand by my POV. Playing semantics and words games won’t do here.

Surely you haven’t read through all the threads available here, but this has been my take as well…for the most part. My take on the individual letters coincides with yours.

The Fairfield letters, I think were written by an obvious copycat. Someone who wanted to get his own work out there and probably got a kick out of it–what a better way than to ride on the coat-tails of Zodiac. I think that person is responsible for the Halloween card, the Pines card–and the Dr. Adams craziness too, and could very well be the person who attacked Bryan and Cecelia at Lake Berryessa. I have voiced this, and while it isn’t of popular opinion….I don’t care.

Handwriting analysis is basically seeing whether there is a common pattern in the grasp of the letters, the surface plays smaller part in the analysis whether the same hand/person wrote 2 or more given samples.

The hooked J which seems to have been favored by the zodiac letters’ author in 71.4% of writing down the word "Vallejo" isn’t the one which is shown here on Bryan Hartnell’s car door. Then the vowels’ shapes doesn’t resemble the letters’ author as well.

I think my theory 2 comments ago about the Fairfield weirdo is accessible for u to read and do some more "scenarios’ probability" with urself. u can agree or disagree with me with whatever argument u want, I will stand by my POV. Playing semantics and words games won’t do here.

Surely you haven’t read through all the threads available here, but this has been my take as well…for the most part. My take on the individual letters coincides with yours.

The Fairfield letters, I think were written by an obvious copycat. Someone who wanted to get his own work out there and probably got a kick out of it–what a better way than to ride on the coat-tails of Zodiac. I think that person is responsible for the Halloween card, the Pines card–and the Dr. Adams craziness too, and could very well be the person who attacked Bryan and Cecelia at Lake Berryessa. I have voiced this, and while it isn’t of popular opinion….I don’t care.

Yeah, though I used to lurk here back when I got sucked into the case in April 2017 and in the following year.

You know what they say? Great minds think alike.