I freely admit that the Zodiac was, at this point, not City let alone State wide news. I did not say it was likely that the victims would recognize him, or hint that I am astonished they did not. The basic point I was making was that, regardless of how likely or not is was that they would recognize him, it was a possibility due to his symbol having been published. I would even say I agree Smithy, it may have been unlikely. But, unlikely as it may be, it was, nevertheless, a possibility.

Well said Seagull, and well said Welsh Chap too – yes, a possibility.
Since when does a descise actually show who it is your are? Point it out to your potential victims, and LE?
Imagine getting caught with that hood on, huh? Instant legal problem!
Some strange thinking was going on at Berryessa.

Well said Seagull, and well said Welsh Chap too – yes, a possibility.
Since when does a descise actually show who it is your are? Point it out to your potential victims, and LE?
Imagine getting caught with that hood on, huh? Instant legal problem!
Some strange thinking was going on at Berryessa.

Yeah but imagine if the dispatcher hadn’t made an error with suspect description and that Don Fouke had actually stopped, got out and approached the stocky, barrel chested Welsh Man as he shuffled his way along Jackson! I think with what Zodiac would have been caught in possession of on the street than night, namely the murder weapon, the victims blood all over him, the victims wallet, car keys and matching piece of missing shirt, he could Have Mel Beli, F. Lee Baily and God himself as his defence lawyers and it would make no difference at all. I would beg and plead with Z to take the stand in his own defence to explain the evidence away because I could do with a laugh.

If Zodiac were ever apprehended and put on trial at the time, I don’t see him even bothering to defend himself. I see him gloating on the stand, delighting in being the monster, relating the details of his crimes with glee and not once apologising. The Zodiac of 1974 and beyond may have acted differently, though.

Still struggling to recall if the newspaper ever published the crossed-circle signature. In hindsight, they really should have withheld the fact that Zodiac signed his letters with a crossed circle; it would’ve done wonders in helping to weed out the forgeries.

If Zodiac were ever apprehended and put on trial at the time, I don’t see him even bothering to defend himself. I see him gloating on the stand, delighting in being the monster, relating the details of his crimes with glee and not once apologising. The Zodiac of 1974 and beyond may have acted differently, though.

Still struggling to recall if the newspaper ever published the crossed-circle signature. In hindsight, they really should have withheld the fact that Zodiac signed his letters with a crossed circle; it would’ve done wonders in helping to weed out the forgeries.

See I’ve never seen Zodiac the man as being anything like his alter ego’s ‘Zodiac’ or ‘His’ personality. While we can’t know and your just as likely to be correct as I am, I see that personality that ‘Zodiac’ has on paper, the attention seeking braggart who boldly declares himself too clever to be captured by the ‘Pigs’ of San Francisco and seems to love hurling insults at Law Enforcement at the same time as antagonising them. All this seems to suggest man who is confrontational and a loud mouth.
Is it likely that Zodiac’s identity would have been able to remain concealed for almost half a century now if he was a loud mouthed lover of attention who, on paper, loved nothing more than to brag about his crimes he had committed as ‘The Zodac’? I really don’t see Zodiac as being similar to the likes of BTK, for example, and loving being given the floor to tell the packed room and media just what he had done. Also, the ‘Zodiac’ has no respect for any law agency or official, and reefer’s to them as pigs with prowl cars and directly insults them fearlessly it seems.
Put the man himself in an interview room with someone like Dave Tosci and Iput my money on him sitting there quietly and wouldn’t dare say the things he said in letters to their faces. Remember this is the man who had to get Cecelia to tie a male victim, and it’s’s the same coward who shot Paul Stine in a sneaky cowardly way from behind. When he’s confronted with men and he has a gun he seemingly has no confidence in himself to face them and attacks from behind. If he’s like this when he has a gun, imagine how he is would be if his advantage was taken away and he had no gun and sat in a 6 by 10 interview room with just him and a hardened, no nonsense Detective. He’d be like a little child cowering in his seat, exactly the same as Gary Ridgway was when Dave Reinherat got rite in his face reaising his coice and being the agressor

If Zodiac were ever apprehended and put on trial at the time, I don’t see him even bothering to defend himself. I see him gloating on the stand, delighting in being the monster, relating the details of his crimes with glee and not once apologising. The Zodiac of 1974 and beyond may have acted differently, though.

Still struggling to recall if the newspaper ever published the crossed-circle signature. In hindsight, they really should have withheld the fact that Zodiac signed his letters with a crossed circle; it would’ve done wonders in helping to weed out the forgeries.

See I’ve never seen Zodiac the man as being anything like his alter ego’s ‘Zodiac’ or ‘His’ personality. While we can’t know and your just as likely to be correct as I am, I see that personality that ‘Zodiac’ has on paper, the attention seeking braggart who boldly declares himself too clever to be captured by the ‘Pigs’ of San Francisco and seems to love hurling insults at Law Enforcement at the same time as antagonising them. All this seems to suggest man who is confrontational and a loud mouth.
Is it likely that Zodiac’s identity would have been able to remain concealed for almost half a century now if he was a loud mouthed lover of attention who, on paper, loved nothing more than to brag about his crimes he had committed as ‘The Zodac’? I really don’t see Zodiac as being similar to the likes of BTK, for example, and loving being given the floor to tell the packed room and media just what he had done. Also, the ‘Zodiac’ has no respect for any law agency or official, and reefer’s to them as pigs with prowl cars and directly insults them fearlessly it seems.
Put the man himself in an interview room with someone like Dave Tosci and Iput my money on him sitting there quietly and wouldn’t dare say the things he said in letters to their faces. Remember this is the man who had to get Cecelia to tie a male victim, and it’s’s the same coward who shot Paul Stine in a sneaky cowardly way from behind. When he’s confronted with men and he has a gun he seemingly has no confidence in himself to face them and attacks from behind. If he’s like this when he has a gun, imagine how he is likely to be if his advantage was taken away and he had no gun and sat in a 6 by 10 interview room with just him and a hardened, no nonsense Detective. He’d be like a little child cowering in his seat, exactly the same as Gary Ridgway was when Dave Reinherat got rite in his face raising his voice and being the aggressor.
Ridgway had stated to Dave that he couldn’t control his urges and compulsions when he got angry and had to attack. Sheriff Reinheart the got in his face and insulted him and asked "What wrong Gary, you starting to feel that uncontrollable anger building? Well I am rite here Gary, I am rite here for you to take that anger out on. Am I hurting your feelings? Does it make your blood boil? Well do something about it Gary, make your move, you can strangle the life out of weaker women, i’m calling you out to try fighting another man. Your a coward Gary, a pathetic coward"

That is on film and no joke, Gary Ridgway is leaning o far away from Reinheart by the en of the confrontation that he’s half off the chair almost because of Sheriff R getting rite in his face. That is exactly how I see Zodiac being.
But, its an opinion I have that’s all, which is formed on pure speculation.

Z made his outfit for one purpose to invoke fear in his victims. It was a bust for him. He happened to find 2 young people who were students and out of the Bay Area, they hadn’t heard of the cases, or the letters. That would be called the exception to the vast majority of people located in the Bay Area, from Sac to Monterrey and even the Central Valley. When Z sent his 2nd communication out, I think on Aug. 29, 1969, "This is the Zodiac Speaking" every newspaper, TV News Station throughout the Bay Area ran these stories continuously. So the media saturated the 6 million + who lived there at the time. Z was counting on that.
Serial’s have long stated it is the fear factor they invoke that’s their rush. That moment before the killing takes place. That was the purpose of the costume. It didn’t work. Also, Z wasn’t trolling the area dressed in his costume. That would just be dumb on his part. Somehow he had his outfit with him. Cecilia witnessed Z for quite a while and was reporting this to Brian. she never mentions a costume, cause she couldn’t see what he had hidden. He ducks behind the oak in street clothes, and comes out from the Oak in costume. How he did that I’ve often wondered…..

Very good point you bring up there regarding his costume and where it was prior to his decent down the hillside and behind the tree. It would be easy to assume that he simply had it rolled up under his wind-breaker jacket if the costume had consisted of a balaclava sewn to a black cloth that came down over the front with the cross hairs. But it isn’t plausible to suggest he concealed the cereal box shaped hood under his top. Maybe the hood itself was collapsible and could fold back flat when he removed it. Other than that, he must have had his vehicle close by.
And yeah I agree regarding the reaction he had hoped for failing miserably. I would wonder if Zodiac himself was confused by Hartnell’s calm and reserved reaction to him in that costume. Bryan makes it clear why he wasn’t terrorized at the sight of the man in such a menacing looking outfit:

"You know, at the time, it didn’t really strike me because it was just something that a person was putting over themselves so that they wouldn’t be seen. I mean it could have come from a costume shop or a novelty store. The symbolism on it (the cross hairs) didn’t really mean anything, he didn’t identify himself as being ‘Zodiac’."

He then went on to say he believed the man under the hood when he said he just wanted to rob them and take Bryan’s Vehicle.

"As soon as I went to get up he (Zodiac) said ‘Ok, hold on, stay calm. All I want is your money and your car, if everybody stays calm nobody will get hurt’ and I believed him."

I think Bryan, due to his coming from a background where people are decent and honest and can be taken at their word, was a tad too trusting of people and what they say. That isn’t necessarily a bad quality to have.

But it isn’t plausible to suggest he concealed the cereal box shaped hood under his top. Maybe the hood itself was collapsible and could fold back flat when he removed it. Other than that, he must have had his vehicle close by.

The same thought I had as I reading your post, then you wrote it lol. Quite possibly the actual reason then as to why it was the shape it was, as you suggest. So that it could be concealed, flat, beneath a coat. Works for me. Good job fella….sorry, Chappie. Ah, the intricacies of colloquial male references.

*Takes a bow*. Hehe.

It was more than likely a cardboard box of some sort or other that he could collapse and fold flat.

It’s never been the costume that concerns me. I can see that all being collapsible. but it’s the belt with the long knife, the ropes, his pistol, etc. Cecilia initially sees Z over on Mckenzie Point. Between where she sees Z, and where she and Bryan are located, there’s an inlet of water, that is probably 100+ yards long. In other words Z would have to walk on the other side of that inlet, until he reaches where the water ends to be on the same side of land where Bryan and Cecilia are located. At that point he is very close to his car, within a 3 minute walk. so it’s possible he went back up to his car at that point and got his gear, and then came back down. We know from Bryan that it’s a fair amount of time passes, he’s reading a book, and Cecilia is giving him updates on this guy. At one point Brian says it was kind of getting annoying. So Cecilia is rightly concerned, Bryan not so much.

I have felt that Zodiac used the hood itself to act as a carry-all for all that stuff.

I have felt that Zodiac used the hood itself to act as a carry-all for all that stuff.

Too bad Cecelia didn’t recall him carrying a bag or something. He obviously had the hood, etc. with him.

I have felt that Zodiac used the hood itself to act as a carry-all for all that stuff.

Me too. And that he turned it inside out, and that it was orange on the outside with a smiley face on, and he put his knife gun and utility belt into it when it wasn’t on his head.
Trouble is, the other witnesses (the Doctor and his lad?) said their guy had nothing in his hands. Which is a pity. Damn.