Thanks Mike, that sounds about right.

Perhaps Cheri scratched at the back of the guys hands, or his arms or something, rather than at his face, huh?
By the way, where does the "bitch is going to the library" stuff originate, is it from here?
http://www.zodiackiller.com/BatesDNA.html
I mean, I love a good yarn, but she told him "we can’t date any more, I’m marrying this other guy"?, then she called him at the basketball court? (what, on a mobile phone?), he then gave his friends a wonderful in-just-a-few-words "sound bite" to remember later?
Naaaaaa. BS.

Smithy, The hair that I am talking about was believed to be a facial hair, it was the one found under her nail mixed with blood. I am very sure that I read that hair was a hair like from a mustache or beard .Head hair is different , it is easy to tell a hair from an arm , head, face, according to what I have learned.
The phone call at the basketball court wasn’t a well thought out lie, I tend to not believe anything else that person said.
My tolerance for people who lie is very low.

Sandy – ah! I’ve never heard that the hair had been that closely categorised. Darnit, a very good chance at identification went begging, then. Explaining away a scratched face, even if you’re a workman or a painter or what-not, would be much harder than covering up a work-related injury, hmmm?
Re: that pack of lies – yes, I wonder what the motive was? Pointless.

Re: that pack of lies – yes, I wonder what the motive was? Pointless.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was deliberate misinformation to discredit the amateur investigative community. Spread some lies off the record, wait for them to filter through the chatrooms, then show how ridiculous we all are thinking we have any idea about what actually happened. It’s the only thing I can think of that would make any sense, a lying cop is never going to live that down if caught so it seems a silly risk – especially as some of the lies are so big there’s no explaining them away as mistakes.
I don’t know the true extent of how many nutters contact SFPD and RPD every week with theories and ‘information’, but it must really start to get on their nerves once it starts interfering with their current caseload as well. Not excusable, but somewhat understandable that some of those cops will be vindictive enough to take that frustration out on the wider community by doing such a thing.

In the Riverside DNA extracts, it details the hair from the blood clot at the base of her right thumb. This was compared to hair pulled from Cheri Jo Bates’ scalp, to rule her out as the donor from the blood clot. Cheri Jo Bates was covered in blood, literally every garment she wore that night, including her bag. The report only displays a DNA concentration from the base of the thumb, the cigarette butt and Cheri Jo Bates bra. Why does the report only include her bra, to the exclusion of the rest of her clothing. In fact two DNA concentrates were listed under the bloodstains from Cheri Jo Bates bra, DOJ1-A and DOJ1-B.
Had the murderer cut himself and deposited a second identifiable DNA marker. No other clothing was mentioned anywhere in the evidence analysis, and two samples therefore from each item was not mentioned in the report. What was specific about the bra, that this featured throughout and produced 0.075 nanogams per microliter through sample A and 0.0075 nanogams per microliter through sample B. [1] The cigarette butt was collected from the alleyway and therefore may have given us the DNA of the attacker. [2] The mitochondrial DNA used to rule out ‘Bob Barnett’ was collected from the hair at the base of the thumb.
Both of these samples were obvious to collect in terms of possibly harboring the DNA of the murderer. But why [3] The sample taken from the bra of Miss Bates, particularly to the complete exclusion of the rest of her clothing. These were submitted extracts. So my question is, what is the significance of the bra above all the other retrieved blood soaked garments.
The ‘Confession’ letter stated "her breast felt warm." If the ‘Confession’ letter author was the killer, then if he had touched Cheri Jo Bates in a sexual manner, this would suggest he wasn’t wearing gloves. Had this got anything to do with the evidence retrieval.

Excellent analysis as usual Richard, I have read those reports before and I never thought of it from that point of view.
Yes it seems impossible for the assailants blood/DNA to have been deposited on her bra since she was fully clothed, the
only explanation I can think of would be for him to have reached under her blouse to fondle her AFTER the attack, if that
is what happened what a deranged sicko !

Good points Richard.
Is there any evidence to her being kicked as well? Like the confession author claimed?

That’s difficult to say with certainty, but from what I have read in the autopsy I find no evidence that indicates she was kicked in the head as the ‘Confession’ letter suggests. But I’m not a medical examiner!
http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/galler … play_media

The entire attack on Cheri Jo showed the person or persons involved concentrated primarily on her neck/face area, with lacerations to her arms and hands, as would be expected in someone trying to protect themselves. The only three wounds or lacerations on the torso, was a 1.4 cm laceration on the upper medial quadrant of her left breast, a 1.9 cm laceration on the lower medial quadrant of her right breast, and a 1.7 cm laceration in line with the 5th rib, which effectively is the breast area. This suggests the killer was striking in a fairly clinical fashion, unlike the stabbing at Lake Berryessa. This was seemingly a very efficient attack concentrated in the neck region. The lacerations to the chest may have been deflected, or deliberate.
This was a ruthless attack, but was it personal, having been primarily centered above the shoulders.
Had the wounds around the breast area anything to do with Cheri Jo Bates bra being tested, to the apparent exclusion of her other garments ?
If the knife was only 3.5-4 inches in length, then the transfer of blood to the knife would be comprehensive, handle and all. Had he struck or glanced a rib, his hand may easily have slipped on the knife (or the knife may have broke as he claimed), causing a self injury, and transferring blood to Cheri Jo’s clothing. Whether he actually touched her warm breast is debatable, but by proclaiming her breast was warm may have suggested he was glove free. Had he been so, then his injured hand could easily have transferred rich amounts of harvestable DNA onto her bra, hence the focus on this item of clothing, above all others. This probably is incorrect, but the focus on the bra seems perplexing, when her entire clothing could carry vital supplemental forensic evidence.

Thats what I was thinking with the bra, if the confession writer is the killer, we know he touched her breasts, possibly bare handed, and even injured.

Makes sense to me… otherwise I cant think of why the bra would be more important. But with bloody handprints it certainly is.

Good points Richard.
Is there any evidence to her being kicked as well? Like the confession author claimed?

The autopsy report stated "a dark blue-grey slightly swollen discoloration of the upper and lower lips of
the right side involving a 2 cm greatest diameter".

Sounds like a bruise that could be consistent with being kicked in the head/face.

The entire attack on Cheri Jo showed the person or persons involved concentrated primarily on her neck/face area, with lacerations to her arms and hands, as would be expected in someone trying to protect themselves. The only three wounds or lacerations on the torso, was a 1.4 cm laceration on the upper medial quadrant of her left breast, a 1.9 cm laceration on the lower medial quadrant of her right breast, and a 1.7 cm laceration in line with the 5th rib, which effectively is the breast area. This suggests the killer was striking in a fairly clinical fashion, unlike the stabbing at Lake Berryessa. This was seemingly a very efficient attack concentrated in the neck region. The lacerations to the chest may have been deflected, or deliberate.
This was a ruthless attack, but was it personal, having been primarily centered above the shoulders.
Had the wounds around the breast area anything to do with Cheri Jo Bates bra being tested, to the apparent exclusion of her other garments ?
If the knife was only 3.5-4 inches in length, then the transfer of blood to the knife would be comprehensive, handle and all. Had he struck or glanced a rib, his hand may easily have slipped on the knife (or the knife may have broke as he claimed), causing a self injury, and transferring blood to Cheri Jo’s clothing. Whether he actually touched her warm breast is debatable, but by proclaiming her breast was warm may have suggested he was glove free. Had he been so, then his injured hand could easily have transferred rich amounts of harvestable DNA onto her bra, hence the focus on this item of clothing, above all others. This probably is incorrect, but the focus on the bra seems perplexing, when her entire clothing could carry vital supplemental forensic evidence.

Could be that the bra would likely be less contaminated than outside garments.

I

The Zodiac Killer was likely right-handed. According to Bryan Hartnell the gun was holstered on the right side which backs this up. But was the killer of Cheri Jo Bates right-handed also.
If the author of the ‘Confession’ letter was telling the truth, then at some point in the attack the killer "grabbed her round the neck with my hand over her mouth and my other hand with a small knife at her throat. She went very willingly. Her breast felt very warm and firm under my hands, but only one thing was on my mind".
This may be backed up in the autopsy findings, where the majority of the injuries to Cheri Jo Bates hands were on the right side. There may have been a brief attack before he secured Cheri, but if he was right-handed he would have secured the young woman with his left arm from behind, round the left shoulder, with his left hand over her mouth at some point in proceedings. If he was slashing her face and neck with his right hand, then it would be a natural defense response to grab the assailant’s right hand or knife with your right hand, to pull the knife away from your neck, thereby receiving the majority of injuries to this hand. Bringing your left hand around towards the point of the knife would not only certainly incur more injury, but generate little pulling power, to lever or pull an assailant’s right arm from your neck from the opposite side. If the assailant had grabbed her around the shoulder and placed his right hand over her mouth, with knife in left hand, Cheri would naturally have used her left hand to grab the knife or pull on the assailant’s left arm, an action not suited to using your right hand. However the majority of injuries (seen here http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/galler … play_media) were to her right hand, indicating that the killer, if securing her from behind, was likely right-handed.

The use of a small knife in Cheri’s murder dovetails nicely with the RCC desktop poem. Both indicate the murderer was, until the time of the attack, uncertain, in his own mind, as to what he was going to do. Obviously, in tampering with Cheri’s VW, he intended to spend some time with her. But, beforehand, did he consciously intend to kill her? The desktop poem, which I believe was authored by Cheri’s murderer suggests, by being written on the underside of a desk, and signed with the author’s initials, that homicidal thoughts were beginning to surface in the killer-to-be’s mind. As in The Confession, I believe that Cheri and her killer had a history: that he was passionately interested in her. He may well have heard of her recent engagement; or it may be that Cheri, noted by RPD as having "a sharp mouth" may have antagonized him.

What about the cigarette butt? Wouldn’ that have DNA on it? Does anyone know what brand of cigarette this was? Good Job.

Has the BRAND of cigarette butt ever been reported?