I too reserve the right to change my mind.

Its the only real way to go about this. I have hit so much confusion, misinterpretation, and just made up info. I think one also has to be careful with any police report, eye witness, etc. The police took a statement from a witness (who usually aren’t 100% accurate), wrote it in a notebook, and eventually wrote a report.

i agree completely. that’s why i think it’s a fool’s errand to spend time worrying about specifically which route z took in san fran based on police reports, or why trying to figure out the precise timing at lhr is a waste of effort – there are simply too many unverifiable tidbits to put together anything solid. in most cases these side quests about specifics turn into pedantic needle-in-a-haystack challenges that in no way further the effort of discovering the identity of the killer even IF they were based on factual evidence (and mostly they’re not). the more complex these theories become, the shakier their foundation simply because they’re built on things like an interview with a retired police officer thirty years after the crime, in which he says something completely differently than anything he’s said in the past thirty years. you can build a theory on that, but in my opinion not one that’s worth the effort.

i firmly believe the best use of resources would be more looking at the big picture and what it might mean. as an example, in san francisco which street he walked down to get the presidio doesn’t matter (in my opinion) – the fact that he took a cab to that intersection and headed towards the presidio (and wrote enough about it to be believable) DOES matter. he’s planning to kill someone and then escape. there has to be a reason he chose that location, moreso than even lhr, brs, or lb. he had his victim with him so the location in san fran is precisely important. if zodiac wrote the bates letters then he was likely somewhere around riverside in 1966 which is important. if he didn’t write them, then he might not have been. writing experts be damned, the end result is pretty simple. maybe i’m in the minority though.

I think its fair to say z did more planning for stein..san fran is congested…far greater chance of being seen..routes of escspe may have been blocked..on foot was a smart move..take the ferry back to berkley, or whatever hole he called home, far better than leavin a car around the corner

I think he’d want his car. To be in control of the situation would be important to him. Relying on a bus or ferry puts him in their hands and I don’t see him wanting to do that.

I think he’d want his car. To be in control of the situation would be important to him. Relying on a bus or ferry puts him in their hands and I don’t see him wanting to do that.

Especially being covered in blood.

Valid points..but stash clothes in park..change clothes..place clothes in backpack/whatever…slither away into the nite..cops looking for black dude..it was game over at that point..if your an x fanboy he just went home an got the pooch for a stroll..

Valid points..but stash clothes in park..change clothes..place clothes in backpack/whatever…slither away into the nite..cops looking for black dude..it was game over at that point..if your an x fanboy he just went home an got the pooch for a stroll..

He had no idea the dispatcher would misidentify him as being black. Nobody can say for sure, but I’m thinking hopping in a car and heading away in your choice of many directions and destinations is a lot quicker/safer than walking into the park, changing clothes, then strolling away, as the cops are showing up with their scent dogs, etc. And then, if you take a ferry or bus or something, you need to hope there isn’t still blood on your hands, in your hair, or seeping from the backpack where your bloody clothes (and Stine’s shirt piece) are hidden, and so on.

As someone else has mentioned on these boards, firing that gun into Paul’s head from such close range, inside a vehicle, would’ve sent blood splattering all over the place. And then Z gets into the front seat with him (or, he started in the front seat, but either way…) Unless he could take a shower, he wouldn’t have wanted to be walking around in public in well-lit areas with the inevitable remnants of that mess on him.

Once Foulke heard that the guy he’d seen was likely Z, he rushed back to that place. Under your scenario, Z would’ve been behind a tree, changing clothes. As I said, nobody knows for sure, but I’m not seeing it.

Only devils advocate on my part..i dunno either..x went home or gaik strolled back to good times..we dont know how much blood was on z..speculation only there..z did not need to know about the bogus suspect description..but luck again seems to have been with him..now back to cjb

Typically forward blood splatter is a fine mist..its possible z did not have much blood on him (its dark out what would the cops have even seen?)..more useless conjwecture on my part

He had no idea the dispatcher would misidentify him as being black. .

If we’re talking preplanned strategy here, the whole dispatcher business (the whole cop business as such, for that matter) isn’t really relevant. He obviously didn’t plan on getting spotted by the teen witnesses.

Nor did he plan on shooting Stine in a fashion which would leave him all bloody (if that’s what he was – we don’t know exactly how bloody he would have been).

Some believe Z observed the teens as he exited the cab – but there’s no hard evidence of this.

He walks away calmly. At some point close to the Jackson/Cherry intersection he hears sirens – but it’s only then and not before that he realizes something has happened which might possibly interfere with his plan.

I’m not saying I buy the on-foot/ferry scenario, but it’s important to keep in mind that what happened that night from Z’s point of view is radically different from what we see now, with the benefit of hindsight: He was operating within a dangerously small window, was all bloody, was strangely calm…and so on.

Not so from his perspective. He had no idea the cops were that close on his trail when he left the cab – and he may not have been dripping with blood either (that remains speculation).

BTW, this is getting more and more off topic – so perhaps it would be best to continue it elsewhere. New "on foot versus car" topic, perhaps – or something. It certainly isn’t about Bates and the FBI anymore, that’s for sure

BTW, this is getting more and more off topic

At first thought I thought the same thing, but maybe that is the point. They are so dichotomous at first glance, it would be, in fact, the similarities that could lead to a better view of Z. We have to agree they are the most odd ones, with the possible exclusion of KJ who wasn’t killed.

Z’s crimes to an average person would seem so discordant at first glance, nothing would link them. The letters, thats the link. Now we need to link the behavior that was also the same, or of the same origin, even if with a different outcome or seemingly different motive.

-m

BTW, this is getting more and more off topic

At first thought I thought the same thing, but maybe that is the point. They are so dichotomous at first glance, it would be, in fact, the similarities that could lead to a better view of Z. We have to agree they are the most odd ones, with the possible exclusion of KJ who wasn’t killed.

Z’s crimes to an average person would seem so discordant at first glance, nothing would link them. The letters, thats the link. Now we need to link the behavior that was also the same, or of the same origin, even if with a different outcome or seemingly different motive.

-m

Or, it’s the letters that provide fake links and have been part of what has mucked up this case for almost 50 years.

BTW, this is getting more and more off topic

At first thought I thought the same thing, but maybe that is the point. They are so dichotomous at first glance, it would be, in fact, the similarities that could lead to a better view of Z. We have to agree they are the most odd ones, with the possible exclusion of KJ who wasn’t killed.

Z’s crimes to an average person would seem so discordant at first glance, nothing would link them. The letters, thats the link. Now we need to link the behavior that was also the same, or of the same origin, even if with a different outcome or seemingly different motive.

-m

Or, it’s the letters that provide fake links and have been part of what has mucked up this case for almost 50 years.

^^^^^^yep.

Its a possibility that the letters and poem are either fakes, not written by Z, or they are real and didn’t muck the case up.

I found the thread reference to the posting on another board about Mikado references in the Confession letter and the desktop poem. http://zodiackiller.fr.yuku.com/topic/3 … alHemDG5E4

There are also posts in that thread that said he misspelled "twich" as such in the confession letter, and the same way in some later letter (see page 3 of thread). The possibility she was nearly beheaded, as the Executioner did in the Mikado, and a post about her autopsy saying she was almost beheaded, page 10 in thread.

There is also some good info on the desktop poem handwriting analysis. I would question if some of the differences people are using to exclude it could not have been cause by slippages/distortions from the grain of the wood.

Its a possibility that the letters and poem are either fakes, not written by Z, or they are real and didn’t muck the case up.

I found the thread reference to the posting on another board about Mikado references in the Confession letter and the desktop poem. http://zodiackiller.fr.yuku.com/topic/3 … alHemDG5E4

There are also posts in that thread that said he misspelled "twich" as such in the confession letter, and the same way in some later letter (see page 3 of thread). The possibility she was nearly beheaded, as the Executioner did in the Mikado, and a post about her autopsy saying she was almost beheaded, page 10 in thread.

There is also some good info on the desktop poem handwriting analysis. I would question if some of the differences people are using to exclude it could not have been cause by slippages/distortions from the grain of the wood.

fyi – she wasn’t almost beheaded.

fyi – she wasn’t almost beheaded.

I guess it all depends on your definition of almost beheading (a phrase used in the other message board), but she had 7 deep lacerations to her neck and was the most likely cause of death. See autopsy report here:
http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/galler … =90&page=1

The killer’s knives maybe couldn’t go much further through, I am simply pointing out a possible connection if he viewed himself Executioner.