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Profiling the Bates Killer

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(@mike_r)
Posts: 838
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

I was going over some notes I made several years ago on a conversation I had with profiler Richard Walter. I had forgotten how on board he was with the notion that the Bates murder was a Power-Reassurance to Anger-Retaliatory profiling jump. The killer didn’t start out that night with the intent to kill Bates. Rather, he had likely held fantasies about her being his girlfriend but was too awkward, socially inept, bookish and shy to approach her. So he devises a plan. He disables her car and waits for the correct moment to make his approach. He wants to be her knight in shining armor and succeeds in gaining her trust and getting her to walk with him in the dark. There, he professes his love for her and she tells him in no uncertain terms to get lost. His fantasies shattered, he boils over with anger and in order to save face, he has to kill her. I wonder if at that moment she realizes that her whole car thing had been a ruse. Like a typical AR, he ends the attack by rolling her over onto her face, so she cannot accuse him. Maybe he felt guilty for a while after killing her but ultimately, he decides she deserved it, thus rationalizing the crime in his own mind.

Mr. Walter made it very clear that it would be highly unusual for a Power-Assertive killer like Zodiac to commit a crime like this or for a PA to become an AR. Thus, since Zodiac was a PA, he is very unlikely to have murdered Bates in such a personal way and then become the impersonal assassin type murderer he was in NorCal. (LB was the exception, NOT the rule up North.)

Mike

Mike Rodelli

Author, The Hunt for Zodiac; 3.9 stars on Amazon and
In The Shadow of Mt. Diablo: The Shocking True Identity of the Zodiac Killer, a second edition in print format. 4.3 Amazon stars and great Editorial reviews. Twitter:@mikerodelli

 
Posted : April 2, 2021 12:00 am
(@son_of_paul)
Posts: 13
Active Member
 

Do you know if this profile was ever produced in written form and if it was whether it was published somewhere?

 
Posted : May 1, 2021 6:41 pm
mrsean
(@mrsean)
Posts: 80
Estimable Member
 

Do you know if this profile was ever produced in written form and if it was whether it was published somewhere?

Mike Rodelli discusses this in detail in his book "The Hunt for Zodiac…" including "Chapter 12: Redefining the Zodiac Killer: Behavioral Profiling". It includes extensive discussion on profiling with forensic psychologist Richard Walter, co-founder of the Vidocq Society. This is well worth reading, especially for its insight into non-traditional behavioral profiling. The Zodiac Killer was also profiled by John Douglas in the book "The Cases That Haunt Us".

"Pure mathematics is, in its way, the poetry of logical ideas." Albert Einstein

 
Posted : May 2, 2021 4:36 am
(@theforeigner)
Posts: 821
Prominent Member
 

I was going over some notes I made several years ago on a conversation I had with profiler Richard Walter. I had forgotten how on board he was with the notion that the Bates murder was a Power-Reassurance to Anger-Retaliatory profiling jump. The killer didn’t start out that night with the intent to kill Bates. Rather, he had likely held fantasies about her being his girlfriend but was too awkward, socially inept, bookish and shy to approach her. So he devises a plan. He disables her car and waits for the correct moment to make his approach. He wants to be her knight in shining armor and succeeds in gaining her trust and getting her to walk with him in the dark. There, he professes his love for her and she tells him in no uncertain terms to get lost. His fantasies shattered, he boils over with anger and in order to save face, he has to kill her. I wonder if at that moment she realizes that her whole car thing had been a ruse. Like a typical AR, he ends the attack by rolling her over onto her face, so she cannot accuse him. Maybe he felt guilty for a while after killing her but ultimately, he decides she deserved it, thus rationalizing the crime in his own mind.

Mr. Walter made it very clear that it would be highly unusual for a Power-Assertive killer like Zodiac to commit a crime like this or for a PA to become an AR. Thus, since Zodiac was a PA, he is very unlikely to have murdered Bates in such a personal way and then become the impersonal assassin type murderer he was in NorCal. (LB was the exception, NOT the rule up North.)

Mike

Hi Mike

What did Richard Walter say about the Bates killer, Zodiac ?, sending these 4 letters ;

1…November 29, 1966, exactly 30 days after the murder; "The Confession letter "

2………April 30, 1967, exactly 6 months after the murder; The 3 "Bates had to die there will be more" letters to media, police and to Cheri Jo Bate’s father.

And to this…

CJB’s murder and letters connection to DAYLIGHT SAVING TIME:

Cheri Joe Bates murder committed : Oct 30, 1966 …1966 Daylight Saving Time ends

The "Bates had to die" letter’s sent : Apr 30, 1967 …1967 Daylight Saving Time starts

This killer seems to have a thing about TIME anniversaries/systems/patterns!

Hi, english is not my first language so please bear with me :)

 
Posted : May 3, 2021 3:12 am
(@monarch)
Posts: 433
Reputable Member
 

I was going over some notes I made several years ago on a conversation I had with profiler Richard Walter. I had forgotten how on board he was with the notion that the Bates murder was a Power-Reassurance to Anger-Retaliatory profiling jump. The killer didn’t start out that night with the intent to kill Bates. Rather, he had likely held fantasies about her being his girlfriend but was too awkward, socially inept, bookish and shy to approach her. So he devises a plan. He disables her car and waits for the correct moment to make his approach. He wants to be her knight in shining armor and succeeds in gaining her trust and getting her to walk with him in the dark. There, he professes his love for her and she tells him in no uncertain terms to get lost. His fantasies shattered, he boils over with anger and in order to save face, he has to kill her. I wonder if at that moment she realizes that her whole car thing had been a ruse. Like a typical AR, he ends the attack by rolling her over onto her face, so she cannot accuse him. Maybe he felt guilty for a while after killing her but ultimately, he decides she deserved it, thus rationalizing the crime in his own mind.

Mr. Walter made it very clear that it would be highly unusual for a Power-Assertive killer like Zodiac to commit a crime like this or for a PA to become an AR. Thus, since Zodiac was a PA, he is very unlikely to have murdered Bates in such a personal way and then become the impersonal assassin type murderer he was in NorCal. (LB was the exception, NOT the rule up North.)

Mike

Hi Mike

What did Richard Walter say about the Bates killer, Zodiac ?, sending these 4 letters ;

1…November 29, 1966, exactly 30 days after the murder; "The Confession letter "

2………April 30, 1967, exactly 6 months after the murder; The 3 "Bates had to die there will be more" letters to media, police and to Cheri Jo Bate’s father.

And to this…

CJB’s murder and letters connection to DAYLIGHT SAVING TIME:

Cheri Joe Bates murder committed : Oct 30, 1966 …1966 Daylight Saving Time ends

The "Bates had to die" letter’s sent : Apr 30, 1967 …1967 Daylight Saving Time starts

This killer seems to have a thing about TIME anniversaries/systems/patterns!

Great observations Foreigner, very interesting !

Very unlikely to be a coincidence !

 
Posted : May 3, 2021 5:39 am
(@son_of_paul)
Posts: 13
Active Member
 

Do you know if this profile was ever produced in written form and if it was whether it was published somewhere?

Mike Rodelli discusses this in detail in his book "The Hunt for Zodiac…" including "Chapter 12: Redefining the Zodiac Killer: Behavioral Profiling". It includes extensive discussion on profiling with forensic psychologist Richard Walter, co-founder of the Vidocq Society. This is well worth reading, especially for its insight into non-traditional behavioral profiling. The Zodiac Killer was also profiled by John Douglas in the book "The Cases That Haunt Us".

Thank you, super helpful.

 
Posted : May 7, 2021 5:52 am
mrsean
(@mrsean)
Posts: 80
Estimable Member
 

Do you know if this profile was ever produced in written form and if it was whether it was published somewhere?

Mike Rodelli discusses this in detail in his book "The Hunt for Zodiac…" including "Chapter 12: Redefining the Zodiac Killer: Behavioral Profiling". It includes extensive discussion on profiling with forensic psychologist Richard Walter, co-founder of the Vidocq Society. This is well worth reading, especially for its insight into non-traditional behavioral profiling. The Zodiac Killer was also profiled by John Douglas in the book "The Cases That Haunt Us".

Thank you, super helpful.

You’re welcome. If and when you do happen to read Mike’s book, please share your thoughts.

"Pure mathematics is, in its way, the poetry of logical ideas." Albert Einstein

 
Posted : May 7, 2021 6:29 am
(@mike_r)
Posts: 838
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

Hi,

Richard Walter famously does not write out or publish his profiles. The published version of the profile IS my book.

Mike Rodelli

Author, The Hunt for Zodiac; 3.9 stars on Amazon and
In The Shadow of Mt. Diablo: The Shocking True Identity of the Zodiac Killer, a second edition in print format. 4.3 Amazon stars and great Editorial reviews. Twitter:@mikerodelli

 
Posted : May 14, 2021 4:11 am
(@theforeigner)
Posts: 821
Prominent Member
 

Hi,

Richard Walter famously does not write out or publish his profiles. The published version of the profile IS my book.

Hi Mike, did you read my post from Sun May 02, 2021 6:12 pm ?

I would appreciate your thoughts/comment on that post, here is a copy of my post:

Hi Mike

What did Richard Walter (added May14; and/or yourself) say about the Bates killer, Zodiac ?, sending these 4 letters ;

1…November 29, 1966, exactly 30 days after the murder; "The Confession letter "

2………April 30, 1967, exactly 6 months after the murder; The 3 "Bates had to die there will be more" letters to media, police and to Cheri Jo Bate’s father.

And to this…

CJB’s murder and letters connection to DAYLIGHT SAVING TIME:

Cheri Joe Bates murder committed : Oct 30, 1966 …1966 Daylight Saving Time ends

The "Bates had to die" letter’s sent : Apr 30, 1967 …1967 Daylight Saving Time starts

This killer seems to have a thing about TIME anniversaries/systems/patterns!

Hi, english is not my first language so please bear with me :)

 
Posted : May 14, 2021 3:14 pm
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