There’s a pretty interesting analysis of this symbol on crack-proof.com

They claim it’s shorthand. They also claim that there are shorthand squiggles on the Little List letter, with references to Leona Roberts and Pat Tan. All in all a well-researched and well-referenced site, even if you don’t agree with their conclusions.

There’s a pretty interesting analysis of this symbol on crack-proof.com

They claim it’s shorthand. They also claim that there are shorthand squiggles on the Little List letter, with references to Leona Roberts and Pat Tan. All in all a well-researched and well-referenced site, even if you don’t agree with their conclusions.

Yes, it’s an interesting theory – and I agree that it’s well researched (and presented).

I don’t agree with some of the conclusions, but the part about shorthand as such, and the idea that Z knew shorthand, is very interesting.

Now, about the notes and the possible “Z” signature: Alright, let’s say it’s a Z, then. Presumably that stands for Zodiac, yes? Not Zeus…or Zorro. Well, if it was Z and he had already started to use this moniker, albeit only in the form of an initial (but he certainly must have thought of himself as Zodiac), how do we explain this:

He strikes at LHR without identifying himself. In spite of being an established post-murder letter writer, so to speak. He waits six months, then strikes again. This time he does identify himself, but not as Zodiac. He signs the BRS letter with a symbol which we – now – associate primarily with “Zodiac”, but not many people would have done that back then. And if they did, it would’ve been because they recognized it as the symbol used by a watch manufacturer. Most would have thought it was a gun sight, however. He doesn’t call himself Zodiac, not even in the cipher (which would have been a nice touch, I’d say).

The so-called “debut of Zodiac” letter is…well, his debut in published form under that name. But if the Bates notes assumption is correct, he was Zodiac all along – just for some reason opted not to properly introduce himself.

Uses a “Z” to sign the Bates notes (no symbol), uses the symbol (but no name, nor initial) for the BRS letter – and then, finally, uses both the symbol and the name in the “debut” letter. What sort of progress or development is this – and does it make sense?

the Bates family letter being three straight lines with a squiggle off to the side makes it hard for me to accept that the author intended to give us anything like a 2, but it’s not impossible.

But the idea that I’m just "seeing" a Z because I want to, or have Z on the brain? The Z shape of it is hardly subtle, especially in the bates family letter.

You aren’t imagining anything. The majority of people agree it’s a ‘z" that has been embellished a bit to make it into a unique symbol. Unique being the keyword. Like Prince had a symbol he made up so also did he author of this letter. Omg Prince is the zodiac!

Perhaps the adoption of the cross circle coming after the embellished Z was because he didn’t like his original symbol of the embellished Z, but liked his Cross Circle better as far as a symbol goes? Most likely he was considering adding a zodiac element to his Z according to whatever sign he murdered under, but again he decided to throw out this idea and opt for the watch/zodiac wheel instead. It could have simply been because he did not like the way the embellished Z symbols looked or felt they might be too ambiguous. IMO He knows that he needed a name people could say (this is important to him) as a symbol would be too ambiguous which is why he needed to refer to himself as "The Zodiac" – he wanted an identity people could talk/write about. It’s difficult to reference a symbol in conversation so a word is needed.

… IMO He knows that he needed a name people could say (this is important to him) as a symbol would be too ambiguous which is why he needed to refer to himself as "The Zodiac" – he wanted an identity people could talk/write about. It’s difficult to reference a symbol in conversation so a word is needed.

This is EXACTLY why (imo) he had not given himself the name "Zodiac" prior to his introduction letter. He probably hadn’t even thought of naming himself or he would have done it in his first letters.

I think when the newspapers starting calling him "Cipher Slayer", he started thinking of his name…and he came up with Zodiac.

… IMO He knows that he needed a name people could say (this is important to him) as a symbol would be too ambiguous which is why he needed to refer to himself as "The Zodiac" – he wanted an identity people could talk/write about. It’s difficult to reference a symbol in conversation so a word is needed.

This is EXACTLY why (imo) he had not given himself the name "Zodiac" prior to his introduction letter. He probably hadn’t even thought of naming himself or he would have done it in his first letters.

I think when the newspapers starting calling him "Cipher Slayer", he started thinking of his name…and he came up with Zodiac.

Let’s say for just a second that Z wrote the Bates letters,and the little symbols are Z,wouldn’t it be more likely that the Z stands for Zodiac? If he was the Author,why sign the letters with a Z? I personally think it’s possible that Zodiac,whomever he was,stole his persona from ‘Zode’ in San Bernardino. which is right next to Riverside. The Guy admitted that in 1963-1965, he called himself Zodiac, and was witnessed to say "this is the Zodiac speaking". What are the chances of that exact line later being used by Z?

The Guy admitted that in 1963-1965, he called himself Zodiac, and was witnessed to say "this is the Zodiac speaking". What are the chances of that exact line later being used by Z?

Pretty slim, I’d say.

If Zode used that exact phrase *, chances are there’s a connection. Either Zode was Z (seems unlikely) or Z went to school with Zode.

* How well documented is this?

The Guy admitted that in 1963-1965, he called himself Zodiac, and was witnessed to say "this is the Zodiac speaking". What are the chances of that exact line later being used by Z?

Pretty slim, I’d say.

If Zode used that exact phrase *, chances are there’s a connection. Either Zode was Z (seems unlikely) or Z went to school with Zode.

* How well documented is this?

The part about calling himself Z, is a fact. He told me himself. I have a photo of a yearbook signature from him. The part about using the line ‘this is the zodiac speaking’ was witnessed by at least two different people, including a Member here,and there’s a segment on the net about it.

The Zode connection is definitely of interest. And yes San Bernardino is very close to Riverside (my fart knocker of an older brother was born there). Funny enough I was discussing with my significant other about all the crazy transients around here (land of fruit and NUTS) and where they get sent and we both could only think of the San Bernardino/Patton hospital. I could see a kook running across Zode somewhere there in San Bernardino and thinking "what a clever catch phrase and moniker". Maybe he even went to school with Zode yes. Gonna study up more on Zode now. Great connection Morf!

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=72&p=34099&hilit=Zode#p34099

P.s. Another example of Zodiac using a "Z" symbol to represent himself later In the Halloween card.

(Begs the question what his other symbol representing him to the very left was, but that’s for another thread)

P.s. Another example of Zodiac using a "Z" symbol to represent himself later In the Halloween card.

(Begs the question what his other symbol representing him to the very left was, but that’s for another thread)

There are threads about that symbol on this site

Well I’m just bringing it up to further support my theory that we were discussing before Zode about how Zodiac originally considered using a Z as his symbol in the Bates letters. The Z on the Halloween card is another example of him representing himself as a "Z". Additionally the symbol to the left can then be left to the supposition that it too represents his name "Zodiac".

It’s a long Z with an angular C on the right end. The O,D, I, and A missing are represented by the 4 dots in the middle. It’s that simple. Just another symbol to represent his name, his signature. Just following his line of thinking with the symbols on cards revealing his evolution from Bates letter signature to later signatures as Z.

If my theory is correct that the symbol has a C on the right end, then it follows Z’s style on the Bates letter with something added to Z’s end, too. The Bates letter Z looks like a Scorpions stinger and the Halloween Z looks like an angular scorpion with four dots representing legs/feet (draw lines from dots to the Z and it makes little legs how bout that!) and the C representing the claws IMO. Bates was killed under the sign of Scorpio Oct 30. Halloween card falls under the sign of Scorpio.

P.s. Leaving dots to represent the number of missing letters is commonly used in Epigraphic texts
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigraphy

https://books.google.com/books?id=cqjrz … rs&f=false

The Guy admitted that in 1963-1965, he called himself Zodiac, and was witnessed to say "this is the Zodiac speaking". What are the chances of that exact line later being used by Z?

Pretty slim, I’d say.

If Zode used that exact phrase *, chances are there’s a connection. Either Zode was Z (seems unlikely) or Z went to school with Zode.

* How well documented is this?

The part about calling himself Z, is a fact. He told me himself. I have a photo of a yearbook signature from him. The part about using the line ‘this is the zodiac speaking’ was witnessed by at least two different people, including a Member here,and there’s a segment on the net about it.

Maybe he just made it up, like Goldcatcher conjuring nonsense about Richard Gaikowski, and certain people claiming they were stalked by the Zodiac back in 1968/69.

People lie. They exaggerate. They hallucinate. They’re often delusional. They like to make up things about themselves so they look more important than they are.

Just because so and so said such and such doesn’t mean it’s true.

Regardless, if "Zode" claimed such a thing, and there’s no reason to think he’s The Zodiac, then the only logical conclusion is that he’s lying and/or mentally unsound.

Sorry.

Oh, and in anticipation of your reply: perhaps a number of people did in fact offer testimony buttressing "Zode’s" claims, but then…plenty of people said Bob Barnett acted in a highly-incriminating manner in and around the time Cheri Jo Bates was killed, and we know how that turned out.

Yep, you have a point.

People do lie. And people suffer from faulty and/or selective memory too. And people do indeed like to feel important. And sometimes people are a bit nuts.

So, yes. Caution is the word, I think.

Well I guess no one gives a hoot that I figured out what that symbol is that people have been superimposing over maps, streets, and probably even septic systems since 1970. It helps show a connection Z was involved in Bates. (pats self on back while everyone just keeps on talking.). Pinky don’t know nothin.

Well I guess no one gives a hoot that I figured out what that symbol is that people have been superimposing over maps, streets, and probably even septic systems since 1970. It helps show a connection Z was involved in Bates. (pats self on back while everyone just keeps on talking.). Pinky don’t know nothin.

Unfortunately there are hundreds of ideas of what that symbol means.