smithy, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:02 pm

….One was from Great Britain-Liverpool.

You just can’t trust those Scousers!
Overall, not "provocative" so much as very thought-provoking stuff, H.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:50 pm

T., I don’t think you need fear your popularity will decline! I’d like to see the negatives and your opinions are good, which is why I ask.
I’ll go have a look myself – although this search thing’s still too clever for me even after reading the Trav materials. :clown:

For me, as far as the Confession letter, it’s just the over-all tone of it. I think it was written by someone who had issues with women. I never sensed that with Zodiac.

This person writing about her breast and how it felt warm? Very much not Zodiac like.

It’s typed.

While yes, there are obvious similarities, I find strong dissimilarites as well. And since I don’t think Zodiac murdered her, I don’t think he typed the Confession letter.

–I’d lean more to someone from her church. Confessing, went to the slaughter like a lamb….. Maybe Cheri announced she was engaged and someone didn’t like that.

smithy, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:01 pm

I think it was written by someone who had issues with women. I never sensed that with Zodiac.
This person writing about her breast and how it felt warm? Very much not Zodiac-like.

I agree. That certainly does sound very focussed toward women, no doubt. Nope, it’s not very much like our boy.
That prissy, odd, meant-to-be-really-scary "female parts all over the city" thing too. Highly unlike the later style and tone.

The police held back "Getting your rocks off" from being published because they thought that revealed the 408 cipher writer as being an older man – something which has a context we’ve lost in the 40+ years that have passed. I thought it sounded very 60’s!!
How old do you think the person who wrote the Confession letter was?

morf13, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:24 pm

I personally find the fact that two separate people writing anonymous taunting letters in the Bates case is hard to swallow, so for me, the confession and the other letters, were all likely written by the same person. Add to that the same spelling errors in the confession letter that Zodiac would later use (Twich/Twitch ), the desktop poem, the fact that Sherwood Morrill said the Bates writing matched Zodiac, and lastly, the possibility that Cheri’s killer called the police after her murder, as Zodiac also did, and its all pretty clear. In my opinion, Zodiac was in Riverside in 66-67, and wrote all of the letters and possibly killed Bates, and then he moved to the SF bay area by Dec 1968

Nachtsider, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:26 am

The police held back "Getting your rocks off" from being published because they thought that revealed the 408 cipher writer as being an older man – something which has a context we’ve lost in the 40+ years that have passed. I thought it sounded very 60’s!!

Indeed it did. How they gleaned ‘older man’ from the phrase is utterly beyond me. The responsible sounds every bit a young guy, probably thirty at the oldest.

How old do you think the person who wrote the Confession letter was?

My guess would be between twenty and thirty.

smithy, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:19 am

Morf – it’s good you’re firmly committed on the subject and I’m not in any doubt either if I’m honest. The Riverside letter was an experiment in how to hook your audience I think – and the later approach a refinement. Whoever wrote the Confession Letter learned a lot from the experience – and was a lot more punchy in ’69. "Just the facts". Perhaps he studied a lot more news stories in the interval, maybe even a lot more letters and writing styles too.

Nacht – how the hell have you been?

I’ve been speculating for a while, and I’ve got these things to try and balance. (And lots more of course.)

1) Perhaps he assumed that phrase to fit a short format – the cipher. (But he might have said "better than sex".)
2) Is the way he talks about women in The Confession letter him trying to sound tough? Talk tough? Grown up?
3) He shows the experience of a quite talented writer (in my humble opinion.) Older. Or young and talented. Well-practised.
4) What’s a younger guy doing listening to the Groucho Marx version of The Mikado (1959 Television cast recording)? His Dad’s copy?

I’m with you, under 30. Maybe even younger. He sounds very naive in 1966, to me. And he’s got a very strange sense of humour – almost adolescent.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:51 am

I’m with Nacht in regards to age.

In regards to him listening to the Mikado, I think we can say he only listened. He didn’t know the words. So a record album would make sense. Could have been Mom & Pops.

For you Smithy:

So you think Zodiac wrote the Confession letter (as well as the others in ’66), but did not kill Cheri?

smithy, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:32 pm

For you Smithy:
So you think Zodiac wrote the Confession letter (as well as the others in ’66), but did not kill Cheri?

For me? Well OK then! Today – yes, I think that’s it.

I like your observations about the quality of the language and the perspective, and I think they incorporate quite well into the idea of a "developing MO" if you like, in the life of the writer’s art. (For want of a better expression.) I think he grew up quite a lot after ’66. Now I want every news library in the West coast turned over for letters which came in after major crimes – especially those that went out on AP wire State-wide. I also want all PD’s in California to turn out their cupboards for letters, to prove it.
Which ain’t gonna happen any day soon.

I’ve been listening to that record of the Mikado today btw – we absolutely all need a copy.

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:44 pm

June 1968 Michigan Husband Wife Children killed letter sent in by ZODIUS. I think it is under Zodiac Theories on this board. Robison Family.

smithy, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:19 pm

I’ll stick with California I think AK, but it just goes to show – nothing new in writing in about a crime eh?
How have we all resisted the temptation so long?

tahoe27, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:32 pm

Still confused Smithy. Do you think Zodiac killed Cheri?

morf13, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:41 pm

I think z may have written other letters in other cases and also likely wrote newspApers using his real name

StitchMallone, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:55 pm

I think z may have written other letters in other cases and also likely wrote newspApers using his real name

Lot of the high profile cases makes you wonder with the similar writing like The Jack Ruby letter, Atlanta Child and DB Cooper and etc. I also agree and think Z has written to the Chronicle in the past using his real name. I think Ed Neil and Mike R was on the right track not sure right guy though.

bruce3, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:09 pm

This Confession is the result of, I believe, young Z seeing a female he liked. She gave me the ‘brush off’ which means he wanted to talk to her due to the fact he liked her.’She was THEN very willing to talk’ to me.That is,only when she was in trouble.He mentions her beauty and youth but now as he wrote she is dead. This means at first he was attracted to both her beauty and youth.
He picked the wrong female and she rejected him.
In the mental eval’ RSPD requested it indicates the slightest rejection would be overblown in his mind and emotions and he would in rage attack.

Some three years later we find his anger and rage expanding to the OBJECT of a females affection her boyfriend,or male companion,hence,LHR,BRS,LB. Jealousy towards the male(and if the male represented his father as symbolic then we have that in his subconscious)who could attract and hold a female’s affections,etc.
But,with KJ this was a return to a single female victim and in some ways and certain elements was a replay of RS ’66.
I do believe this RS letter and attack of a single female was somewhat of a MO ‘blip’ for our young Z as in 1963 I firmly believe he attacked a young COUPLE in SB.But,I also believe he killed Nikki Benedict-a single female- in Poway,CA 5/1/67.

We can’t rule out this Confession based on his focus of a single female.We know he favored killing couples the ones we KNOW about,but it is believed and Z said so in a letter he attacked a single female in CC.
Lass was a single female abduction and Z claimed her. How many other single females we don’t know about?

He killed a LONE male in PH! Do we say he had problems with men?

Z would change from time to time. He was in charge he decided when and what to change. He sent letters then sometimes cards,etc.

So the letter was typed,but the envelope had felt tip pen(!) lettering very,very much like Zs! Morrell State Examiner of Questioned Documents confirmed this -not a non experienced poster!!!

He switched to handwriting so? Maybe he didn’t like placing 13 carbons in an attempt to disguise the typewriters model,etc.,to do one letter!

Anti detection books favored hand printing or script not one’s own and gave various tracing methods using mirrors,light,etc.,even wrapping a thick rag or a glove around one’s hand so when writing without this cloth ones writing would be ‘different’ when writing without it as the tendons and muscles would operate or function differently giving a different appearance to the writing.
Just like Z instead of favoring gloves he liked glue over his finger tips.He no doubt thought these kinds of ruses were more ‘clever’ than using a machine to write or to touch objects without leaving prints,etc.
One can ‘change’ things in three years! Even a killer!

tahoe27, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:22 pm

Lass was a single female abduction and Z claimed her.

No he didn’t. There was never any mention of Donna Lass by Zodiac.

It’s everyone else assuming, as it is with many other cases.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:33 pm

So the letter was typed,but the envelope had felt tip pen(!) lettering very,very much like Zs! Morrell State Examiner of Questioned Documents confirmed this -not a non experienced poster!!!

I am stating my opinion and every time I do this you throw in my "non-experience" as a handwriting expert.

I’m not here to convince anyone of anything. It’s MY take on it and I was asked for my opinion so I gave it.

StitchMallone, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:44 pm

Just want to add not a knock on Mike Rodelli’s Mr.X and find him intriguing and honestly can’t rule him out as Zodiac. I know his real name and have look into him in the past, I don’t think he is Zodiac but can see why Mike likes him as a POI and commend Mike on his hard work. My point is I believe Zodiac did contact the Chronicle with letters to editor and think him and Ed was on the right track.

entropy, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:22 am

Here’s my two cents worth of observations. Forgive me that some of them have already been mentioned. Let’s first consider some pros and cons of the Confession letter being written by Zodiac:

PROS:

1. The spelling mistakes are entirely consistent with Zodiac’s spelling tendencies and phonetic mistakes:
– TWICHED (exactly as used by Z in the Little List letter but common enough, I suppose, to be coincidental)
– CHOAKED
– MINUTS
– BROWNETT

2. The improper use of conjunctions that bruce3 alluded to, which is a consistent hallmark of Zodiac letters:

"But she is battered and dead."
"Or maybe she will be the shapely blue eyed brownett…"
"But I shall cut off her female parts…"

3. The apparent taunting to offer his identity. The letter writer’s inclusion of "BY_____________" serves absolutely no purpose except to entice the
reader to guess the letter writer’s identity. To me, this is very reminiscent of Zodiac offering to reveal his name via cipher ("My name is —") and even the Halloween card ("I can feel it in my bones you ache to know my name or so I’ll clue you in…").

4. The threatening of society as a whole in addition to potential victims:
"BEWARE I AM STALKING YOUR GIRLS NOW"
"KEEP YOUR SISTERS, DAUGHTERS AND WIVES OFF THE STREETS AND ALLEYS"

Zodiac increasingly seemed to focus on threatening society and the public at large by (probably empty) threats of blowing up school children, escalating body counts etc.

5. The request for the letter to be published in the newspaper- "THIS LETTER SHOULD BE PUBLISHED FOR ALL TO READ IT".

6. The attempts to verify his involvement in the crime, which Zodiac did in detail in early letters. In this case, the question becomes whether the letter writer really offered anything that couldn’t be gleaned from the media or other sources.

CONS:

1. It’s typewritten while Zodiac always handprinted his communications.

2. Calling the victim by name and describing her as "young and beautiful". Zodiac never referred to a victim by name in his letters and seemed unconcerned about their personal attributes other than whatever was needed to claim responsibility. The letter writer refers to Cheri Jo as "Miss Bates". To Zodiac, his victims were always "that girl" or "the cabbie" and it’s hard to imagine him referring to a victim as "beautiful". Even when referring to his involvement with the Bates case, he described it only as "my Riverside activity".

3. The overt sexual motivation the letter-writer ascribes to himself and the attack of CJB:
"I SHALL CUT OFF HER FEMALE PARTS…"
"HER BREAST FELT VERY WARM AND FIRM UNDER MY HANDS"

Zodiac’s only hint of overt sexuality (which was only expressed hidden in a cipher solution) was by no means any expression of overt sexual motivation-"KILLING IS MORE FUN THAN GETTING YOUR ROCKS OFF WITH A GIRL". He never demonstrated any inclination to sexually abuse or rape his female victims even when he likely had the opportunity to do so such as at Lake Berryessa. Does sexual mutilation and spreading around body parts sound like Zodiac?

To me, there just seems something disingenuous about this letter that’s hard to place. It seems like the writer tries to present himself as both an adolescent stalker AND random serial killer intent on terrorizing the community. I’ve always been on the fence with the Riverside connection but I think it’s hard to ignore the pros in this letter alone. Along with the Bates letter, mailed in 3 parts, and somehow confirmed as a handwriting match, I think it’s very likely that Zodiac is the letter writer for all of the Riverside communications (excluding the Desk poem and Hautz letter, which are crappy evidence, IMHO). Unless Zodiac underwent some sort of radical transformation in the following two years, however, I tend to think that the motivations expressed in the Confession letter are probably disingenuous, which leads me to further believe that Zodiac probably wasn’t the killer of CJB but may have used her murder as a sort of dry run for his fascination for taunting and eventual killing. Riverside P.D. may be going by the "middle distributor wire" citation as proof that the letter-writer had to be the killer but we’ve seen Zodiac’s propensity to cherry-pick newspaper reports and use them to his own advantage (Radetich).

So… I think I’ve convinced myself after all of this rambling that I’m on-board with Smithy in believing that the Confession letter (and Bates letters) were indeed written by a less evolved Zodiac who certainly fantasized about killing but probably had nothing to do with the murder of CJB.
That’s the scenario I’d vote for anyway…

smithy, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:12 am

Still confused Smithy. Do you think Zodiac killed Cheri?

T., apologies, I’m always so opaque.

"So you think Zodiac wrote the Confession letter (as well as the others in ’66), but did not kill Cheri?"
Yes, I think Zodiac wrote the Confession letter (as well as the others in ’66) but did not kill Cheri".
Today – yes, that’s what I think. Never say never.

Good post Entropy – that’s what I was trying to say! As usual you’ve said it much better.

smithy, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:52 pm

So the letter was typed,but the envelope had felt tip pen(!) lettering very,very much like Zs! Morrell State Examiner of Questioned Documents confirmed this -not a non experienced poster!!!

I am stating my opinion and every time I do this you throw in my "non-experience" as a handwriting expert.
I’m not here to convince anyone of anything. It’s MY take on it and I was asked for my opinion so I gave it.

Glad of it too T., your opinion, and your point re: age and the content was well made. You introduce some real doubts. Annoyingly.

H., we’re don’t disagree you and I, I think, but that gentleman Sherwood MORRILL lost my vote when he said the ’78 letter was valid, so there.
I realise he was sticking up for his friend Toschi (or probably though he was, at least), but really – that wasn’t such a good call, hmmmmm?

bruce3, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:05 pm

T27,
You need to stop personalizing and referring to yourself -I was as always referring to ANYONE that is telling us their non professional opinion based on their assessment and that goes for me ME too!!! I am saying this clearly now- I DEFER to the world authority on Z’s writing Sherwood Morrill. You do and say as you please on this.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:14 pm

T27,
You need to stop personalizing and referring to yourself -I was as always referring to ANYONE that is telling us their non professional opinion based on their assessment and that goes for me ME too!!! I am saying this clearly now- I DEFER to the world authority on Z’s writing Sherwood Morrill. You do and say as you please on this.

Well, since I’m the only one here who seems to be naysayin’ the Confession letter….it sounds like you are referring to me.

bruce3, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:06 pm

T27,
Nope not at all.Other posts on all sites kick this subject around with yea and nay comments.That’s what I told you before- we have pros and cons on any given issue with Z as this whole case is filled with it,but as to certain things I have to defer to an expert in this case. That envelope is PARAMOUNT to any determination and it was ‘felt tipped ‘like Z and those characters match to Z according to SM. I see the same thing,but, of course, this is really for me.
I have studied writing for several years and use special lighting,etc,but only for my own use.

I hope those slow mos at RSPD have it checked for DNA,etc.Actually, they have two envelopes for the Confession both sent at the same time minus stamps as ya know.

I see personality matches to Z in both the Confession and his latter missives.Another subject I had to study or psychology for many years. Others don’t’ agree -it’s all part of Z world!

Jem, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:00 am

Smithy wrote:

H., we’re don’t disagree you and I, I think, but that gentleman Sherwood MORRILL lost my vote when he said the ’78 letter was valid, so there.
I realise he was sticking up for his friend Toschi (or probably though he was, at least), but really – that wasn’t such a good call, hmmmmm?

Yeah, he lost my vote too by signing off on that one. But was it really just to protect Toschi? If so, then that’s okay. I guess. But how can we know? Which makes things very complicated…

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:22 am

In partial defense of Morrill he was right in saying the 78 letter was from the hand of Zodiac he just did not pick up the tracing or copying aspect. Hey we all make mistakes. And the FBI also said Riverside writings were likely Zodiac.

bruce3, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:50 pm

It has never proven to be an absolute certainty this letter wasn’t from Z.You don’t use one so called ‘mistake’ and condemn a life time of excellent work over one controversial missive!!! OMG gez how shallow.

Shimoda said it was genuine then a few months later backed down. There was a lot of politics (he was a bright choice for the future Chief and there was a lot of jealousy)at that time.Toschi was mentioned as we know in this missive and set off a lot of alarm bells that he may have forged it which I don’t accept for a second. An associate of mine at the time called Toschi when he was retired,but head of security and when asked about this ’78 letter and any other Z forgeries and his involvement he thought T was was ‘going to go through the phone.’ T said he would never do something like that-it was repulsive to think he was even accused of that-and it only caused ‘much more work’ for him then too. He was suffering from stress related bleeding ulcers from his investigation of Z over the years and was ‘always tired’ as well as swamped with other case work too.

You have non Z experts (knowing Z’s quirky writing was a field all of its own!) rendering an opinion that did not have the vast background SM did-not even close.
How many worked form the originals?

Few have seen the ’78 envelope with double postage. The writing on the envelope looks good.

The DNA. Toschi did handle this envelope and letter so his DNA could have been on it so to find his DNA would not indicate he forged this letter. Even if the letter was licked on a flap or stamps and other z missives were not this does not prove Z didn’t write it.There are other Z missives that can’t be tested because SFPD e ‘lost’ them so they are unable to test them to get a full and complete forensic picture!!! Incompetence I’d say to lose those valuable Z letters.
And talk about contamination and the ’78. It was probably handled by several others there.If they can lose evidence like that they are capable of any gross violations of evidence handling.

traveller1st, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:23 pm

Human is as human does.

We are all capable of astonishing acts of negligence. LE is not infallible.

As for the confession letter. I’m not sure. I have looked at the desktop and the letters in this case and found not only connections to themselves but also to other Z (disputed) Z letters.

But this one is typed….hmmm. I would say that the spelling anomalies are very compelling in this case. Definitive? probably not but then what is definitive in this scenario? You work with what you have (from my own knowledge I think it was MB @ ZKF who first picked up on the spelling thing).

It’s always been 50/50 for me on this one. If it is Z what can we learn from it? Does it fit with the rest of his (accepted) language? I have to say that despite it being part of the Z annals it does still seem interesting. Actually, would we even be discussing it if LE didn’t find it interesting? No, probably, is the answer I think. Who knows how many similar letters they received in this instance. What if this one is the cream of the crop? Would that change how we feel about it? Of course.

The Zodiac case will never hinge on one piece of evidence, as we know it. I mean if he turned up tomorrow and confessed, with proof, then it would, but we work with fragments. One piece might be overwhelming but it still has to fit with the rest.

EDIT: We are trying to catch a killer, so ask yourself, why is this important in that regard?

Does this one fit because we know about it and it’s connections to the case? Or does this one fit because it sparks something in us from our own experience of looking at this case? For me it wavers, I would say I fall into the camp of thinking this is Z, but only in the context of Z material. By that I mean , the spelling etc. It would be interesting to take it outside of these spheres and see how it stands on its own. I’m not even sure if that’s possible but … did LE already do this? I’m assuming we’d have to ask them.

If we took this a points system then I would say YES. I think there are more pro’s than cons. Now?…how important is that? Well… it can only be measured on its own merits – ie – balancing it vs other evidence. So? what do we think?

We are trying to catch a killer. Not show off our skills. I’m only saying this because I have been guilty of it, as we all have. Sure, it’s awesome to discuss these things, it would be boring otherwise. But let’s not forget that we are dealing with an active murder case. There’s a killer to catch. Not a God, not a Phantom, not a mystery. Just a killer,

entropy, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:44 pm

Darn shame it’s typed, traveller. I’d like to see your analysis on the handwriting. Whether it was by guile or shear dumb luck, Z certainly had a knack for leaving missing pieces of information, didn’t he?

traveller1st, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:59 am

Darn shame it’s typed, traveller. I’d like to see your analysis on the handwriting. Whether it was by guile or shear dumb luck, Z certainly had a knack for leaving missing pieces of information, didn’t he?

You and me both Entropy. It is typed though and I find myself wondering, as we all have in the past, what that tells us, if anything. Well it certainly fits easy first steps, doesn’t it? Yes and no, yes because it’s typed, no handwriting to identify, no because the author was apparently aware of identification through that medium too hence the carbon copying.

This type of thinking, in and of itself, is interesting to me because of what I think I know about Z. That being that he was more re-active than pro-active. We see that in his, read a paper, write a letter, approach.

First off we have a typed letter. Why type it and more than that why send copies. Was this overkill for your first letter to the press/authorities? Probably, so thought has gone into this but it is also water testing. Lets do this and see how it goes. The next series of missives in this part of the case are written but again it’s more water testing. Let’s write these ones, albeit disguised, and see how that goes.

There is of course the possibility that these actions, if by the same person, are re-active through experience, ie – he’s done it before and learned from that but I don’t get that feeling, at least not in any compelling way. Taking this in the context of Z it seems like a beginning. The detail and passion in this feels like someone learning their craft and wanting to convey how it makes them feel. A mission statement but a slightly over emotional one. Jump forward to Z appearing through his writing and one of his first communications is a mission statement that is less emotional, which makes sense, and it has also been taken to an additional level of disguise being that it is a cipher. Now, if we jump back to 1966 and Riverside, if this was Z and the confession was his first letter then he put some thought and I would say research into it – ie how to do it and not get caught (type and only send copies). I could see this person always thinking of another angle and, if we think of it like using google, it wouldn’t be too much of a stretch for me to imagine that person stumbling on ciphers through this type of thinking and reading choices regarding the subject of disguise. Even that word, disguise, we see the author of the Riverside material employ it on several levels, we also see Z do that and more, actually talk about it and in a way that is emotional in the context of his other writing. An echo of the confession letter?

I don’t know if this is a Zodiac letter but there’s enough of certain types of pros for it certainly to "feel" like one. Both from other’s points about it and from my own thinking.

EDIT: Guile or luck? I think that sums Z up quite well actually. I think it was both and at the same time. I said that my feeling was that Z was more re-active. That’s half true, he was in regards of what he let us see about himself but I also feel that he was a pro-active as he did things. This guy was always thinking and amended his plans even as he carried them out. I think that’s why there’s so many things that seem like anomalies in his actions and his descriptions of them. Add that kind of awareness to simple luck and you’ve got a pretty slippery fish.

smithy, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:21 am

Darn shame it’s typed, traveller. I’d like to see your analysis on the handwriting. Whether it was by guile or shear dumb luck, Z certainly had a knack for leaving missing pieces of information, didn’t he?

You and me both Entropy. It is typed though and I find myself wondering, as we all have in the past, what that tells us, if anything. Well it certainly fits easy first steps, doesn’t it? Yes and no, yes because it’s typed, no handwriting to identify, no because the author was apparently aware of identification through that medium too hence the carbon copying.

This type of thinking, in and of itself, is interesting to me because of what I think I know about Z. That being that he was more re-active than pro-active. We see that in his, read a paper, write a letter, approach.

First off we have a typed letter. Why type it and more than that why send copies. Was this overkill for your first letter to the press/authorities? Probably, so thought has gone into this but it is also water testing. Lets do this and see how it goes. The next series of missives in this part of the case are written but again it’s more water testing. Let’s write these ones, albeit disguised, and see how that goes.

There is of course the possibility that these actions, if by the same person, are re-active through experience, ie – he’s done it before and learned from that but I don’t get that feeling, at least not in any compelling way. Taking this in the context of Z it seems like a beginning. The detail and passion in this feels like someone learning their craft and wanting to convey how it makes them feel. A mission statement but a slightly over emotional one. Jump forward to Z appearing through his writing and one of his first communications is a mission statement that is less emotional, which makes sense, and it has also been taken to an additional level of disguise being that it is a cipher. Now, if we jump back to 1966 and Riverside, if this was Z and the confession was his first letter then he put some thought and I would say research into it – ie how to do it and not get caught (type and only send copies). I could see this person always thinking of another angle and, if we think of it like using google, it wouldn’t be too much of a stretch for me to imagine that person stumbling on ciphers through this type of thinking and reading choices regarding the subject of disguise. Even that word, disguise, we see the author of the Riverside material employ it on several levels, we also see Z do that and more, actually talk about it and in a way that is emotional in the context of his other writing. An echo of the confession letter?

I don’t know if this is a Zodiac letter but there’s enough of certain types of pros for it certainly to "feel" like one. Both from other’s points about it and from my own thinking.

EDIT: Guile or luck? I think that sums Z up quite well actually. I think it was both and at the same time. I said that my feeling was that Z was more re-active. That’s half true, he was in regards of what he let us see about himself but I also feel that he was a pro-active as he did things. This guy was always thinking and amended his plans even as he carried them out. I think that’s why there’s so many things that seem like anomalies in his actions and his descriptions of them. Add that kind of awareness to simple luck and you’ve got a pretty slippery fish.

Good post matey.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:53 pm

I wonder, why the wait to send anything to Cheri’s Dad?

That too is just SO personal to me.

Cheri’s death was violent and personal. Then you get a letter to her Father? Cruel.

(Donna Lass aside)…..Zodiac never sent letters to the family.

IF Zodiac killed Cheri OR even if he just took credit, I’d say he knew a "Bates".

smithy, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:03 pm

I wonder, why the wait to send anything to Cheri’s Dad?
That too is just SO personal to me.
Cheri’s death was violent and personal. Then you get a letter to her Father? Cruel.
(Donna Lass aside)…..Zodiac never sent letters to the family.
IF Zodiac killed Cheri OR even if he just took credit, I’d say he knew a "Bates".

This was the way to guarantee attention – or at least he thought so at the time, I think – this casual viciousness. A means to an end.
I’m pleased you’ve mentioned it, and I know that it probably sounds odd in a series of attacks that left six dead (including Cheri), but I really think that it’s completely unforgivable – this horrible hoax, perpetrated upon Cheri’s father.

zodio, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:08 am

AND probably had a laugh thinking of the movie ‘Psycho".

bruce3, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:39 pm

T27,
But addressing generally.

You mean all LE and seasoned Z crime reporters like Dave Peterson and Paul Avery who all believed that this Pines card was a reference to Lass were all wrong,and you are right? OMG

Z called Cheri Jo Bates his "riverside activity."3/13/71 I think he decided no more personalization using names after CJB and he continued killing. This happens with killers of the sequential variety.Later it was slaves,victims,boy -girl, cab driver,etc.

It is true an older Z never sent a letter to a victim’s family.There were things he did once.So? What does that prove?
He sent a ‘Christmas greeting’ to Belli. He sent two missives(I know you don’t really accept the HC and Pines as a Z but many others do, hence, my count of two) to Avery-the HC and the Pines. Both men are named.
He broke a trend when he did that.

Those three ’67 notes crudely foreshadowed sending three missives at once as Z did in July of 1969! Yes,again he never sent a missive to a victims family(we can scratch the ’74 Lass Christmas card I guess), but what about the other two?
One to the media and one to the police. Z addressed both institutions in the future.
All three notes had double postage like most future missives. Morrill an Expert on Z’s writing said that all three(he worked form originals too-you can see a lot more when you examine originals to originals) were the work of Z.
Even non experts have pointed out good similarities to Z’s latter writings as compared to those ’67 notes that were sent on a noted occult holiday. http://www.hauntedamericatours.com/HOLI … /index.php Some dark occultist associate April 30 the day the three notes were sent with human sacrifice.

The printing on the three envelopes-and the notes themselves- are a very good match to Z’s latter printing. Morrill confirms this fact.

A "Z" is at the end of each note which I believe is his emerging moniker. On the site Zodiac Vortex under "News" are ‘indentations'(there is an emerging science on this forensic subject-on Zodiac Vortex it shows a word/s indentation on the card-was he writing shack or in ref.’63 SB-By Fire??? )on these ’67 notes which spell ‘Zodiac’ in differing forms. It’s as though he was contemplating which spelling would be best ‘Zodiaca,’etc.So he just placed a stylized "Z" at that time. "Z" was rarely used by Z in latter missives.

When a serial killer begins he experiments,changes refines over time why couldn’t Z? His letters and crimes are examples of this trait.

So he types all in caps his first real media letter? It’s content including spelling,etc.that really determines matches to Z’s writings in the future. And that envelope block printing that seems forgotten was a great match and it too like Z used was felt tip pen!!!

I see it as young Z being clever making it appear like a ‘Western Union telegram’ which is typed in upper case and this letter/s was typed on teletype paper! I contacted the WU historian and she told me by email that they used teletype paper then.There was a WU in the RS area then so perhaps young Z worked there for a time and was able to get this type of paper and was his inspiration to do a WU type of ‘letter.’He even tore off the sheets like they did at WU then.
There is an = sign on the Pines. That immediately made me think how this symbol is used in telegrams!

"Confession"letter as we call it. Scientology taught in classes to "confess" and to be bold and frank while doing it whether in print or speech.
There was a Scientology Center in the RS area. Dianetics was selling well and many were taking up courses,etc."I am not sick.I am insane." that will not stop the game(rhyming was used -"Game" was a well used term in Scientology for whatever you had taken up or focused on -there was no right or wrong)was a Scientology type statement. Ron Hubbard (some called him" RH"-desk bottom clue? )wrote a lot about mixing the two- insanity and true mental illness,etc.

The" BY————" is just harking forward to when Z teased about giving out his real name-even in his first Code/Cipher l .

Why this? Always OPEN to possible suspect clues that may be of interest later. Many professional investigations have shown this-so no harm no foul..

tahoe27, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:26 pm

T27,
But addressing generally.

You mean all LE and seasoned Z crime reporters like Dave Peterson and Paul Avery who all believed that this Pines card was a reference to Lass were all wrong,and you are right? OMG

See what I mean? Every time I post my opinion you come back with this stuff!

So call me a fool….it’s ok. I don’t care. I think the Pines card is the biggest fake of them all.

Signed,

A non-experienced handwriting expert/non-law enforcement nobody.

morf13, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:39 pm

This All proves that after all this time we all will not agree with the bates/zodiac connection

bruce3, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:28 pm

T27,
So most every time here or there I post an opinion you chime in with a direct opposite opinion-I expect it so? That’s what posting is all about I thought?

Sorry T. Next time I will watch my phrasing,but will present my take as this is ‘posting.’

I don’t agree with most of your opinions on Z so? You don’t agree with most of mine so?
I express my take when I see them whether you are T27 or some poster called Z123-t2! Cease thinking about yourself here it’s about ‘opinions’ is all-not Tahoe!

I know people where we disagree on a subject/s,but come time off we get a drink and joke,have a good time, etc! We separate opinion from consorting-two different things.I have helped ‘behind the scenes’ as it were many people over the years on things Z that they wanted. If I was able to do so I helped even though we were poles apart on most things Z!

I see you as that way and many,many others like Sandy,etc.

No one is calling you a fool. Where did I call you a name of any kind? You need to enjoy the posting sport 1-2-3 breath relaxxxx.lol

Your photos,docs,etc.etc., postings have been liked and appreciated by all,including me.Opinions on Z are another thing entirely.

If I or anyone makes postings that are contrary to a near consensus we MUST expect contrary opposing posts.We are not MB!!! We simply agree to disagree,and that is ALL.

I have been put feet to fire hundreds for times since 2000 when I began posting so? Others have too! I defend myself as well as my research and opinions.We are ALL in this together.

I have dug for years and years to get a witness and/or a doc then I post on the info and then I congrats’-THEN I get flack- that is just Z world or outspoken US citizens saying give me more- what about this or that,etc., Life. lol.

traveller1st, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:48 pm

Agree? Us? Are they mad lol.

Actually I’m glad we don’t agree on things. I have no strong feelings about the Pines card either way (for now), for example, but I like that T doesn’t like it because at least it’s not sitting on the fence like me. We would be doing ourselves a misjustice if we caved in and just agreed on things to take the easier, softer path. Same goes for those who believe something is genuine Z. I think it helps us look at more aspects and find more compelling arguments which may become accepted as likely fact. It pushes us.

Take heart though, I think a by-product of this will be that, one day, we we all be completely impervious to criticism. A feat only hitherto achievable through life threatening quantities of alcohol.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:21 pm

bruce3:

I don’t mind us not agreeing, but it gets old after almost every post where I voice my opinion, I get comments from you about Morrill and LE….and now this "OMG" because LE and Peterson and Avery all know better.

"It’s not all Tahoe"?? What? You directed the OMG comment straight at me. I’m certainly not trying make this about myself. If you disagree, fine, but I don’t think you have to insult me in the process.

I guess I will continue to post my doubts and you can continue to give me OMG’s for not agreeing with the wise ones.

bruce3, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:24 pm

Trav,
Correct. Even the Bible says "To debate your cause with your neighbor."Everything in life has it’s opposite as per Emerson. I think he was referring to Z. lol

tahoe27, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:51 pm

For the record….no investigators or reporters ever solved the Zodiac case.

So yes, darn-tootin’ I question their judgement at times!

We have the Riverside PD not thinking Cheri’s murder was at the hands of the Zodiac killer. They felt confident this Confession letter was at the hands of her killer, yet did not believe he was Zodiac. Are they not LE? Yet we all question that.

bruce3, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:46 pm

T277777,
For a second ‘record’ -I have constantly ‘questioned’ PD over this case. RSPD for sure.That was NOT my point/s at all.
My real point is any poster can state any opinion on Z they wish and other posters can express their opinions. No one is a fool or whatever as all are EQUAL,and as I believe sincere.

If I see anything I don’t agree with I post-it does not matter WHO it is.And they have the right to do the same to me,and any other poster.

traveller1st, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:12 am

Trav,
Correct. Even the Bible says "To debate your cause with your neighbor."Everything in life has it’s opposite as per Emerson. I think he was referring to Z. lol

It also advises taking council from many people before deciding on something important. Sound advice IMHO.

EDIT: that’s me acknowledging and accepting your post. It’s funny how just typing fails (IMHO) to convey intent. I just posted that but it could be read as a correction or a challenge, that I know the bible too. Nope, just me agreeing and adding another thought.

smithy, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:48 am

Good discussion.
For the record, I don’t think any of the "designed" cards were necessarily from Z. If it’s cut from a newspaper, I’m very suspicious of it.
He forgot how to write?
"Like I’ve always said, I am crackproof"…..? Hmmmmmm.

traveller1st, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:21 am

Good point Smithy.

But then he didn’t always write did he? or did he? Or didn’t he? …. slippery fish eh? lol

smithy, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:28 am

He wrote on the cards he chose didn’t he. Didn’t he?! He did!!!
The acrostic-looking thing on the Halloween card – the "do my Thing!!!!!" on the Dripping Pen (which had a cipher in anyway – which we’re just about to solve of course.)
Nuh?
I don’t like the addresses sometimes, either. The address to Avery? I don’t like that much.

duckking2001, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:30 am

The Pines card never said anything about Donna Lass. It wasn’t verified that the Lass letter was Zodiac or even Zodiac related.

I get that a letter to a family member of a possible victim in the Lass case can be taken as a reason to suspect Z for Bates when the same thing happened there, but none of this stuff really connects to the Confession letter.

In fact the Confession letter is probably just an, intended or not, red herring at this point. I think we’ve made a good argument that it’s not clear that it could only have been written by the killer, which means we can’t really rule it either way for sure.

If the Z case is ever solved and it’s found that he did kill Cheri Jo then the value of the Riverside letters will just be in the fact that they got people to establish the connection to the cases that would have gone unnoticed and probably unsolved otherwise.

smithy, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:10 am

Hear hear, on most of that D., but, but but…
That sentence with "squirm" and "twich" in and the fact that the crime interested "The Zodiac" ‘later’ it seems (since those "d’s" on the later envelopes look like his) – those make me think he wrote it. And the whole "hoax" thing of course. It’s a hoax, that Confession letter. Yes indeedy.

You’re right it serves to focus public attention on that crime too.
Let’s hope RPD continue to be highly conscientious about it, and will keep grinding until it’s solved, one way or another. I rather think they will.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:58 am

Why say "Riverside activity"?

Why not offer something more to prove he was her killer? Is it because "activity" just meant letter writing?

smithy, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:12 pm

"Activity" could mean anything they thought he’d done, I’d say.
Smart boy. Had a way with language, didn’t he.

Luke68, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:26 am

These lines from the Confession letter bother me:

"I FIRST PULLED THE MIDDLEWIRE FROM THE DISTRIBUTOR. THEN I WAITED FOR HER IN THE LIBRARY AND FOLLOWED
HER OUT AFTER ABOUT TWO MINUTS. THE BATTERY MUST HAVE BEEN ABOUT DEAD BY THEN."

I’m not a car mechanic and have never owned a car from the 60s. Having said that, I have removed a distributor cap before when my car was parked in a dodgy area to prevent it being stolen easily.

Based on my (limited) knowledge, all cutting the wire to the distributor would do, is stop the charge going to the spark plugs upon ignition. It would have nothing to do with the charge of the battery. In other words, the battery would still be fully charged but because there was no wire to the distributor the car wouldn’t start regardless. It would be instant (no connection between battery and spark plugs) and have nothing whatsoever to do with the battery becoming dead over a period of time. Or am I totally wrong?

Another personal and subjective observation:

"SHE WAS THEN VERY WILLING TO TALK TO ME"

I’ve added the emphasis myself to the ‘THEN’ because it implies to me that she was perhaps not willing to talk to him before (validates the ‘brush offs’ point) and that there was indeed some sort of contact before.

smithy, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:15 am

…In other words, the battery would still be fully charged but because there was no wire to the distributor the car wouldn’t start regardless. It would be instant (no connection between battery and spark plugs) and have nothing whatsoever to do with the battery becoming dead over a period of time. Or am I totally wrong?

Pulling the high tension lead (middle wire) would mean that there was no current to the distributor, it would be instant, and the car wouldn’t start – yes.
It would also mean that if you continued to try to start the car the battery would discharge working the starter motor and turning the engiine, unsuccessfully. It would go dead in a reasonably short period of time, yes. The phrase:
THE BATTERY MUST HAVE BEEN ABOUT DEAD BY THEN is a little odd. Didn’t he know? The person who "helped" should have known – since he was right there trying to help start it…..

Another personal and subjective observation:
"SHE WAS THEN VERY WILLING TO TALK TO ME"
I’ve added the emphasis myself to the ‘THEN’ because it implies to me that she was perhaps not willing to talk to him before (validates the ‘brush offs’ point) and that there was indeed some sort of contact before.

It’s got to be said, he was an excellent writer.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:57 am

Another personal and subjective observation:

"SHE WAS THEN VERY WILLING TO TALK TO ME"

I’ve added the emphasis myself to the ‘THEN’ because it implies to me that she was perhaps not willing to talk to him before (validates the ‘brush offs’ point) and that there was indeed some sort of contact before.

Ooh yes. Good point.

It would seem that way wouldn’t it?

"NOW she was very willing to talk to me…since she needed help"

Luke68, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:28 pm

Smithy, to me it either indicates that the letter writer didn’t know what pulling the distributor wire actually did (but still did it) or is merely embellishing on something they read and (obviously) betraying the fact they don’t know what they are talking about.

If someone is able to identify and pull out a distributor wire, I’m going to assume they know what it does. Therefore, the second explanation is more likely. They say, if you’re going to lie, keep it as simple as possible.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:36 pm

Smithy, to me it either indicates that the letter writer didn’t know what pulling the distributor wire actually did (but still did it) or is merely embellishing on something they read and (obviously) betraying the fact they don’t know what they are talking about.

If someone is able to identify and pull out a distributor wire, I’m going to assume they know what it does. Therefore, the second explanation is more likely. They say, if you’re going to lie, keep it as simple as possible.

Hmmm…I don’t know. The letter writer wrote "MIDDLE WIRE".

As bentley stated earlier in this thread (if a copy-cat), it seems the would have written it as it was stated in the newspaper. Especially if he didn’t know that much about cars.

smithy, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:25 pm

Bentley who? :tongue:
I went through this line by line and found the articles which I thought were crucial, I think somewhere near the beginning of the thread. There’s a lot of boogie woogie out there about how the car was disabled – and at the time I hadn’t thought about whether he also had inside information or not. * shrug *

Sorry Luke – the tone of your second bit made me think your first bit was supporting the idea that the writer knew what he was talking about – and no, he didn’t seem to. Again – didn’t mean he was a bad writer though, far from it.
That "She was then" shows the same nouse, for me, as "Riverside activity" and the claims about Kathleen J. But then I would say that, wouldn’t I.

soze, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:28 pm

…In other words, the battery would still be fully charged but because there was no wire to the distributor the car wouldn’t start regardless. It would be instant (no connection between battery and spark plugs) and have nothing whatsoever to do with the battery becoming dead over a period of time. Or am I totally wrong?

Pulling the high tension lead (middle wire) would mean that there was no current to the distributor, it would be instant, and the car wouldn’t start – yes.
It would also mean that if you continued to try to start the car the battery would discharge working the starter motor and turning the engiine, unsuccessfully. It would go dead in a reasonably short period of time, yes. The phrase:
THE BATTERY MUST HAVE BEEN ABOUT DEAD BY THEN is a little odd. Didn’t he know? The person who "helped" should have known – since he was right there trying to help start it…..

Another personal and subjective observation:
"SHE WAS THEN VERY WILLING TO TALK TO ME"
I’ve added the emphasis myself to the ‘THEN’ because it implies to me that she was perhaps not willing to talk to him before (validates the ‘brush offs’ point) and that there was indeed some sort of contact before.

It’s got to be said, he was an excellent writer.

He was an excellent writer

Soze

tahoe27, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:09 pm

Question: I know there was more than one copy of the Confession letter mailed, but I was under the impression they were like a 3rd or 4th generation carbon-copy type paper. ??

These below are two completely different typed letters. Look at the last line:

The Bates "Confession" letter from someone claiming to be her killer mailed on 11/29/66, perhaps so police would get it the next day on the one month anniversary of her murder

smithy, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:16 pm

Yes – and this one, which is "possibly a reproduction".
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/File:Zodi … ession.jpg
I read a thread about there being three different versions hanging around, which I have to go look for again it seems.
I also read a thread about a new publishing system introduced at the Chronicle, which someone thought was pertinent in some way. Need to find that too!

I’ve never liked that "made up a big pile of paper and carbons" explanation either, by the way. I don’t think anyone who has tried to load lots of paper into an old fashioned typewriter would believe it was done that way. It’s silly.

Edit: An addition – T., I think the top one is the Press Enterprise version with the red corrections from LE and the case number (probably) written on it.
The second one is the "made available by Jake Wark" version, which is illegible in any case. It’s a mock-up, of course.
The other one I posted – I’m not sure what that is…
My conclusions are based on a thread we had going on ZKF in 2009. (With all the usual suspects in!)

Now to find that other thread….

zodio, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:40 pm

Also mentioning ‘the game’ makes me think it’s Z. I do believe he knew her or at least wanted to get to know her but got’brushed off’.

soze, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:18 pm

This will sound like a really strange question, but are my eyes deceiving me or are the individual letters misaligned when typed? A particular word to look at would be the word "insane ", first word, fourth line from the bottom on the left. There also seems to be gaps in spacing between sentences particularly below the word "young " of the first line.

Soze

traveller1st, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:24 am

What are people’s thoughts on the spacings after the full-stops/periods in the letter?

He seems to move from double spaces to then using single spaces. From my own point of view this makes me think of typing vs typesetting. For typing (office work etc) double spacing is/was the norm but for typesetting (design, newspapers etc) single spacing is/was the norm as it looks neater.

If I’ve mentioned this before then disregard.

morf13, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:44 am

What are people’s thoughts on the spacings after the full-stops/periods in the letter?

He seems to move from double spaces to then using single spaces. From my own point of view this makes me think of typing vs typesetting. For typing (office work etc) double spacing is/was the norm but for typesetting (design, newspapers etc) single spacing is/was the norm as it looks neater.

If I’ve mentioned this before then disregard.

Not familiar enough with either to have an opinion, sorry. But if there’s a possibility he had a newspaper background, wouldnt surprise me

tahoe27, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:00 pm

Interesting. Makes me believe it was somone familiar enough with typing, but not super experienced.

In typing class, you are taught to double-space after a period. (triple after a zip-code) Could be he (she?) was just forgetting to double space. Typing in all caps would be easier–and more difficult to trace to a typewriter as well. Sort of rings beginner, but could be what they wanted. I mean, they knew mailing protocol.

***

Also in regards to Soze’s post, I know looking at differences in typewriter imprints is important when looking for the actual machine. Problem is…and probably was…they rented these out. And, if someone had their own, you’d need the suspect–and his/her typewriter.

– Cheri’s ’66 Yearbook

tahoe27, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:02 pm

I wonder if LE ever went to that (and other) typewriter store seeing if anyone rented a typewriter around the time of Cheri’s death and/or Confession letter?

morf13, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:09 pm

I wonder if LE ever went to that (and other) typewriter store seeing if anyone rented a typewriter around the time of Cheri’s death and/or Confession letter?

Wow thats a great question. Or if they sold one right after.

traveller1st, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:31 pm

Interesting. Makes me believe it was somone familiar enough with typing, but not super experienced.

In typing class, you are taught to double-space after a period. (triple after a zip-code) Could be he (she?) was just forgetting to double space.

I wondered that too at first but he uses double spaces down as far as the sentence "She did not put up a struggle" which actually starts with no space preceding it and a double space following it. Thereafter they are all single spaces.

Odd and oddly consistent so he changes from one to the other rather than alternating which is what I would expect if it was a matter of forgetting. It almost looks like he decided after he’d typed so far that the double spaces looked too much and then tried one with no space which wasn’t enough and then settled on a single space for the remainder – Goldilocks – one space was just right lol.

soccer, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:31 pm

Every 9th grader who took typing was told to buy a typewriter in the late 6o’s -early 70’s ,as they would need it the next 4 years and college too. you could buy them used for not a lot. garage sales etc.
and many did .I still have my our royal typewriter from around 1970

soze, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:06 pm

Actually, and i am sure again that this will sound strange, but what I was thinking was that he had his own handmade device, consisting of not one but two typewriters : one to type into and the other to print. It makes carbon copies from both typewriters and only types in all caps. Ive seen the patent prints on it before. Don’t recall that it appeared all difficult to make. For some reason i got to thinking about this device, thought about the confession letter and just had to look again at the printing. Anyway, when it sends out the charge from one typewriter to the next, it actually pulls the text or shifts the text because of the charge. The device would be a rendition of an early model teleprinter from say the mid to late 1800’s. The specific device I am refering to would be the burlingame telegraphy typewriter. Anyway, its just an idea.

Soze

tahoe27, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:37 pm

Too bad the Confession Letter wasn’t handwritten. We’d have him with that damn "q"!

I know it’s been noted Zodiac spelled "twich" the same, but he spelled "squirm" differently. Zodiac spelled it "sqwirm". (see little list)

traveller1st, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:57 pm

Too bad the Confession Letter wasn’t handwritten. We’d have him with that damn "q"!

I know it’s been noted Zodiac spelled "twich" the same, but he spelled "squirm" differently. Zodiac spelled it "sqwirm". (see little list)

I’m not sure he did T.

That could easily be ‘squirm’. Look at the u in under on the next line. A – W is after all a double U so depending on how you do a u it can look like a w if there’s too much follow through on the tail.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: The "Confession" letter Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:08 pm

Yes. Probably the ‘u’. Thanks for pointing that out.

‘Others shalll have PINE splinters under their nails..’

First time realized that he had used PINE here, too…strange..wonder what was the pine issue in Z’s life?

QT

I have some thoughts concerning the Confession letter:

Facts:
The 2 letter were 2 carbon copies of a typed letter.
The 2 letters, both copies were on low-quality white paper eight inches wide and torn at the top and bottom.
The 2 letters was sent to Homicide Detail, Riverside & Daily Enterprise, Riverside, Calif Att: Crime
The 2 letters were recived Nov 29, 1966 (Tuesday), and according to FBI report the Homicide Detail addressed envelope
was NOT poststamped, but the Riverside Daily Enterprise addresed envelope was postmarked Nov 29, 1966
(Monday)
The 2 letters were mailed from a rural Riverside mailbox

SO…my questions are:

1. WHY did Zodiac choose to send the 2 Confession letters without postage ???
2. Due to that the 2 letters were mailed from a rural mailbox, without postage, and one letter was poststamped Nov
29, then what day would Zodiac have actually put the letters in the mailbox?
3. WERE was that Riverside rural mailbox located???

If anyone have oppertunity to ask proffesionals within Post office/ Post history people or somthing like that, that would be great.

I think it would be of importance to know exacly what day Zodiac actually dropped the Confession letters in that rural mailbox so that we know what date we should check out if a suspect was in the Riverside (Rural) area that particular day.

And… due to no stamps and that the letters were sent from a rural mailbox could that mean it was posted by Zodiac even earlier like Nov 26 (saturday)? 27 (Sunday)?
And due to that the letter to the Homicide Detail, Riverside in one FBI report was said NOT poststamped, did Zodiac drop off that letter himself directly to the Homicide Detail, Riverside address?
NOTE that another FBI report stated that BOTH Confession letters were poststampen "Riverside" this info is stated in the Dec 1, 1966 FBI report in the below link.

Here is a link to the FBI report with info on the Confession letters :
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=91

I think there were actually 3 copies of the confession sent but one was lost? Is that correct? anyone?

I think there were actually 3 copies of the confession sent but one was lost? Is that correct? anyone?

I do believe you are correct.

In regards to the postmark dates…I have worked in several places where we had machines and you did it yourself. I could have picked any date I wanted. Not that the sender did this…just an observation.

Tahoe, we have a postage meter at my work too, but did they have that in 66?

Good questions by Foreigner.
Riverside county has many rural parts, so finding the mailbox it was mailed from would have been hard. As far as the stamps, a letter to police might get delivered anyway without stamps especially within the same town, and stamps or no stamps, would likely have taken one business day, but would also depend on what time the carrier picked it up

postage meters have been around for years..we had an old one where we had to take it in to the post office and get reset..new ones i think you just pay on line today or something along those lines…postal meters back in the 60’s were not uncommon in my opinion..any large company that sent out volumes of mail would have had easily had several….even mom and pop place could have had one…Z could have walked into RCC mailing room (i do believe Z worked at or was a student at RCC..for now),paid the postage fee and had the college stamp the envelope..just my take-god speed

ps: think about this a little more…Z is in riverside..mail goes from the drop box with last pick up usually 1630 hours (Z placed letter in drop box prior to last pick-up-its marked on almost all drop boxes)…then letter to post office distribution center and out following morning at 0530 to the destination in riverside..even today you have some idea how this works..if i mail a letter to local firm it goes from my drop box into the city and is on the desk of my intended recipiant the following day…Z could have easily planned to have the letter delivered on the date he desired barring a post office screw up..the post office we have today is still the same as what we had 40, 50 years ago..still bad as ever and not much in way of efficiency has changed…its gubment so thats a clue to how they operate

We had one in work and yeah, I think it was topped up online or by phone. A slight aside.

Reading snooter’s post about the PO I recalled something from the news a few years back. I think, not sure, but I think it was in relation to main sorting office in Belfast. They were renovating and during this removed a large board (notice board? covering pipes?) and behind it they found hundreds if not thousands of unsent mail. Mostly, I assume, unstamped or not stamped enough but either way and again I assume, stuff that would mean extra work to some degree so they just hoofed it behind this board instead. There could be Z letters out there still tucked behind something in a sorting office somewhere.

I’m wondering though if such an experience or knowledge prompted his approach to mailing. I don’t know about the US but here, if you take a letter to the PO and hand it over the counter for posting then it gets stamped and postmarked there meaning it doesn’t go to the sorting office and lessens the chance of it getting lost. I wonder if posting in a less used (rural?) box with less throughput on it means it’s also less likely to get lost as opposed to it going through a central one with a high volume of mail? There’s also the double postage thing later on. Another means from knowledge or experience to avoid the pitfalls of mail?

i believe the whole double postage was Z’s way in making sure there was enuff paid for the PO to delver it (Z did want to be read in the paper)…I still put on extra stamps especially if the letter weighs more that what a single stamp would cover..i am just to lazy to walk into the PO for correct weight and stand in that line..basically another 47cents or another forever stamp just is worth it to me to avoid that PO frustration and dealing with those slow as snail PO people…another thing is may be Z figured why let the person know i am the sender..ill just put 2 stamps on it and that way i can be sure it will be delivered and another consideration with extra postage (and i do this) if the PO sees more stamps may be they will think its really important and will make all effort to get the letter to its destination..really tons of reasons why double postage…and again i stamp way more than needed as well today..

ps: any mail will end up at a sorting facility (it will be sorted to proper route by someone or at some PO facility–today even if i mailed a letter to my neighbor it would leave my town to the PO sorting facility 50 miles away and the following day arrive at my neighbors box which is right next to mine on the street)..Z would almost would have to have hand delivered it to the box of bates if bates had box out front or next to front door to be 100% certain the letter reached its correct destination..if bates had a post office box where they had to go to the post office to retrieve days mail that would have eliminated the mail carrier and another possible time a letter could be lost or used for tissue paper by the mail carrier…of course the junkyard dog could have chased the mail carrier and got ahold of the mail bag in which case the mail carrier would never have attempted to pick up Z’s letter and it would be lost….one thing is certain i have never seen a Z letter where he had the balls to open the mailbox at the intended destination and avoid the PO…may be there is but i cant recall of any letter that Z sent that was not stamped and not routed thru US postal service facilities…

ps..rural route service means you have a mailbox on a post out front and not the box on your house where the mailman walks your neighborhood..they are the same but different..if your mail guy is 400lbs (like mine) and does not get out of the mail truck and only pulls up to your box and places mail inside its Rural route mail delievery carriers…the skinny post office guys are the ones walking..

Ps: all caps letters was used by military forces in the sending of teletypeing letters, orders, ship to ship communication (i guess you could call it) until may be last year when they changed to a more standard letter format (sorta all caps means your SHOUTING) sorta modern day interweb crapola…I do think it is possible Z had military background of some sorts hence all caps but who knows…wingwalkers would have been worn by anybody working on or around aircraft as an example…

With the Riverside letters, double postage would have been required with the stamps the sender used. One was not enough postage.

I learned in high school typing class to use all caps on envelopes. Still do to this day. (not that you don’t make some valid points snooter. )

Don’t know if I ever posted this research findings of mine, concerning The Confession letter, on our forum:

Check out my 2 posts in this link on this issue:

http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/forum/ … 1&start=10

Quote:

For some reason there are many inconsistances between
the Oct 3, 1969 Department Of Justice report version of
THE CONFESSION, and the, to most of us KNOWN, version
of THE CONFESSION.

Interesting points Foreigner. I could also see them simply not typing the correct text,because unfortunately, there are lots of errors and typos in these reports