Look at the graphic I provided. Morrill says the Riverside materials are a definite strong match to the Zodiac materials. The FBI expert is not as definite, but does note that the Riverside writings and the Zodiac writings have "consistent hand printing characteristics" so that they could all be done by one author.

Also look in particular at the Riverside "R" and candy cane "F" compared to the Zodiac "R" and candy cane "F". Those matches are very strong, startling even. Near identical.

Mr. Wilks,

I looked at the graphic which shows exactly why Mr. Morrill could not have definitively linked the Zodiac. First, you should not be surprised the R and F are similar; you should be more surprised if many other people’s exemplars do NOT show a similarity to those common traits in the R and F. (J. Richard Gentry Ph.D., Psychology)

As for the R’s, Z used many styles of ‘R’

download/file.php?id=3074

Just curious, do you have the names handy of the examiners that disagreed with Morrill on his findings? And I’m not talking the forged 78 letter, which technically was from Zodiac, since somebody traced his letters and Morrill worked from a copy of it as opposed to an original document. I’m asking for the early Zodiac & Bates stuff, who were the experts?

Is there proof it was traced? If so, how was it proven? And, if it was traced, isn’t this something a trained document examiner would recognize…lack of flow, etc? EXACT letter matches?

Morrill was trained to know the difference. That includes tracing someone’s writing. Thanks kind of what forgers do sometimes.

***

….I’ll close this out with a quote from someone I hold in high regard and has never given me reason to doubt his ability. (He is on Facebook if some choose to follow him.) His name is Paul Westwood. He is the former Director of the Document Examinations Section of the Commonwealth Police, Australian Federal Police and the Australian Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs. He is currently in private practice. He said, "Any two writings in the same language will exhibit similarities, but for us as experts, to express a view (not a definitive conclusion) that two writings are by the same person, you just can’t consider the similarities. You also have to take account of the difference."

Something very important…I do agree.

In 1978(after Morrill retired)is when he examined these. He was NOT working from originals(unlike his previous exams)I don’t recall if the projector thing was actually proven.

Just curious, do you have the names handy of the examiners that disagreed with Morrill on his findings? And I’m not talking the forged 78 letter, which technically was from Zodiac, since somebody traced his letters and Morrill worked from a copy of it as opposed to an original document. I’m asking for the early Zodiac & Bates stuff, who were the experts?

That is a good question, Mr. Morf. I will make that my next assignment. I was actually going off information that was already on a post I read. I naturally believed it had been vetted or agreed upon. I will do the research and get back in a couple days. If I cannot locate any names, I’ll notify you as well and conclude there may not have been QDE’s in disagreement. I’ll be heading out tomorrow but I’ll be back before the week is out.

Thanks

Here is your disagreement on the Riverside letters by Mr Shimoda. FBI files, Zodiac 5, page 50/249

Thanks Richard, I remember this doc. Do you have the one handy that shows if the ‘argument’ was settled?

No I don’t, sorry Mike. Here is a handwritten section mentioning the Riverside letters a little more.
PAGE 60 Zodiac PDF 5 http://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/ … _1-249.pdf

No I don’t, sorry Mike. Here is a handwritten section mentioning the Riverside letters a little more.
PAGE 60 Zodiac PDF 5 http://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/ … _1-249.pdf

Thanks Richard, I couldn’t find it either. But this was good enough for me…characteristics were noted that one person may have prepared both the Zodiac & Bates case writing…it does NOT say anyplace that the writing appears to be from 2 different people.

Here’s something more detailed I wrote about the confession letter writing vs zodiac in 2013. Again, don’t just take Morrill’s word for it, or the FBI stating that his findings might be right, but look at the language & habits both writers share, and the M.O. of the writing….consider everything together, and that’s what makes this all fit;

From the Bates ‘confession’ letter:
“SHE SQUIRMED AND SHOOK AS I CHOAKED HER, AND HER LIPS TWICHED”
From Zodiac’s 7/26/70 letter:
“Some I shall tie over ant hills and watch them scream + twich and squirm”
Both writers misspell TWITCH the same way as TWICH. And what are the chances of the confession writer using BOTH twitch & Squirm in the same letter, and Zodiac using the same two words in a single line?

The confession letter writer wrote:
“She squirmed and shook as I choaked her”
And again, the Zodiac wrote:
“Some I shall tie over ant hills and watch them scream + twich and squirm”

Again, I pose this question to the nay-sayers, and the skeptics who doubt that the Zodiac letters & Bates letters & desk were not authored by the same person, can you state an argument or back up the theory with anything??? There seem to be some that are skeptical but I just don’t hear any reasons or details as to why. Skepticism for skepticism’s sake???

Here is the transcript of the above https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=C3o … rs&f=false

Those sentence comparisons are very convincing. Good analysis.
The unusual and convincing aspect for me, putting aside double postage, is the three Bates letters, possibly followed by the next communications of three portions of cipher, almost implying a connection, yet separated by 2 years.
Sending two consecutive communications, 67 and 69, assuming it’s the same man, bearing three letters is not a usual practice for killers.

Have you ever considered the November 8th ‘Dripping Pen’ card as a connection to Riverside – "Des, July, Aug, Sept, Oct = 7." This could indicate two kills in October, particularly as he referred to "up to the end of October" on November 9th. Was this a subtle hint regarding Riverside. Paul Avery only reported the Riverside connection on November 16th 1970, but the connection was made a year earlier in a memorandum mailed from Riverside to Napa County on October 20th 1969, after a phone call days earlier between Chief of Police Thomas Kinkead and Sheriff of Napa County Earl Randol. The letter from Kinkead detailed the similarities between the cases and intimated that the information may assist investigators in the Bay Area.
October 20th 1969 was 3 weeks prior to Zodiac’s ‘Dripping Pen’ card, in which he stated "I thought you would need a good laugh before you get the bad news, you won’t get the news for a while yet."
Was the Zodiac Killer privy to this breaking news, something he knew would soon hit the headlines. Is it conceivable he worked in law enforcement or an agency closely linked to the unsolved murders., and the above inference was related to Riverside, which he effectively confirmed four months after the Paul Avery November 16th 1970 article.

Confession Letter, November 29th 1966- "But only one thing was on my mind, Making her pay for all the brush off’s that she had given me during the years prior."
Dripping Pen Card, November 8th 1969- "I get awfully lonely when I am ignored, so lonely I could do my thing."
The two phrases combined- "But only one thing was on my mind, Making her pay for all the brush off’s that she had given me during the years prior. I get awfully lonely when I am ignored, so lonely I could do my thing."

The one similarity that hasn’t been mentioned (likely because the transcriptions we have of the Confession Letter are incorrect), is that "victim" has been misspelled as "victom". Given all the other similarities, that’s the one that put me on the side of Zodiac authorship. Here is a copy of the Confession Letter from the FBI files.

The one similarity that hasn’t been mentioned (likely because the transcriptions we have of the Confession Letter are incorrect), is that "victim" has been misspelled as "victom". Given all the other similarities, that’s the one that put me on the side of Zodiac authorship. Here is a copy of the Confession Letter from the FBI files.

Thanks, I forgot about that one. To the doubters & nay-sayers, that’s simply yet another coincidence. One thing is a coincidence, two things is an accident, three things is a pattern. We have a lot more than 3 things here

The Department of Justice report described the heel prints at the Cheri Jo Bates crime scene as "those worn by Air Force personnel" and "was identified as a B.F. Goodrich waffle design, men’s four-eighths inch washer type half heel. The B.F Goodrich Products Division of Akron, Ohio, reported that this type heel is only sold to the Federal prison industries at Leavenworth, Kansas. It was subsequently learned that Federal prison industries made low quarter military type shoes and supplied them to all the armed services using black dress shoes. The measurement of the heel indicated that it would have been attached to an eight to ten size shoe. Shoes bearing the same type heel were issued and sold at the PX at March Air Force Base in Riverside." There was a correctional facility by Joseph Bates’ workplace. Donald Fouke described a low cut shoe.
Only 25 miles from the area where Kathleen Johns was abducted is the Naval Auxiliary Air Station Crows Landing in Patterson. Following World War II, Crows Landing became an Outlying Land Field to the Naval Air Station in Alameda and later Moffett Field, near the south end of San Francisco. As you exit NASA Crows Landing to return to the Bay Area, the quickest route is immediately onto Interstate 5, which then joins Highway 132 only 1.4 miles before the point where Kathleen Johns was flagged over and where the vehicle was ultimately found burnt out. Zodiac could have entered Highway 132 just behind Kathleen Johns and trailed her for approximately 2 minutes, before he made his move.
Richard Hector recalled of Crows Landing in the 1960s, "I can remember as a school child taking tours of the base, and once the famed Blue Angels performed there. My understanding was that it was a convenient location given the practice bombing range that existed for many years in the mountains just to the west of that base. Just a single macabre anecdote: a long-time resident of Patterson would sneak onto the bombing range & would retrieve unexploded ordnance. He would dismantle them & sell the metal for scrap."
@37.5507724,-121.3006932,45779m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x8091b068933f09ed:0xbb14ea12188f929!2m2!1d-121.109444!2d37.408054!1m5!1m1!1s0x80903a6fb06a6be3:0x147ac67c51263360!2m2!1d-121.361199!2d37.6433669!3e0″> https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Nasa+Cr … 433669!3e0
Fort Ord military base. During the relevant Zodiac era, the Zodiac crosshairs could be seen in the bottom left corner of the following image, by the east garrison.

@36.5413495,-121.9687453,9.5z/data=!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x808dfb4b99bf2b4d:0xbdc110b43b1303fc!2m2!1d-121.691362!2d36.626614!1m5!1m1!1s0x808e0ccfc5859dfd:0x124654a608855d43!2m2!1d-121.947311!2d36.8007413″> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Fort+ … 36.8007413

The one similarity that hasn’t been mentioned (likely because the transcriptions we have of the Confession Letter are incorrect), is that "victim" has been misspelled as "victom". Given all the other similarities, that’s the one that put me on the side of Zodiac authorship. Here is a copy of the Confession Letter from the FBI files.

I think that is just a really blurred copy. Here is the original…all of which should be the same if they are some type of (carbon) copy. "Victim".

The only place I noticed an "o" was when the DOJ wrote it out at "victon". If you look though (which is why I think that DOJ fail is SO unprofessional) they re-wrote it with mistakes AND corrections...they also left an entire portion out? Anyone see it?

…all of which should be the same if they are some type of (carbon) copy. "Victim".

You are incorrect, and that yellow version might be a reproduction of the letter.

"A month later, on November 29, 1966, nearly identical typewritten letters were mailed to the Riverside police and the Riverside Press-Enterprise"

The carbon paper was used to hide the typewriter make, not to produce copies of the letter. 2 versions were mailed.

Notice the underline The Confession on the original:
http://crimescenedb.com/wp-content/uplo … -small.jpg

I think that is just a really blurred copy. Here is the original…all of which should be the same if they are some type of (carbon) copy.

That’s not the original. It’s a transcription. And an incorrect one at that.

The original is in the FBI file, which is also the one in the pic provided by Paul_A.

But I disagree with Paul re copies/versions… the carbon copies were used to mask the typewriter, but carbon copies of the same letter were mailed to the recipients.