I just get lost in the long river of differing

opionions regarding the rh poem. They all have

value. I cannot seem to commit to just one.

A Z letter not a Z letter.

Anybody could have written it. Things are always written here, there, and everywhere. What? We just got that lucky and had a Z letter/poem found at such a convenient time? I would bet there were numerous writings written on many desks.The rh one just happened to sound a bit evil/unpleasant. Z was pretty lucky it was even found, let alone, proved by some professionals, to be his handwriting.A needle in a haystack. I am not sure what to make of that.

Written by a male?-written by a female?

It looks like a guy’s handwriting to me. And it also could sounds if it were written with evil intentions.

And or But….

It does not look like female handwriting to me and it also has a slight tone as if written by a female.Yes, girls did write on their desks, it is not just a guy thing. A female cutting herself-yes I see that possibility. Speaking in the third person, I can see that too. Maybe just jotting down thoughts-no intent to actually kill herself.

Signing off with rh.

There are so many opionions on this. Personally, I think quite a few of the ideas people have (all could make sense) and sound plausible.

So after reading peoples thoughts on the rh poem and having reread the poem over and over and comparing the writing-I am just left undecided on this one.

Sorry, i haven’t been in school in quite sometime, but writing on or defacing desks wasn’t what girls usually did. But us Guys, with our short attention spans and A.d.d. always wrote on desks, drew picturs, cartoons, etc

How about a Guy questioning his sexuality, could his writing sound like a female? Would a latent homosexual’s writing come across as a female’s?

I don’t think it was first found until December, 1966

Yes – but it could be that the custodian (who is always mentioned in connection with this) didn’t actually discover the poem, but rather recalled having seen it on a desk in storage, upon which he located the desk in question, confirmed that the poem was there – and then alerted the authorities.

Possible, I think, unless we know for a fact that he hadn’t seen the poem prior to December.

I’ve always found the part played by sheer coincidence a bit…weird, I suppose, when it comes to the desktop. It would be less of a coincidence if P_A’s suggestion is actually what happened.

Morf

I am sorry Morf but I was a shy introverted girl who wrote on many desks. poems, small drawings, etc. Could not help myself, maybe I have some male tendencies.

I agree that a male’s writing could come across as feminine. And vice versa. Yep-It’s a tough one.

I don’t think it was first found until December, 1966

Yes – but it could be that the custodian (who is always mentioned in connection with this) didn’t actually discover the poem, but rather recalled having seen it on a desk in storage, upon which he located the desk in question, confirmed that the poem was there – and then alerted the authorities.

Possible, I think, unless we know for a fact that he hadn’t seen the poem prior to December.

I’ve always found the part played by sheer coincidence a bit…weird, I suppose, when it comes to the desktop. It would be less of a coincidence if P_A’s suggestion is actually what happened.

I for one would still like to know the name of the Custodian that found it.

here you go, have a look at this article, and see if you can tell what month the desk was found:
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=97

There’s another article like this in a magazine that mentions found in Dec 1966

*Bates is killed after her attacker disables her car (Kathleen Johns is attacked by a man, maybe Z, maybe not, who disables her car)

Lets not forget Zodiac also used a "ruse" in a similar way during the Lake Berryessa attack.

LE was sold on the idea that Zodiac, at some point, was in that library. They even tried very hard to link ALA to it by connecting him to races that happened near Riverside.

I guess there is a small chance Z was in the Library only one time, wrote the poem, then killed CJB. But the odds are the poem was written by him at a different time, and that is very important to understand.

Morf

I am sorry Morf but I was a shy introverted girl who wrote on many desks. poems, small drawings, etc. Could not help myself, maybe I have some male tendencies.

I agree that a male’s writing could come across as feminine. And vice versa. Yep-It’s a tough one.

I did too bmichelle and so did many of my (girl)friends. Certainly not out of the question for a disturbed female to have written it.

This DOJ file clearly shows that a Custodian found the desk in December, 1966!

I have two words, OCCAM’s RAZOR,( the simplest answer is likely the right one.)

….

What is the most likely scenario? What does Occam’s Razor tell us? It’s simple, the simplest and most obvious answer is likely the right answer!

But here, we are talking solely about the desk top poem. In and of itself Occam’s Razor would probably take you in an entirely different direction. The mind wants to automatically see a connection; blood and gore…it MUST be related!

The Bates letters and the Confession letter are different. We KNOW those were associated with her case (he actually uses her name). Whether her killer or an impostor–only they know for sure.

We can all talk about this until we are blue in the face. Yes, LE should have taken an interest; taken prints, asked around. But now, it’s a moot point isn’t it?

This DOJ file clearly shows that a Custodian found the desk in December, 1966!

Yep, seems conclusive enough.

Good points, T.

Apply Occam to the poem itself and it doesn’t scream blue murder. It only does so when you add Bates – and you only add Bates because of Morrill – and Morrill’s verdict is not undisputed…and so forth.

One could also add that applying Occam to Riverside as such – all the elements, poem, letter, notes, murder – isn’t really viable. You can use the razor on a particular hypothesis, but it becomes largely pointless when you’re dealing with a whole mess of different hypotheses.

Okay, let me switch my Occam’s Razor example a bit.

Looking at all of the Bates writings, letters, desktop, etc….

It seems as if very much of it, at least the Bates had to die letters and the confession letter, all match Zodiac’s habits, pattern, use of words, etc. So using Occam’s Razor, is it more likely that the letter writer and the Desktop writer (both connected by Morrill, and both coming from the same town during the same time period)are the work of one person or two?

Riverside has been connected to Zodiac basically by Phil Sins. He looked at the Bates letters, the tone of the letters, the pattern, nothing else, and saw a very-Zodiac like Pattern, which is why he went to police in the 1st place, he was no writing expert. For the Zodiac writing Authority, Morrill to then come in and verify Sin’s theory thru writing is pretty strong, and the end result is….

Somebody that shares Zodiac’s writing patterns, use of the word ‘shall’, same misspelling of twitch/twich, pension for asking his letters to be published, use of multiple stamps, possibly making calls to police about his crime, JUST HAPPENS TO HAVE WRITING CLOSE ENOUGH TO FOOL SHERWOOD MORRILL??

Think about it, Occam’s Razor. Is that a more likely scenario, or is the more likely scenario that the person whose writing habits choice of words, and asking to be published, was actually Zodiac, just as Sherwood determined, and Mr Sins suspected? Although I think the answer is obvious, I know that there will always be a divide here.

In short, the Bates letters and desktop demonstrate much of what we know Zodiac did, and match closely, and for the Bates writing to just happen to be close enough to fool Morrill, I don’t buy it. Zodiac’s pattern of wanting attention, mailing letters to cops and newspapers, asking to be published, taunting them…..that simply does NOT happen very often in murder cases, yet the person in Riverside did it and Zodiac did it, and they both luckily, against all odds, have almost the same writing good enough to fool Morrill?? Nah, I don’t think so

Well, it all – really – comes down to Morrill, then. That’s fair to say, I think. The other elements aren’t enough in and of themselves.

Writing letters (of some kind) may not be statistically normal for a killer – but it’s not unheard of either. And while the Z like quality of, well, being letters/communications is undeniable (and not that common), one could highlight:

1. That there are both similarities and discrepancies in the confession letter (similar words are used but the general tone of the letter is not, to me at least, Z like)

and

2. That the notes aren’t Z like at all for my money if you regard them in isolation.

Well, it all – really – comes down to Morrill, then. That’s fair to say, I think. The other elements aren’t enough in and of themselves.

Writing letters (of some kind) may not be statistically normal for a killer – but it’s not unheard of either. And while the Z like quality of, well, being letters/communications is undeniable (and not that common), one could highlight:

1. That there are both similarities and discrepancies in the confession letter (similar words are used but the general tone of the letter is not, to me at least, Z like)

and

2. That the notes aren’t Z like at all for my money if you regard them in isolation.

It’s very rare!

There is also the familiar trademark of extra postage.

Did Lloyd Cunningham ever pass his eye over the writings in the Bates case and if so what was his professional opinion? If not would it be worth posing that question to him? ….