Chaucer: "Men tend to choose violent (more lethal) suicide methods, such as firearms, hanging and asphyxiation, whereas women are more likely to overdose on medication or drugs."
From "Differences in Suicide Among Men and Women"
by Nancy Schimelpfening, medically reviewed by Carly Snyder, MD

Chaucer:
"Men tend to choose violent (more lethal) suicide methods, such as firearms, hanging and asphyxiation, whereas women are move likely to overdose on medication or drugs."
by Nancy Schimelpfening, medically reviewed by Carly Snyder, MD

Chaucer: sorry for the double post. Couldn’t find a way to vanish the first one.

I don’t know who wrote it. We don’t even know WHEN it was written. It was found under a desk by a custodian in a storage room approximately 6 weeks after the murder.

Moreover, other than Sherwood Morrill, most handwriting experts agreed that it was not the same handwriting as Zodiac. Also the poem pretty clearly describes a suicidal girl rather than a murder.

Lastly, what would be the purpose of writing a poem under a desk that would require sheer luck to find? Zodiac was all about publicity and promotion. If he wrote the poem it is likely he wouldn’t be furtive about it.

very nicely put!

I don’t know who wrote it. We don’t even know WHEN it was written. It was found under a desk by a custodian in a storage room approximately 6 weeks after the murder.

Moreover, other than Sherwood Morrill, most handwriting experts agreed that it was not the same handwriting as Zodiac. Also the poem pretty clearly describes a suicidal girl rather than a murder.

Lastly, what would be the purpose of writing a poem under a desk that would require sheer luck to find? Zodiac was all about publicity and promotion. If he wrote the poem it is likely he wouldn’t be furtive about it.

very nicely put!

Ignoring other possible victims and signs just because zodiac didnt send a letter so he was not about promotion and publicity is sad. He started sending letters because he was good in it(killing)

I don’t know who wrote it. We don’t even know WHEN it was written. It was found under a desk by a custodian in a storage room approximately 6 weeks after the murder.

Moreover, other than Sherwood Morrill, most handwriting experts agreed that it was not the same handwriting as Zodiac. Also the poem pretty clearly describes a suicidal girl rather than a murder.

Lastly, what would be the purpose of writing a poem under a desk that would require sheer luck to find? Zodiac was all about publicity and promotion. If he wrote the poem it is likely he wouldn’t be furtive about it.

very nicely put!

Ignoring other possible victims and signs just because zodiac didnt send a letter so he was not about promotion and publicity is sad. He started sending letters because he was good in it(killing)

In NO way am I ignoring CJB as a possible (probable IMO) Z victim. I just dismiss the idea that the poem has any relevance. Sorry if my post was not clear.

Unless we accept that, at the same time, the RCC campus contained i) a murderer; and 2) a violently deranged "poet", the two propositions are one. Whether or not the murderer is Zodiac is, in a sense, secondary. I argue that the "poem" was written by Cheri Jo’s murderer, period.

Unless we accept that, at the same time, the RCC campus contained i) a murderer; and 2) a violently deranged "poet", the two propositions are one. Whether or not the murderer is Zodiac is, in a sense, secondary. I argue that the "poem" was written by Cheri Jo’s murderer, period.

DAG: I sincerely hear what you are saying. I respectively agree to disagree in light of the fact that many killers were running wild around California at the time. I personally feel that the poem isn’t here nor there. I can accept that someone deranged wrote it perhaps … but that doesn’t make it the same deranged person that killed CJB. Also – I myself was going through a rough patch years and years ago and wrote a poem about death. It was a way to get the feelings out. I would never (and didn’t at the time even think about it when writing the poem) killing someone else. I wrote the things down in order to express pain. So I wrote about death to relieve pain …. never thinking to kill/hurt anyone. Perhaps the author of the desktop poem did the same. I just don’t feel that a lot of weight needs to be focused on the poem unless one feels that the initials are indeed a clue to the killers identity. Is that why the poem is so controversial and still has so many feeling that the poem is definitely authored by Z?

My "POI"’s initials are the same as the poem’s.

I don’t believe it’s likely that the state of California would contain two serial killers with such a similar moniker as "Z". On that basis and due to his claiming it, I think the Bates murder is a highly probable Zodiac crime.

As for believing that a college could contain both a killer and an angsty depressed poet, yeah, I can totally believe that, it’s a college campus, half the kids there were probably angsty depressed poets, have you every looked under a school desk? More ink and hate under those than a Hell’s Angels jacket. It’s like asking what the odds are that a freight train carriage would have graffiti on it. Now that I think on it, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a library desk that didn’t have graffiti under it… ever.

Unless we accept that, at the same time, the RCC campus contained i) a murderer; and 2) a violently deranged "poet", the two propositions are one. Whether or not the murderer is Zodiac is, in a sense, secondary. I argue that the "poem" was written by Cheri Jo’s murderer, period.

Again, the poem doesn’t indicate the writer was violently deranged. I teach college English and I see this type of dark poetry all the time.

Damn straight, I’ve written darker stuff than that and I’m positively cuddly. What do you all think poets write about? You don’t see no Baudelaire writing about no lollipops and sunshine, and he wasn’t even a college student, they’re the worst, worse than teenagers. Did they have The Cure back then? Nah that was before that, probably a Doors fan.

Suicide and death are very common themes in poetry – even back then. One need only look as far as Sylvia Plath or Phillip Larkin.

Intuitively, I kind of agree that there would be more than one faux-suicidal poet on campus. But I also agree with Dag that there wouldn’t be a large number.

Chaucer: I suspect the desktop poem was written before Bates’ murder by a young man experiencing emerging homicidal ideation. Had it been written after Bates’ murder the poem would be on top of the desk, and its initials meant to implicate someone the writer disliked.

This is close. I do think if it was written afterward, it would be out in the open. During ….. either/or. If it’s under the desk, it’s probably during or more likely before. If he disabled the car, he probably kept an eye on it or her. Sneaking into a side room to write the poem on that occasion seems like a risky distraction.