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Brown Car Timeline

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Chaucer
(@chaucer)
Posts: 1210
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Topic starter
 

Quick question that I have not been able to pin down an answer for. In one of the letters following the BRS attack, Zodiac said that a "Negro" was the one who identified his car as brown. When was the car description provided by Mageau published int the papers? If they were published prior to Zodiac writing the letter, did they identify Mageau as the one who said the car was brown?

“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer

 
Posted : October 1, 2020 9:04 pm
Richard Grinell
(@richard-grinell)
Posts: 717
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The brown car was subheaded in the July 6th 1969 Vallejo Times-Herald.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/112412867 … 880253085/
It was identified by Mageau.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/

“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.

 
Posted : October 1, 2020 9:34 pm
(@coffee-time)
Posts: 624
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Most were vague, but I found at least one article that directly linked the description to Mageau. The July 8th Sac Bee:
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4405773 … mento-bee/

This earlier piece was more coy about it:
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/58652787/bee-july-5-c/

 
Posted : October 2, 2020 1:22 am
Chaucer
(@chaucer)
Posts: 1210
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Topic starter
 

So when Zodiac wrote the letter about the brown car and the black guy, he wouldn’t know Mageau was the one who identies the car color?

“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer

 
Posted : October 2, 2020 3:42 am
(@coffee-time)
Posts: 624
Honorable Member
 

A couple of months ago, I dug up every July-era BRS article I could find (here & Newspapers.com), and only the July 8th Sac Bee specified Mageau as the source of the description. Of course, it was a ton of info to sift through and I might have missed something.

However, that earlier article (Sac Bee) did say that the car was spotted near the crime scene. Did the other articles specify "brown car at the crime scene"? Damn, am I going to have to look through all those again, lol.

 
Posted : October 2, 2020 4:54 am
Richard Grinell
(@richard-grinell)
Posts: 717
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So when Zodiac wrote the letter about the brown car and the black guy, he wouldn’t know Mageau was the one who identies the car color?

No, Zodiac knew Michael Mageau was the source of the brown car description because it was in several newspapers. Only one person survived at Blue Rock Springs and there were no direct eyewitnesses, so Zodiac knew that the only source of information to his car being brown had to originate from the sole survivor, Michael Mageau.

Here is another newspaper article from the Vallejo Times-Herald on July 8th 1969, stating "He (Mageau) described the killer as short and heavy set, and said he was driving a brown car similar to Mrs Ferrin’s brown 1963 Corvair".

https://www.flickr.com/photos/112412867 … 880253085/

And here on July 7th 1969 in the News Chronicle
https://www.flickr.com/photos/112412867 … 880253085/

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/

“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.

 
Posted : October 2, 2020 1:52 pm
Chaucer
(@chaucer)
Posts: 1210
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Topic starter
 

Richard,

Thanks, but what I am getting at is this:

There are those that think the "shabbily-dressed Negro" was a work of fiction designed to make the police believe that his car was brown when it was not. However, if the papers prior to that letter being written had already confirmed that the surviving witness was the source of the car color, then what is the point of inventing a phony witness?

So, my question is in regards to the timing of the reveal of the car color and the writing of the letter. The letter was likely written and mailed on August 3rd. Were there any newspapers article written that pinpointed Mageau as the source of the car color prior to August 3rd?

“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer

 
Posted : October 2, 2020 7:35 pm
Richard Grinell
(@richard-grinell)
Posts: 717
Prominent Member
 

Were there any newspapers article written that pinpointed Mageau as the source of the car color prior to August 3rd?
Yes, the one I linked

https://www.flickr.com/photos/112412867 … 880253085/

The point of inventing a phony eyewitness, is to have somebody that corroborated he was in the presence of his car, which was brown. Thereby disguising the fact he had walked to the payphone.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/

“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.

 
Posted : October 2, 2020 10:50 pm
Chaucer
(@chaucer)
Posts: 1210
Moderator Admin
Topic starter
 

Richard, I agree, but it could also be used for Zodiac to “corroborate” witness statements about his car’s color when, in fact, it was another color. He would be happy to have cops looking for a brown car while he was driving around in something else.

“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer

 
Posted : October 3, 2020 12:13 am
Richard Grinell
(@richard-grinell)
Posts: 717
Prominent Member
 

Richard, I agree, but it could also be used for Zodiac to “corroborate” witness statements about his car’s color when, in fact, it was another color. He would be happy to have cops looking for a brown car while he was driving around in something else.

That is correct Chaucer, it’s certainly a possibility. The ermine white factory colour of Chevrolets appear bronze or brown in dim light such as BRS.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/

“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.

 
Posted : October 3, 2020 12:18 am
Chaucer
(@chaucer)
Posts: 1210
Moderator Admin
Topic starter
 

Richard, I agree, but it could also be used for Zodiac to “corroborate” witness statements about his car’s color when, in fact, it was another color. He would be happy to have cops looking for a brown car while he was driving around in something else.

That is correct Chaucer, it’s certainly a possibility. The ermine white factory colour of Chevrolets appear bronze or brown in dim light such as BRS.

Yes, I’ve read your articles on that. Very compelling.

“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer

 
Posted : October 3, 2020 9:57 am
(@coffee-time)
Posts: 624
Honorable Member
 

Digging through the newspaper section of the forum, there’s this lengthy July 7th article where "Mageau was able to describe the killer’s car." Oddly, the color wasn’t mentioned.

https://servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=42&u=14983612#

So, were the two articles from July 8th the first time "brown car" was explicitly referenced in terms of Mageau…and did any suspects happen to be out of town on July 8th? It just seems weird that Zodiac would blab about Phone Booth Guy if he had read these things. Not to mention, if that guy was real, Zodiac was tipping off police to a witness who probably got a good look at both him and his car.

 
Posted : October 4, 2020 5:05 pm
Richard Grinell
(@richard-grinell)
Posts: 717
Prominent Member
 

You have to also consider the difference in Zodiac’s description in this case. Throughout his crimes Zodiac described his victims/claimed victims as boy, girl, kids, man, taxicab driver, woman and baby. Here he described the person as "a negro about 40-45 rather shabbly dressed". Why give this unnecessary detail, unless you are selling us an eyewitness.

Only one person was able to describe the assailant’s vehicle at the crime scene, and that was Mageau. The July 5th 1969 Vallejo Times-Herald stated "Officers at the scene broadcast an alert for a young heavyset, white male adult riding in a brown automobile". Therefore, Zodiac didn’t have to be Einstein to work out Mageau had given the description of his vehicle as brown.

If the eyewitness was manufactured, then Zodiac can benefit on two fronts [1] he can corroborate his vehicle through Mageau and the negro male as brown, when it wasn’t, or [2] he can sell us the idea he was still in possession of his vehicle, through two eyewitnesses confirming the colour.

The obvious question is a 10 minute journey taking 40 minutes? Where did he go? He certainly went somewhere, even if you claim he just parked up for 30 minutes.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/112412867 … 880253085/

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/

“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.

 
Posted : October 4, 2020 7:16 pm
(@margie)
Posts: 207
Estimable Member
 

Are there any reports stating that a ‘negro male’ ever questioned? HOW would Z "know" that a negro male had identified his car? I am assuming that was in the newspaper as well?

 
Posted : October 5, 2020 2:37 am
Richard Grinell
(@richard-grinell)
Posts: 717
Prominent Member
 

Are there any reports stating that a ‘negro male’ ever questioned? HOW would Z "know" that a negro male had identified his car? I am assuming that was in the newspaper as well?

There are no reports of a negro male eyewitness in the police reports or newspapers. In fact, one newspaper (News Chronicle: August 4th 1969) mentions that "the car description was given to police by Mageau, not a phone call witness as related in the letter".

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/

“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.

 
Posted : October 5, 2020 2:48 am
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