Also, while it’s on my mind… anyone know anything about the sheepherder mentioned in the report? Wesher is an extremely rare name in this country. You’d think that would make it easy to find out info on the guy… but no. Also, I’d bet almost all my money (about $1.35) that Bingo wasn’t his real first name.

I’m not saying he is a suspect, far from it. Just wondering who the guy was.

That’s because his last name is spelled wrong in the report(they made alot of boo boos). His last name is ,WESNER not WESHER. He owns a ranch in another state today.

Here’s a 1970 news article that mentions he and his wife:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=8 … 17,3753066

Anyone have a picture of the younger hunter they could pm me? I think I tracked him down to El Cerrito High School….. ’59 ish. Can’t find the yearbook online. Thanks.

I think he was born and raised in the Napa area his whole life, so if that school is not near Napa, it likely is not him. He would have graduated in 1959,give or take a year

LOL. I told you guys when I joined this site I’m not a very good internet researcher. The last two post illustrate that point perfectly.

Thx morf.

LOL. I told you guys when I joined this site I’m not a very good internet researcher. The last two post illustrate that point perfectly.

Thx morf.

No problem, you would think police would get names spelled right in the reports, but the reports are filled with errors

Just had another look on the pic of BLJ’s back, lying on the autopsy table. All of the five bullets had entered her body on the right side of her back, mainly in the area of her shoulder and below. The point is that the pattern is not that close if the shots had been fired from less than e.g. 5 feet. It also appears as if her attacker stood right behind her and was right-handed or stood little towards her right side. This would comply with David standing to the most right, being shot in his head first, and then following five shots on BLJ while she had started to run away. Just wonder how much gunshot grain was found on her dress.

As the door was open..what if Z had approached the car and then forced BLJ to get out of the car at gunpoint, while ordering David to come over around the front side of their car? This would explain both victims dying/heading away from the right side of the Rambler, although David was originally seen on the driver’s side..if he had held BLJ at gunpoint, then suddenly shot David into his head, it was easy to fire the five shots in such a narrow pattern (which isn’t that narrow actually).

QT

Anyone have a picture of the younger hunter they could pm me? I think I tracked him down to El Cerrito High School….. ’59 ish. Can’t find the yearbook online. Thanks.

I think he was born and raised in the Napa area his whole life, so if that school is not near Napa, it likely is not him. He would have graduated in 1959,give or take a year

Morf:

Thank you so much for being patient with me in my ability to do posts, due to physical limitations.

El Cerrito High School is, as one would suppose, in the city of El Cerrito in the east bay area on the Oakland side. Napa is about 40 miles north of El Cerrito.

Hope that helps.

Trainmaster

Found an interesting piece of information regarding the timeline of this sad december night:

My mother was a classmate of Betty Lou Jensen the first victim. She remembers that night well because her and David Faraday’s little sister were waiting for them to pick them up from Rainbow Girls the night they were killed. They obviously never showed up. I am unsure if my mother is going to see the movie or not.

http://edition.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/and … llers.html

Somehow I wonder how this may or may not be matching Betty Lou sister’s statement. Didn’t she actually mention that sort of a lot of young people had been up there at LHR? Instead they were expected to pick up friends as well as her sister? I guess this should have happened earlier than midnight, shouldn’t it? This would mean that David and Betty Lou were supposed to leave quite soon after the incident..

There is also a neighbor comment as well as one from a roommate of Bryan:

I know Bryan Hartnell as a good friend, having roomed with him for over a year in law school folowing the incident. I remember seeing the scars on his back from the knife wounds. I remeember the quiet phone calls he would receive from time to time regarding the investigation. He did not volunteer much about it then as it appeared to be a very painful subject. He was and remains a genuinely good and decent person. I wish him the best.

Latter could be interesting as he might be able to provide additional information.

QT

Found an interesting piece of information regarding the timeline of this sad december night:

[i]My mother was a classmate of Betty Lou Jensen the first victim. She remembers that night well because her and David Faraday’s little sister were waiting for them to pick them up from Rainbow Girls the night they were killed. They obviously never showed up. I am unsure if my mother is going to see the movie or not.[/i]

http://edition.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/and … llers.html

Somehow I wonder how this may or may not be matching Betty Lou sister’s statement. Didn’t she actually mention that sort of a lot of young people had been up there at LHR? Instead they were expected to pick up friends as well as her sister? I guess this should have happened earlier than midnight, shouldn’t it? This would mean that David and Betty Lou were supposed to leave quite soon after the incident..

There is also a neighbor comment as well as one from a roommate of Bryan:

I know Bryan Hartnell as a good friend, having roomed with him for over a year in law school folowing the incident. I remember seeing the scars on his back from the knife wounds. I remeember the quiet phone calls he would receive from time to time regarding the investigation. He did not volunteer much about it then as it appeared to be a very painful subject. He was and remains a genuinely good and decent person. I wish him the best.

Latter could be interesting as he might be able to provide additional information.

QT

The section I highlighted red…

It’s a shame that this poster does not give the specific time that they had arranged for David to pick them up. I have said several times that i think it’s odd that David & Betty are still parked up at Lake Herman at the gated entrance at 23:15 when, according to Betty’s parents, Betty had been told to be back home by no later than 23:00. This was their first date, Betty first date she was ever allowed to go on with anyone, so you’d think not only Betty would endeavour to be back by the allocated time, but that David also, wanting to make a good and trustworthy first impression on The Jensen’s, would have drove her back home by 11 the latest.

That’s why I think there’s a very good chance that David and Betty were not out there post 11pm of their own free will and Zodiac may have possibly been holding them against their will. I know this isn’t a popular idea, but I just can’t help but think Z was out there on foot, and had simply walked up to their rambler and let himself into the back seat and ordered them to act natural and stay calm. A passing witness did recall that as she passed the Rambler, the male in the driver seat seemed to place both hands on his steering wheel in response to her vehicles headlights hitting the rambler. May just be me personally, but that seems rather odd and either the reaction of a nervous Faraday to a passing car (which doesn’t really make sense) or, the actions of someone possible ordered at gunpoint to place both hands on the wheel where the gunman can see them and make sure Faraday doesn’t try and signal for help.
Just a theory the last bit.

Back to bullets…

Here is one of the the actual bullets used:

I still question if a .22 made this hole:

Well, actually ballistics may not be as straight forward as I first assumed….

It seems terribly unlikely that James Owen voluntarily came into the Sheriffs Office just to incriminate himself. There is not one thing in the whole world that is the least bit suspicious about his statement.

The one KNOWN "witness" who never came forward is the person in the car parked next to David’s Rambler a minute or so before the shooting. According to the crime scene sketch that is based on his statement, it was parked head in. Maybe that sketch is wrong. If it’s right, then the shooter apparently got out of the passenger side. If it’s wrong, he got out of the drivers side. So there is a roughly fifty-fifty chance he got out of the passenger side, with a very slight edge given to passenger side.

It’s also possible it was just a friend of theirs who pulled in, said, him and left. Moments later, the shooter, hiding in the darkness to the right of the Rambler walked up and started shooting. But then, why didn’t the driver of that other car come forward and make a statement?

Obviously, if he got out of the passenger side, someone else, an accomplice, was driving. That night explain one thing: If someone was shooting at them from the passenger side of the car, then why on earth would Betty Lou and David get out of the car on that side? Maybe the driver of the other car got out first, ran around to the drivers side of the Rambler, and started chasing them out BEFORE the shooter got out of the passenger side and fired a warning shot into the BACK of the Rambler to stop Betty Lou from running away. Temporarily.

After asking David some .22 caliber questions and not getting the answers or assurances he wanted, he shot David, Betty Lou desperately tried to get away, and he very calmly and coolly gunned her down. He only missed a moving target once. That’s experience. (Or maybe he tried firing one more warning shot at some point first.)

That of course implies he was an experienced killer who knew David and had a reason to shoot him. If he had an accomplice, that sounds like a drug dealer. We know David tangled with at least one drug dealer days before he got shot, and we know a shocking number of people were getting shot in Solano County over drugs at that time.

IF the crime scene sketch is correct. 50-50.

According to Terry Cunningham, two jail birds in Vallejo told him this exact story. He said the jail birds knew at least as much about it as the Zodiac did. They knew what Betty Lou and David were wearing, etc. They of course denied doing any of the shooting. They blamed the guy in the passenger seat. A beefy young thug with red hair known to Cunningham as a prime suspect in other shootings. That is, the kind of guy who could cold bloodedly gun down two high school kids on Christmass eve.

50-50.

What are the odds of a drug bust too–very near the same time David and Betty Lou were killed. It certainly does make one wonder.

It seems terribly unlikely that James Owen voluntarily came into the Sheriffs Office just to incriminate himself. There is not one thing in the whole world that is the least bit suspicious about his statement.

Sorry, but have to totally disagree. Owen came to give his statement, 9 hours after the shooting, and was standing at the scene of the crime, with quite possibly, blood, or chalk outlines within site. He knew they were shot to death. All of this, but he does not mention hearing a shot the night before? Why? 3 Days later, they question him again, and he suddenly says he heard a shot after he passed the scene about a quarter mile down the road. I find it highly unlikely you would fail to mention hearing a shot while you are standing at the scene of a double shooting. The quarter mile part is very suspect as well, Owen claims there was nobody within site anyplace when he went by, in or out of the cars. But the shooting supposedly starts once he is a quarter mile down the road, which is likely 20-30 seconds. For this to be true, Zodiac would have had to spring out of wherever he was, and literally run up to Faraday’s car, and start shooting. Would Z really take a major chance like that? A car passes, and within 30 seconds you are shooting?? It’s suspect to me.

The one KNOWN "witness" who never came forward is the person in the car parked next to David’s Rambler a minute or so before the shooting. According to the crime scene sketch that is based on his statement, it was parked head in. Maybe that sketch is wrong. If it’s right, then the shooter apparently got out of the passenger side. If it’s wrong, he got out of the drivers side. So there is a roughly fifty-fifty chance he got out of the passenger side, with a very slight edge given to passenger side.

Your details are incorrect.

If there really was a car parked next to Faraday’s when Owen went by it, it belonged to the shooter, no exceptions. We know this because of Owen stating he heard a shot a 1/4 mile past the scene. The sketch of the two cars, is based on what Owen claims he saw when he passed the scene. There was no ‘mystery witness’ there a minute before the shooting. There are two possibilities:

1) Owen is telling the truth, and the car next to Faraday’s was zodiac’s, and started shooting immediately after Owen went by

or

2) Owen is lying about a 2nd car there, and anybody that was at the crime scene so close to the murders and is lying, should be considered a suspect.

These are the only two scenarios here.

If you have not done so, you may want to read the interview I did with James Owen, here-
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=66

Here’s part of it:

MORF13- One thing I have a question about was regarding what you told them in the 2nd statement and not in the first statement. In the 2nd statement, you said that you thought you heard a gunshot, but you did not mention that in the first statement. Why didn’t you?

JO- “I didn’t know if it meant anything, I didn’t really know what was going on"

MORF13- So what can you tell me about hearing the shot?

JO- "when was it again? November?"

MORF13- no, it was December

JO- "It was a cool quiet night, and the leaves were off the trees, I think the sound carried well"

Morf:

I’m not quite following your logic, here. You’re saying that Mr Owens "admitted" to hearing what MIGHT have been a gunshot because he’s GUILTY, and that was his way of covering up? What about the kid who was "adjusting his girlfriend’s motor" who, AFTER he read about Lundblad’s ridiculous "theories" about the shooting in the newspaper, "remembered" that the guy who stopped to help was actually creepy and weird. AFTER his "memory" had been influenced by the newspapers.

Does that make HIM guilty?

George Bryant thought he heard kids setting off firecrackers in the parking lot of BRS. (He did.) He didn’t call the cops, because he didn’t think they were gunshots. AFTER cops told him someone was shot that night, he said, "Oh, yeah. I might have heard some gunshots, too." Does that make HIM guilty?

I just don’t see one single solitary reason to seriously consider James Owens a "suspect." We know of a gang of cement heads who drove around Vallejo shooting people, and two of their "friends", who knew a LOT more than Zodiac did about LHR, said they were in the second car that James Owen saw there. They said they saw one of said cement heads get out of the car they were in and shoot Betty Lou and David. But, that guy can’t possibly be a suspect, according to all the Zodiac experts. We know a witness, James Owen, whose statement seems to confirm what the two cement heads told police, that another car parked next to the Rambler seconds before the shooting started, and the empty shell casings confirm that said shooter got out of the passenger side of the second car. Just like the cement heads told Cunningham he did. But the WITNESS is a viable suspect?

The guy we know shot people in Vallejo and who was fingered by his friends for this shooting CAN’T be a suspect, but the witness who confirms that theory CAN be?

I don’t get it. You’ve lost me completely.