One of the things that has bothered me is that people think someone may have been trying to take David’s ring or that he was in the process of giving it to Betty Lou.
But, Butterbach describes here that he noticed David clutching his ring WHILE AT THE HOSPITAL. No way would David have held that position AFTER he was placed into the ambulance if he was found that way. It’s just odd to me.
David was alive. We know this. Could he have been going in and out of conciousness before his death?
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Click on this photo and the video will start where Butterbach is speaking of the incident:
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
Here is a photo of a 1970 VHS class ring–thanks to Tracers!!
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
Fair Point Tahoe, ( as the idea that Z’s approach may have been to use robbery as a ruse) that said, isn’t it more likely to have been partially off before he was shot? Maybe he started to take it off and it slipped further in the interim. Very hard to imagine he was in any state to consciously do that later or even have the strenght to do so.
OOPS, that is to say the possible robbery ruse by Z is Important.
Yes…could have been a possible robbery attempt…fake or real.
BUT, if he took it off prior to being shot, how did he manage to hold on to it?
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
Not Sure, all we can do is speculate…at a pure guess, Zodiac told them he wanted their money/valuables or Davis assumed it was a robbery and at whatever point, only had time to get it as far the joint. Perhaps he was trying to get it off to conceal it, as Betty Lou was exiting and didn’t get the chance to remove it fully. It could have released further after being shot and or while they were moving him to the ambulance.
Something like that! At least I’d find that type of scenario easier to imagine, than David being in any condition to be able to remove it after being shot.
I lean towards the ring NOT being off his finger. It sounds to me like it was on his finger and it was his other hand grasping it, but as you mention…nothing but specutlation.
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
Funny enough the ring was something that has always bothered me. Theres been no explination as to why David was holding it between his fingers when he was found, and it seems to have been overlooked by the investigation as unimportant. I think this could be evidence that Zodiac communicated with David and Betty, maybe he used similar tactics at LHR as he did at LB, where he told Bryan ‘Ok everyone stay calm, all I want is your money…I am an escaped convict’ etc. Maybe David was in a similar predicament to Bryan and had no cash on him, so offered his ring as a substitute.
Another thing thats I have always wondered regarding the LHR attack is, did Zodiac have his vehicle, or was he on foot? Did he know that little lay-by/parking area was a lovers lane hot spot and lay in wait in the bushes behind the metal gate? This theory does have its merits because te approaching police, coming from both directions, do not recall/record seeing any vehicle’s passing them as they approached the scene. And I also saw, in a newspaper article in the aftermath of the crime state "A large calibre rifle bullet was found at the scene’ and the article went on to describe how the police were of the opinion that the shooter had been hid in the undergroath and fired at the couple first with a high calibre weapon.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
Funny enough the ring was something that has always bothered me. Theres been no explination as to why David was holding it between his fingers when he was found, and it seems to have been overlooked by the investigation as unimportant. I think this could be evidence that Zodiac communicated with David and Betty, maybe he used similar tactics at LHR as he did at LB, where he told Bryan ‘Ok everyone stay calm, all I want is your money…I am an escaped convict’ etc. Maybe David was in a similar predicament to Bryan and had no cash on him, so offered his ring as a substitute.
Another thing thats I have always wondered regarding the LHR attack is, did Zodiac have his vehicle, or was he on foot? Did he know that little lay-by/parking area was a lovers lane hot spot and lay in wait in the bushes behind the metal gate? This theory does have its merits because te approaching police, coming from both directions, do not recall/record seeing any vehicle’s passing them as they approached the scene. And I also saw, in a newspaper article in the aftermath of the crime state "A large calibre rifle bullet was found at the scene’ and the article went on to describe how the police were of the opinion that the shooter had been hid in the undergroath and fired at the couple first with a high calibre weapon.
BBM. I hadn’t read about this or else I’ve forgotten it. If the shooter was hidden it puts a whole different light on the events and possible suspects. Ms. Ferrin running from the car would fit either case (responsible in vehicle or hidden in undergrowth). Since she was found several yards from the vehicle she had several seconds available to make a judgement, exit the car, then travel that far.
Does anyone know if all of her wounds were at close range? Iirc, the diagram of the site showed some shell casings a good distance from the victims yet some casings were very close to the Ferrin boy.
When in doubt, don’t.
The reporter may not have known that ammo that is .22 Long Rifle is commonly also used in .22 handguns.
MODERATOR
Funny enough the ring was something that has always bothered me. Theres been no explination as to why David was holding it between his fingers when he was found, and it seems to have been overlooked by the investigation as unimportant. I think this could be evidence that Zodiac communicated with David and Betty, maybe he used similar tactics at LHR as he did at LB, where he told Bryan ‘Ok everyone stay calm, all I want is your money…I am an escaped convict’ etc. Maybe David was in a similar predicament to Bryan and had no cash on him, so offered his ring as a substitute.
Another thing thats I have always wondered regarding the LHR attack is, did Zodiac have his vehicle, or was he on foot? Did he know that little lay-by/parking area was a lovers lane hot spot and lay in wait in the bushes behind the metal gate? This theory does have its merits because te approaching police, coming from both directions, do not recall/record seeing any vehicle’s passing them as they approached the scene. And I also saw, in a newspaper article in the aftermath of the crime state "A large calibre rifle bullet was found at the scene’ and the article went on to describe how the police were of the opinion that the shooter had been hid in the undergroath and fired at the couple first with a high calibre weapon.
BBM. I hadn’t read about this or else I’ve forgotten it. If the shooter was hidden it puts a whole different light on the events and possible suspects. Ms. Ferrin running from the car would fit either case (responsible in vehicle or hidden in undergrowth). Since she was found several yards from the vehicle she had several seconds available to make a judgement, exit the car, then travel that far.
Does anyone know if all of her wounds were at close range? Iirc, the diagram of the site showed some shell casings a good distance from the victims yet some casings were very close to the Ferrin boy.
It wasn’t Darlene Ferrin, it was Betty Lou Jensen.
The second highlighted point, I don’t know how far exactly Zodiac was when he shot Betty in the back but what we do know is this…
Betty was shot while running away. This mean’s that the shooter was shooting at a moving target at distance, at night in a dark lane. The report states that Betty was hit 5 times in the back. Zodiac later got quite upset and angry when police tried to say the area was sufficiently lit for the shooter to take aim and hit Betty. Zodiac wrote and corrected their assumptions by saying "Last Christmass In that epasode the police were wondering as to how I could shoot + hit my victoms in the dark. They did not openly state this, but implied this by saying it was a well lit night + I could see the silowets on the horizon. Bullshit that area is srounded by high hills + trees. What I did was tape a small pencel flash light to the barrel of my gun. If you notice, in the center of the beam of light if you aim it at a wall or celling you will see a black or darck spot in the center of the circle of light about 3 to 6 inches across. When taped to a gun barrel, the bullet will strike exactly in the center of the black dot in the light. All I had to do was spray them as if it was a water hose; there was no need to use the gun sights. I was not happy to see that I did not get front page coverage."
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
Here’s what the police report states.
"By the right front door of the station waggon where the man’s head was outlined (in chalk), there was a very large pool of blood. Several small calibre casings were also on the ground in the area".
Now I am aware that this comment of ‘in the area’, will be taken by some as a general one that is describing a vast area surrounding the car and road, but for me, the fact that the comment about shells being found is made straight after the comment about the position of Davids body suggests that the casings were found right where David’s body had lay. That would also seem to make sense because once Zodiac had shot David at point blank range, the reasonable assumption to make is that Betty then instantly ran for her life. Zodiac probably shot her from the same position as he had been standing when he shot David, hence the casings found in the same spot. Also, If Zodiac was chasing Betty when shooting, that would make it twice as difficult to aim and hit the target he’s fireing at.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
Thanks Welsh Chappie. You now see why I am retired. 
So what would be a reasonable distance for him to have shot Ms. Jensen while she was running? The 22 bullet could have traveled a fairly good distance and how far could the light attached to the barrel travel (depending on the quality of the instrument providing the light) ?
When in doubt, don’t.
Thanks Welsh Chappie. You now see why I am retired.
So what would be a reasonable distance for him to have shot Ms. Jensen while she was running? The 22 bullet could have traveled a fairly good distance and how far could the light attached to the barrel travel (depending on the quality of the instrument providing the light) ?
Well, as for what the distance was between Zodiac & Betty when he shot her, the police report states "Approx Ten feet away from the station waggon was the body of a young girl (Betty)." That is obviously where she fell, weather she was Ten feet away from Zodiac when he began shooting at her is open to question (Although it’s highly unlikely because Betty was running away at the tme she was shot, so the common accepted version says).
The second question you asked was how far would the light likely travel from it’s sorce to the traget it is pointed at? Well, that depends on the type of light and its strength. For example, Laser lights are pin point specs of light thar can be projected hundreds of miles onto a target object. A standard flashlight is not precise as far as the beam of light goes and won’t illuminate something 200 yards away in most cases. But, Zodiac does give us a good idea of what the light travel distance and accuracy was on the device he used. He stated that he used a pencil flashlight taped to his gun. This would be far more accurate when fireing at a target, and the distance a thin beam of light travels, such as a pencil light beam, is greater than a wider beam. Zodiac himself said " What I did was tape a small pencel flash light to the barrel of my gun. If you notice, in the center of the beam of light if you aim it at a wall or celling you will see a black or darck spot in the center of the circle of light about 3 to 6 inches across. When taped to a gun barrel, the bullet will strike exactly in the center of the black dot in the light."
That’s about all I think we can say for certain.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
Well, as for what the distance was between Zodiac & Betty when he shot her, the police report states "Approx Ten feet away from the station waggon was the body of a young girl (Betty)." That is obviously where she fell, weather she was Ten feet away from Zodiac when he began shooting at her is open to question (Although it’s highly unlikely because Betty was running away at the tme she was shot, so the common accepted version says).
I thought the 10 ft. was accurate too thanks to lousy police reports, but it appears she was further than that. I think it was actually like 28′ or so.
Maybe the 10′ came about because that is where they think she was first shot? One bullet did go through her.
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
