The apparent position of where that (first ?) shot was fired from, does give me pause for thought with regard to whether or not there was a second car there at the time. I’ve always wondered too if the timing was just fate or down to knowledge. By that I mean, in respect to the hunters. They were there for about 2 hours and the shooting began not long after they left. I wonder if the killer knew they were there or just happened along after they left.
Of course that does not exclude Z driving by a few times but is also dependent on how long Betty and David were there before hand. (as per Bidou’s evidence if correct)

All that said, you would still have to ask why the person Owen claims was there did not come forward, if Z was on foot. The timing vis-a vie police being alerted and boxing Z in, does not come into the equation for me. They estimated it took Borges about 5 min to reach police and Z was already gone before she arrived (if he was driving)

Now that I think of it , if Z was on foot, Owen would have to be lying or badly mistaken. He claims to have passed, seen the car and then heard a shot. Borges didn’t pass another car!

Well i’m just adding this ‘Zodiac on foot at LHR’ theory as something to think about based on the things such as the footprint found in the undergroath and also the location of the crime scene, in my opinion anyway, is not one that is advantagous to commit murder and make one’s escape in a vehicle. I know that any logical reasoning would say that an escape via vehicle is the quickest and safest way, but we are not dealing with a logical or rational man with Zodiac. Some may argue that it’s just not logical for Zodiac not to be at LHR in a vehicle for many reasons, and i’d agree on the face of it thinking rationally. But Zodiac took other risks that he could have easily avoided if he wanted. For example, Zodiac could have asked Paul Stine to drive him to West Pacific Avenue, the road that runs along the side of Julius Kahn Play Ground if he wanted to make his escape far easier and far far less risky. (A side note, one of the common symptoms seen in people with frontal lobe brain injury, that Lawrence Kane suffered from, according to the Brain-Injury-Institute is that they seem to have compulsions to assume risky behavior). Or Zodiac could of asked for his drop off location to be Spruce Street, for example. Its almost as if Zodiac wanted to be seen?

Anyway, starting to ramble now so will leave it at that, lol.

Hi, Smithy:

Hope things are well with you and everyone else.

Nothing wrong with speculation………that is all we can do!

I discount the theory that Betty Lou ran towards an oncoming car – Zodiac would not want to be seen. And the odds that the driver was Mrs. Jensen, Betty Lou’s mother are way out there in left field.

Welsh Chappie: I wasn’t directing my remarks at anyone! We cannot eliminate the idea that the killer might have been on foot, as no eyewitneses saw what happened. Owens saw two cars just before the crime took place – that is all we have to go on.

TM – I was thinking Betty Lou might have been running – rather ironically – toward the headlights of Stella (nee Borges) Medeiros’ car, coming up LHR. And being cheeky about an earlier post.
But it’s speculation, of course.

Hi, Smithy:

Hope things are well with you and everyone else.

Nothing wrong with speculation………that is all we can do!

I discount the theory that Betty Lou ran towards an oncoming car – Zodiac would not want to be seen. And the odds that the driver was Mrs. Jensen, Betty Lou’s mother are way out there in left field.

Welsh Chappie: I wasn’t directing my remarks at anyone! We cannot eliminate the idea that the killer might have been on foot, as no eyewitneses saw what happened. Owens saw two cars just before the crime took place – that is all we have to go on.

TrainMaster, I didn’t take the remarks as if directed at personally, I was just trying to clarify why I think theres a good reason to at least take into consideration that Zodiac was, while on LHR, on foot. If the tone of my reply sounded as if I was being defensive, I didn’t intend it too.

I mean if we look at what we know about the night as fact due tothe evidence, then we have to ask why would a bullet be fired into the vehicle from the rear, if Betty and David were parked facing out onto the road, and Zodiac pulled up next to them in the lay-by. Why would Zodiac pull up, exit his vehicle, them walk around to the rear of David’s Station Waggon, to fire a random bullet into it when he could of (as he did at Blue Rock Springs) just walk up to the passenger side door and open fire?
It doesn’t make sense, unless the offender was watching them from the bushes behind the gate (where they found that fresh, deep foot print in the soil just behind some undergroath), and opened fire from his position while hiding at the rear of the vehicle.

Welsh Chappie:

I was not, in the least, upset at your post. I did not want you offended.

Anything is possible about LHR. Even Graysmith, before he presented his theory, prefaced it with:

"This is what might have happened."

That is all we can do: reconstruct the crime scene as best we can. No one is/was around
to verify or correct the conclusions.

The only statement we have to go on is Owens claims to have seen two cars, parked about 10 feet apart, minutes before the shooting began. Is he being truthful? No one else saw the scene to cooborate his story or refute it.

Welsh Chappie:

I was not, in the least, upset at your post. I did not want you offended.

Anything is possible about LHR. Even Graysmith, before he presented his theory, prefaced it with:

"This is what might have happened."

That is all we can do: reconstruct the crime scene as best we can. No one is/was around
to verify or correct the conclusions.

The only statement we have to go on is Owens claims to have seen two cars, parked about 10 feet apart, minutes before the shooting began. Is he being truthful? No one else saw the scene to cooborate his story or refute it.

Train, I don’t recognise that name Owen’s so am guessing that is one of the hunters that were on LHR that night? You one comment has got my attention though… " No one else saw the scene to cooborate his story or refute it"

I wasn’t aware, not that I can recall anyway, anyone reporting seeing two vehicle’s parked in close proximity where David and Betty were parked. I do recall reading something (Again, this was long ago so I may be mistaken in certain aspects) about a two vehicles parked near-by and then not long after, a second report reported seeing only one. I think it was something along thoes lines anyway.

So, who is Owens, and what was the story regaring the vehicles or LHR? (You got me trying to recall what I had read now a while back, and I just can’t remember the details. When you get 5 minutes spare refresh my memory wigth a few details please

James Owen

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=66

Remainder of this thread moved to viewtopic.php?f=47&t=66&p=2211#p2211 as it pertained to James Owen and requested by Tahoe.

Hello, Smithy: How are things going?

Regarding your post, the last one on the previous page, I was not directing the post at anyone.

Sure, it was possible the killer was on foot! We don’t know exactly what happened, or what order the kids were shot, for certain. Because of the power burns, I can buy the theory
the killer shot Betty Lou, to make it difficult for her to "run away," quickly disposed of Faraday and then finished the girl off.

As far as speculating, that is all we can do – no witnesses who saw the crime……inconclusive evidence, as far as to what went on – what else can we do? Even Graysmith admits to "this might be what happened next."

Smithy, you have me curious about one statement you made – where do you get the idea
the Mrs. Jensen was driving out there, on LHR, when Betty Lou saw a car? As far as I understood, her parents thought they went to the Christmas concert, and when the kids did not return on time, they had no way of knowing where they were.

I know it’s about David’s, but want to mention that Leona Roberts also had sort of a strange class ring on her finger…initials wer J.A.S., although both of her ex-boyfriends had different initials..she had disappeared one day after a Z letter, from Vallejo area.

QT

Nothing that strange about Leona’s ring, QT. It was a woman’s ring not a man’s. The explanation is-

This is from the Dec. 30, 1969 article posted here-

http://www.thezodiacmansonconnection.co … berts.html

Wow, cool background info, thanks Seagull,

QT

The ring itself isn’t the strange thing, it was where the ring was when David was found that is odd. It’s bugged me for a long time now wondering why he would be holding it in his hand when shot.The only scenario I have come up with to explain the oddity of the ring is:

Did Zodiac use a similar story to the one we know he used at Lake B? Did he walk up and tell David that this was a robbery, as he had done with Bryan? Did David then remove his ring to give to Zodiac as he also, like Bryan, didn’t have cash on him?

But obviously that’s just one theory.