Owen was mentioned in the BRS report, but it was in regards to his signature.

That’s NOT Owen they are referring to, it’s a different Jim

Sorry–I glanced back at the old site where it was discussed as being him.

I think somehow, we thought it was him but it was not.

I cant guess, or speak to why Owen answered the way he did, but that’s the way he answered, exactly as you see written.

The things that stick out in my mind, are his lack of concern, ‘No biggie’. What? A serial killer is loose in your town, and targeting people your kid’s age, and it’s ‘no biggie’? Then, he later realizes(if his story is true)that he was at the LHR crime scene within seconds of a double murder of two teens, but it’s "no biggie". The thing that caught my attention the most was when I asked him of his knowledge about back roads in the SF bay area, and he said, "I never did CRUISE AROUND", the same line used by zodiac in his 1st letter to police

To be fair, people weren’t considering that there was a serial killer loose, because the letters had not started coming in shaping the character known as Z. I know there have been murders where I am from and some times, people are just not interested. I always am, but some aren’t- in fact, lots of people have a sort of tunnel vision- if it doesn’t happen to my family, it doesn’t happen.

Before he passed away,I interviewed by phone, James Owen a witness in the Lake Herman Rd Police Reports. I wanted to pick his brain and get as many details as possible,not to mention,he is a POI of mine.

RE: Interview with Lake Herman Rd witness, James Owen.

I have stated previously, that this witness should have been looked at closely by police, as a suspect, due to the fact he was at the scene of the LHR crime, during the small window when the crime happened. Due to this, and multiple inconsistencies in his statements to police, along with other circumstantial things, I feel he should have been checked out a bit closer. I am NOT calling this man the Zodiac!! I repeat, I am NOT calling this man the Zodiac, merely saying that police should have ruled him out properly.

With that being said, I have wanted to reach out to this witness for quite some time now. Since police dont seem to be in a hurry to solve the z case, and since witnesses and retired police are becoming older and dying off due to age & illness, I wanted to reach out while I had the chance and speak to Mr. Owen, with an open mind. It worked with ZODE from Southern CA. It was my hope that Mr. Owen would be able to fill in the holes regarding the 12/20/68 LHR incident. Here is the text from the interview, which took about 20 minutes(I condensed some of the material into a more easy to read format, and eliminated some of the chit chat, for an easier read). I will not state my thoughts, or opinions until I hear that of some others. The words you see from Owen are his exact words, NOT mine!

Mr. Owen, who is in his 80’s, sounds alot like my Grandfather, or what any other elderly man would sound like. He did have a slow & steady voice…and again, not to influence people, but I think Bryan Hartnell used a term… "MEASURED", to describe Zodiac’s voice. I would also use the term MEASURED to describe Mr. Owen’s voice, like a slow delivery, not excited or nervous. He sounded like he had all of his faculties, and was still pretty sharp. I learned that he is going thru an illness, but I greatly appreciate him corresponding with me.

START:

MORF13- Mr. Owen, Thanks for taking the time to speak with me. I know a lot of time has passed, and I am not sure how much you remember, but maybe you still have some information that can help my research. What was life like in Vallejo when the Z murders were going on? As a resident, were you or your Family afraid?

JO- “It was pretty quiet, there were a lot more people there then with Mare Island being open, etc”. “I wasn’t afraid for my Family. It didn’t really effect us all that much, it was just something you read in the papers, like any car wreck or murder”

MORF13- Had you always lived in the Vallejo area, or had you lived there long before the murders? (I already knew that he had previously lived there and moved back a few months before the murders started)

JO- “I had just retired from the service in 1967 and moved to Vallejo to work at Humble Oil”

MORF13- What was your position at Humble Oil, when did you start there?

JO- “1968, I was a shift supervisor, I always went in about a half hour early, that’s how I got involved in the case”. “I always left around 11:00pm”

MORF13- Tell me in your own words, how did you get brought into the Zodiac case?

JO- “I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I took Lake Herman Rd pretty often, not every night”

MORF13- Did you always see people parked there at the spot where the murders happened?

JO- no, it was not normal for me to see any cars there, let alone 2 side by side. You could really see that spot good because of the way the lights shine in there, and because it was around a bend"

MORF13- You gave your first report to police the following day after the murders. How did you come to give that statement?

JO- “As I was getting ready to leave work the next morning, a worker on the morning shift came in talking about the crime. When I left work, I passed the scene, and there were police there working, so I stopped and told them what I had seen.”

MORF13- I know that the police took multiple statements from you, the second was a few days later. What did they discuss with you?

JO- “They wanted me to drive & retrace my route”.

MORF13- So they actually drove in the car with you?

JO- "Yes"

MORF13- One thing I have a question about was regarding what you told them in the 2nd statement and not in the first statement. In the 2nd statement, you said that you thought you heard a gunshot, but you did not mention that in the first statement. Why didn’t you?

JO- “I didn’t know if it meant anything, I didn’t really know what was going on"

MORF13- So what can you tell me about hearing the shot?

JO- "when was it again? November?"

MORF13- no, it was December

JO- "It was a cool quiet night, and the leaves were off the trees, I think the sound carried well"

MORF13- Did you ever feel like you were a suspect since the police asked you to submit your guns over to them for examination, and since they had you give more than one statement?

JO- "They took my guns and had them for a couple of months and did some tests on them, then they gave them back to me”. (I should have pressed him about the extent of his gun collection)

MORF13- Did they have a warrant for your guns, or did you voluntarily give them over?

JO- “It was voluntary”.

MORF13- Did they treat you like a suspect or a witness in your opinion?

JO- “no, it was like a witness. They never interrogated me or anything like that”

MORF13- Besides testing your guns, did they ever ask you to let them take writing samples or finger prints?

JO- "no"

MORF13- How closely did you follow the case?

JO- “not much, like I said, it didn’t have any effect on my Family, it was no biggie”

MORF13- Were you Friends with anybody else that was involved in the Zodiac case such as police, or witnesses or suspects?

JO- "no"

MORF13- Did you know any of the victims?

JO- "no"

MORF13- Why do you think Zodiac was never caught?

JO- "I have no idea"

MORF13- Do you think Zodiac was somebody that the police talked to?

JO- "I have no idea"

MORF13- I am trying to get a feel for the layout of the area & the crimes. One of the attacks took place at Lake Berryessa in NAPA. Have you ever been there?

JO- “Oh yeah, I have been there. It was a place for people to picnic at and fish at, like a recreation place”

MORF13- Did you go there often?

JO- "no, just a couple times"

MORF13- In trying to get a feel for the layout of the Vallejo/Napa area, can you tell me anything interesting about the area? How familiar with the area were you?

JO- "Not very familiar, I never did cruise around the area"

MORF13- Perhaps you can help me with a theory of my own. I suspect that Zodiac may have worked at Humble Oil. This is based on clues that he left.
In one letter, Z wrote “I am mildly CEROUS” which is a misspelling of CURIOUS, but is a chemistry term used in petroleum production. Do you remember that word, or did you ever use it?

JO- “what’s the word again?”

MORF13- CEROUS, C E R O U S (I spelled it for him) a chemistry term used in petroleum production.

JO- “No, I cant remember that word”

MORF13- In the Halloween card, Zodiac placed a skeleton that left parts of words exposed that read “OIL ME”. In the same Halloween card, Zodiac drew what I believe to be a PENTENE with possibly a LEWIS DOT STRUCTURE. Are you familiar with those? If I sent one to you to look at, could you help me figure out what it means?

JO- "A pentene is a gas or hydrocarbon….base on the fact it ends in ENE…5 c’s and 12 h’s “ (he went on to break it down, but I did not catch it all)

MORF13- I am asking the people I am interviewing if they would be willing to share a photo of themselves from 1969 when the Z case was going on. Would you be willing to share a photo of yourself from back then?

JO- "No thanks"

MORF13- Thanks for your time, I appreciate your effort in helping me research teh case further.

JO- "Okay, thank you"

James Owen in his statement on the 24th December 1968 states "just before he approached the scene a vehicle passed him in the opposite direction towards Vallejo. This occurred near the Borges Ranch".
James Owen statements sound contradictory. The driver of this mystery vehicle around the relevant timeline failed to come forward. It could be entirely innocent, he/she didn’t want to get involved or didn’t notice anything, on the other hand the person might have more to lose. Of course it takes us no further in the case, other than this car was heading towards Vallejo, whereas the killer, based on Stella Borges’ timeline, was believed to have headed towards Benicia. The question remains, could James Owen have seen the couple lying on the ground, unaware of the gravity of what had just unfolded, and chose that it didn’t warrant reporting. However by the next morning was actually now aware that it was a double murder. He was ashamed that he did not call it in, remembering that a car had passed him by the Borges Ranch. He now couldn’t admit to police he had just drove past the previous night and thought it wasn’t worth calling in. That wouldn’t look good, so he effectively reversed time in his mind and effectively placed this mystery car he saw by the Borges Ranch next to the Rambler in the turnout and effectively suggest to police that this vehicle may have been involved. It may have been his way of reparation, but all it did, because of Stella Borges’ testimony, was inadvertently promote the idea that the killer headed to Benicia, and this unknown car was ultimately disregarded.

I don’t know what to make of Owen’s contradictions, which is why I feel he should have been questioned by police a bit harder as a Suspect, not just a witness. For whatever reason, he does contradict himself, and to some extent, what the crime scene clues reveal.

In the past Morf we have considered that Zodiac may have forced the couple between the two vehicles, out of sight, as James Owen passed, then shot them when he had driven by, hence the first shot. But I have now dismissed this after reading a good point made by Ray Grant. If Zodiac drew up alongside the couple and exited his car, then forced the couple from the Rambler, both doors of each vehicle would be open, and both interior lights would be on. Firstly we would have to assume Zodiac shut his door behind him before he approached the couple, totally unnecessary if you are about to commit murder and make a hasty exit. But James Owen saw no lights on and no doors open, so we would have to assume he shut his car door and shut the Rambler door, before ushering the kids behind the vehicle out of sight. But once James Owen had passed, why would Zodiac then re-open the front right passenger door, before shooting the teenagers, which is what Stella Medeiros saw and how the Rambler was found, plus Zodiac was armed with a pencil flashlight for illumination.

In the past Morf we have considered that Zodiac may have forced the couple between the two vehicles, out of sight, as James Owen passed, then shot them when he had driven by, hence the first shot. But I have now dismissed this after reading a good point made by Ray Grant. If Zodiac drew up alongside the couple and exited his car, then forced the couple from the Rambler, both doors of each vehicle would be open, and both interior lights would be on. Firstly we would have to assume Zodiac shut his door behind him before he approached the couple, totally unnecessary if you are about to commit murder and make a hasty exit. But James Owen saw no lights on and no doors open, so we would have to assume he shut his car door and shut the Rambler door, before ushering the kids behind the vehicle out of sight. But once James Owen had passed, why would Zodiac then re-open the front right passenger door, before shooting the teenagers, which is what Stella Medeiros saw and how the Rambler was found, plus Zodiac was armed with a pencil flashlight for illumination.

Good point UK, which is why I have always been skeptical of Owen’s claims. If they were being held at gunpoint as he went by, why not race out to alert the oncoming car, it would be their best chance to live. Plus, evidence shows, he forced them out thru the pass side, and the Dave was shot immediately,which does not match up with what Owen states,or hearing the shot seconds later

Could be they didn’t think they were going to actually get shot–if that’s the way it went down. But…if someone has a gun pointed at you, you might do what you are being told to do. Bryan and Cecelia did.

Imo it’s nearly impossible that Owen had heard one shot only. At the latest when Z had shot David into his head, she must have had freaked out (running away, then getting shot into her back). Earlier there might have been one warning shot, two more into the rumbler. To hear only one shot is quite unlikely, so I wonder how Owen could remember that..

– hearing one shot doesn’t make sense
– first report, no shot was mentioned at all
– second report he believes to having heard one shot (yes? no?)
– later he says the shot must have had carried well

Imo Owen could have been lying at least regarding the shot. Either he hadn’t heard anything at all or he is very well aware about multiple shots.

QT

Imo it’s nearly impossible that Owen had heard one shot only. At the latest when Z had shot David into his head, she must have had freaked out (running away, then getting shot into her back). Earlier there might have been one warning shot, two more into the rumbler. To hear only one shot is quite unlikely, so I wonder how Owen could remember that..

– hearing one shot doesn’t make sense
– first report, no shot was mentioned at all
– second report he believes to having heard one shot (yes? no?)
– later he says the shot must have had carried well

Imo Owen could have been lying at least regarding the shot. Either he hadn’t heard anything at all or he is very well aware about multiple shots.

QT

If he’s lying,why is he lying? The possibilities are troubling

Imo it’s nearly impossible that Owen had heard one shot only. At the latest when Z had shot David into his head, she must have had freaked out (running away, then getting shot into her back). Earlier there might have been one warning shot, two more into the rumbler. To hear only one shot is quite unlikely, so I wonder how Owen could remember that..

– hearing one shot doesn’t make sense
– first report, no shot was mentioned at all
– second report he believes to having heard one shot (yes? no?)
– later he says the shot must have had carried well

Imo Owen could have been lying at least regarding the shot. Either he hadn’t heard anything at all or he is very well aware about multiple shots.

QT

Why couldn’t there have been a time delay between the first warning shot, and the shots that killed the kids? In between there must’ve been instructions to exit the car, perhaps a little delay in doing so, maybe a brief discussion… and all the while Owen is driving further away, and I believe he also had his radio on.

To me, Owen is credible. Occam’s Razor would suggest that he heard the first shot, but with hunters in the area, thought nothing of it, was listening to the radio and had other things on his mind, and so on, was driving quickly out of hearing range of further shots, and so on. Let’s not forget, .22 caliber shells don’t make a tremendously loud sound in the first place. Hours later, that sound he may have heard, which meant nothing to him at the time, becomes relevant to everyone else, but is still hazy in his memory. As in, he might have heard it, he thinks so, but wasn’t paying attention.

The alternative would be that Owen was on his way to work, spontaneously stopped to kill 2 people, one at close (potentially blood-splattering) range, then drove in to work his shift, and then became a critical witness in the crime. Having drawn that attention to himself, he then goes on to commit 3 more Z murders, writes the letters, and so on. I’m not seeing it. The risk would’ve been too great that every time a Z crime happened, LE might drop in on him, routinely, inquiring about his whereabouts at the time of the crime.

What makes more sense to me is that Z was in his car ducking out of sight as Owen drove by (as were Faraday and Jensen,) then came out, saw no approaching headlights so he knew he had a couple minutes at least, fired a warning shot, some time elapsed as the kids exited the car, Faraday being the last one out, and by the time the rest of the shots were fired, Owen, radio on, thinking about something or other, was well down the road and out of hearing range.

All possibilities Marshall, but Z would be taking a huge risk shooting only seconds after a Witness went by. For all Z knew,his car could have been seen and described,plate #,etc, also, if Z ducked down, he might not have seen the passing car….it could have been a cop. More troubling to me with Owen’s statements, is that he’s standing at the crime scene of a double murder-by gun, hours after the crime,and never mentions a gunshot. Yet,3 days later, he mentions the shot? That’s troubling.

On paper, Owen looks like a standup Guy. He is a Mgr at his company, ex military,etc. At the same time, he is the ONLY person know to be at the crime scene after the Kids were seen alive,and before they were found dead. He most likely wasn’t Z, but there are some major issues in his statements

He most likely wasn’t Z, but there are some major issues in his statements

Agreed on the final conclusion.

When Z ducks down, he only has to avoid the headlights of Owen’s car. He could safely peek out his window as Owen was passing, since Owen, if he was looking at Z’s car, would’ve been looking into blackness at that point. Even when his headlights were illuminating the scene, Owen didn’t get a great look at Z’s car.

Trying to retroactively remember things that were inconsequential at the time is very imperfect. We want Owen’s recollections to be complete, precise, consistent. Well, he’s not the only person involved with this case who wasn’t able to give us that. To me it’s totally understandable.

I had lunch with a friend I hadn’t seen in months last week. You could offer me $100 if I could tell you the color of his shirt, and I wouldn’t be able to. But who knows, tomorrow I might remember something he said, which might trigger a mental image of him saying it, laughing or whatever, and I might suddenly remember his shirt color. Remember, Owen worked his shift before learning there was significance associated with those 2 cars he saw, many hours earlier.

As far as risk, no doubt it was risky, but far less so than Presidio Heights, where Z not only kills in the city, but then walks away, carrying bloody pieces of the victim’s shirt. And Z didn’t know other cars would soon be passing by, once Owen was gone, so the tight window wasn’t something he could factor.

He most likely wasn’t Z, but there are some major issues in his statements

I had lunch with a friend I hadn’t seen in months last week. You could offer me $100 if I could tell you the color of his shirt, and I wouldn’t be able to. But who knows, tomorrow I might remember something he said, which might trigger a mental image of him saying it, laughing or whatever, and I might suddenly remember his shirt color. Remember, Owen worked his shift before learning there was significance associated with those 2 cars he saw, many hours earlier.

If you are standing at the scene of a double shooting, with chalk outlines of bodies on the ground, and talk of the shooting all over the place, I would hope you would remember hearing a shot hours before. Something like forgetting a shirt color is understandable.

Morf, it sounds like we’re disagreeing on this but actually not so much, as I understand what you’re saying. If he clearly heard something he thought, at the time, was a shot, he certainly should’ve mentioned it immediately.

I don’t know the answer to this but it would be an experiment that someone could do, even today. First, at 11:14 PM on December 20, it’s pretty safe to assume his windows would’ve been rolled up. I believe his radio was on. Any guess what he listened to on his way into work (music, talk show) or how loud it may have been? Was his vehicle a newer, quiet model, or an older vehicle with a bad muffler or something? I know when I worked in a factory, several people including me, suffered some hearing loss. Morf, you spoke with him years later… Do you have any clue as to Owen’s hearing ability?

Anyway, if we figured Z would’ve let Owen’s tail lights get fairly far down the road before shooting, maybe we could guess about how far that might’ve been. Then someone could basically re-create the situation, firing a .22 pistol with another person in a moving car, with engine noises, radio, windows rolled up, and then we could see if the shot could be heard at all, let alone whether it could be heard distinctly.

If it could, then you are right. He should’ve remembered and mentioned it immediately, and this would then be a lingering problem.

My guess is, the sound, if heard at all, would be indistinct and unnoticeable to someone distracted with his own thoughts, and the other various noises surrounding him. Anyway it would be an interesting experiment and might help clarify the admittedly troubling discrepancy.

Well,we agree that a 22 handgun shot is not overly loud. On a quiet night with the right acoustics, Owen could have heard a shot. As far as what Z did or didn’t do, nothing would surprise me since Z was a nutjob