Hi Jacob thanks for the heads up, I will have a look, is there any connection between him and Fred knowing each other?, mods I’ve just realised I might have posted my long post in the wrong section sorry

The problem with Manalli was he apparently was too tall – around 6’3.

One interesting thing, for what it’s worth: Stine and Manalli may have crossed paths at SF State, since they were both in the English department. The years don’t seem to overlap, but it was a small enough department where it could have happened.

Hi Jacob thanks for the heads up, I will have a look, is there any connection between him and Fred knowing each other?, mods I’ve just realised I might have posted my long post in the wrong section sorry

No, but Cragle has done amazing work on that suspect… And don’t worry, I think you’ve posted correctly.

Hi Xcaliber, I’ve often wondered about the height descriptions, Brian hartnell/ Cecelia Shepard we’re lying down when speaking with zodiac, the paul stine witnesses were in an elavated position in a window above when they saw him at the Crime scene, the Kathleen johns incident he was sitting down, Donald foulke was also sitting down himself in a moving vehicle,please correct me if I’m wrong in any of the above, I just don’t think any of the witnesses statements can give a decent estimate of his height,

The problem with Manalli was he apparently was too tall – around 6’3.

One interesting thing, for what it’s worth: Stine and Manalli may have crossed paths at SF State, since they were both in the English department. The years don’t seem to overlap, but it was a small enough department where it could have happened.

His height is not a problem because IF he was involved in the Zodiac killings, he was not the actual killer. I do think he wrote the letters and did want to kill but didn’t have the balls to do it until a few years later. What are the odds that a personal ad addressed to Zodiac, saying "your partner is in deep real estate" would show up in the Chronicle just two days after Manalli’s death? To me that just can’t be a coincidence.

<His height is not a problem because IF he was involved in the Zodiac killings, he was not the actual killer. I do think he wrote the letters and did want to kill but didn’t have the balls to do it until a few years later. What are the odds that a personal ad addressed to Zodiac, saying "your partner is in deep real estate" would show up in the Chronicle just two days after Manalli’s death? To me that just can’t be a coincidence.>

How would a non-killer be able to include the Stine shirt pieces in the letters?

The personal ad is interesting – not sure back then in the pre-computer era someone could have placed an ad within 2 days. Maybe.

Did Manalli live in SF during the Z crimes? If so, where?

<His height is not a problem because IF he was involved in the Zodiac killings, he was not the actual killer. I do think he wrote the letters and did want to kill but didn’t have the balls to do it until a few years later. What are the odds that a personal ad addressed to Zodiac, saying "your partner is in deep real estate" would show up in the Chronicle just two days after Manalli’s death? To me that just can’t be a coincidence.>

How would a non-killer be able to include the Stine shirt pieces in the letters?

The personal ad is interesting – not sure back then in the pre-computer era someone could have placed an ad within 2 days. Maybe.

Did Manalli live in SF during the Z crimes? If so, where?

Easily. The killer gives Manalli the piece of shirt.

Placing an ad only took a day or two, so that is not an issue. And people did communicate in that way, particularly criminals.

here is a list of known addresses for Manalli:
725 N. Dardiner Ave., Rockford, IL.
532 Bancroft Ave., San Leandro, CA. (1961)
961 Union St., San Francisco, CA. (1963)
462 Holyoke St., San Francisco, CA. (1964-???)
428 8th St., Santa Rosa, CA.
1570 North St. #11, Santa Rosa, CA.
109 Frederick St., San Francisco, CA. (1973)
2353 Alpine St., Rockford, IL. (1975)
6665 Sebastopol Rd., Sebastopol, CA. (1976-where he lived at the time of his death)

The shirt pieces are not the problem.

The writing on the door at Berryessa, with only one set of footprints, is a bigger problem.

The problem with Manalli was he apparently was too tall – around 6’3.

One interesting thing, for what it’s worth: Stine and Manalli may have crossed paths at SF State, since they were both in the English department. The years don’t seem to overlap, but it was a small enough department where it could have happened.

His height is not a problem because IF he was involved in the Zodiac killings, he was not the actual killer. I do think he wrote the letters and did want to kill but didn’t have the balls to do it until a few years later. What are the odds that a personal ad addressed to Zodiac, saying "your partner is in deep real estate" would show up in the Chronicle just two days after Manalli’s death? To me that just can’t be a coincidence.

If Fred was part of a team and in close contact with the actual killer, to get the shirt piece and details of the murders to put in the letters, then why the personal ad in the first place?

It seems to me if the ad actually was relevant to Manalli and Z activity, it would indicate Fred, and the person who posted the ad (RA, perhaps Richard Anderson, who knew Fred and would’ve learned of his death) did not know who Z was, or at least, they did not know how to contact him directly.

My working theory-in-process is that Manalli wrote some of the later letters, but didn’t know who Z was. RA knew Fred and that he was writing letters pretending to be Z (or, one might say, Fred was picking up where Z left off.) Fred dies, and RA posts that ad, which basically says: Zodiac, the guy who has been writing letters under your "stage name" is now dead, FYI.

<His height is not a problem because IF he was involved in the Zodiac killings, he was not the actual killer. I do think he wrote the letters and did want to kill but didn’t have the balls to do it until a few years later. What are the odds that a personal ad addressed to Zodiac, saying "your partner is in deep real estate" would show up in the Chronicle just two days after Manalli’s death? To me that just can’t be a coincidence.>

How would a non-killer be able to include the Stine shirt pieces in the letters?

The personal ad is interesting – not sure back then in the pre-computer era someone could have placed an ad within 2 days. Maybe.

Did Manalli live in SF during the Z crimes? If so, where?

Easily. The killer gives Manalli the piece of shirt.

Placing in ad only took a day or two, so that is not an issue. And people did communicate in that way, particularly criminals.

here is a list of known addresses for Manalli:
725 N. Dardiner Ave., Rockford, IL.
532 Bancroft Ave., San Leandro, CA. (1961)
961 Union St., San Francisco, CA. (1963)
462 Holyoke St., San Francisco, CA. (1964-???)
428 8th St., Santa Rosa, CA.
1570 North St. #11, Santa Rosa, CA.
109 Frederick St., San Francisco, CA. (1973)
2353 Alpine St., Rockford, IL. (1975)
6665 Sebastopol Rd., Sebastopol, CA. (1976-where he lived at the time of his death)

Just so that you can add what year Fred Manalli lived at 428 8th St in Santa Rosa, CA,
also that he worked as a teacher at Santa Rosa JR College , both in 1966 and 1967:

Santa Rosa, California, City Directory, 1966
Manalli Fred Tch Santa Rosa JR College
428 8th St., Santa Rosa, CA

Santa Rosa, California, City Directory, 1967
Manalli Fred Tch Santa Rosa JR College
428 8th St., Santa Rosa, CA

Further info for a Fred Manalli timeline :

"He was an instructor of writing and literature courses at Santa Rosa Junior College from 1964 to 1976"

I found the info in this link, scroll down and see the "The F. S. Manilla Memorial Scholarship" diploma copy :

https://zodiackiller.forumotion.com/t44 … background

"The F. S. Manilla Memorial Scholarship
for 198"

More info on Fred Manalli :

https://zodiackiller.forumotion.com/f66-fred-manalli

From what I have read Fred Manalli was a teacher in San Quentin prison and lived in Santa Rosa.

This Farley route http://zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=4744 has taken my interest.

Dan Farley was a prison guard in San Quentin and lived in Santa Rosa. As far I know Fred Manalli had a place not too far away from the Santa Rosa Druids Hall and not too far away from where Dan’s twin, Don "Bones" William Farley worked at Forsyth Tire Company.

In the OLD BOARD there is a Manalli thread at viewtopic.php?f=46&t=895

traveller1st, Subject: Re: Fred Manalli Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:08 am

More Finnegan’s Wake matches from the full list of Zodiac’s misspellings as compiled by Deoxys (link supplied by Entropy)

When Lapac walks backwords he’s darkest horse in Capalisoot (3 instances in total)

saved from the drohnings they might oncounter, untill his cubid long, to hide in dry (1 instance in total)

moves in vicous cicles yet remews the same; the drain rats bless his offals while the park birds curse his floodlights; (1 instance in total)

come, my horse delayed, nom num, the substance of the tale of the evangelical bussybozzy (1 instance in total, there is another but it’s not in context of the word busy)

comeho to roo. Comehome to roo, wee chickchilds doo, when the wildworewolf’s abroad. (2 instances in total)

(Chorus) Woohoo, what’ll she doo!

A bone, a pebble, a ramskin; chip them, chap them, cut them up allways; leave them to terracook in the muttheringpot (1 instance in total)

Wold Forrester Farley who, in deesperation of deispiration at the diasporation of his diesparation, was found of the round of the sound of the lound of
the.Lukkedoerendunandurraskewdylooshoofermoyportertooryzooysphalnabortansporthaokansakroidverjkapakkapuk. (1 instance in total)

My head hurts

Ok correct me if I’m wrong (my memory isn’t as good as it used to be) but weren’t some of the SRHM observed getting into a van? And Manalli owned a van. Also, from what I remember his grandmother was sent to prison in Illinois, right? It had to do with abortions, I think. So the local police want to spare his family anguish regarding being a murder suspect when his grandmother was a con who spent time in prison for murder?

Didn’t Z have a huge beef with Billy Graham and his abortions…any way to link these two? Thanks.

My head hurts

ditto lol