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Couple who enquired about the car

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(@cragle)
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Is it known if a description or identity or the couple who enquired about her car whilst in the lot the day after the the attack was ever released ??

 
Posted : February 28, 2019 7:36 pm
Richard Grinell
(@richard-grinell)
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Reed and Son Towing Service would later receive a visit from police inquiring about the missing keys to the 1957 Chevrolet of Kathleen Johns, after they were thought to have been spotted by an officer on the back seat of the car shortly after the fire had been extinguished, but no keys were located. In the police record it was stated "’Mr Reed of ‘Reed and Son Towing Services’ advised that he personally had not observed any keys in the vehicle when he towed the vehicle in from Highway 132, just east of Bird Road." However, Mr Reed would go on to say that in the afternoon of March 23rd 1970 a man and a woman, he assumed were the owners of the vehicle, had asked about Johns station wagon, but was not certain whether or not they had taken any keys. The couple were never identified. Earlier "Kathleen gathered up Jennifer and got into the man’s car. Just as they were pulling out, she noticed that the lights to her car were still on and remembered that the keys were still in the ignition. The man smiled, went back to her car, snapped off the lights, and pocketed the keys." But the bigger question is, why didn’t Kathleen Johns ask the man for her car keys, if, as she claimed, he was friendly at this juncture, and if the abductor of Johns had "snapped off the lights, and pocketed the keys", why would any keys have been present in the burnt out vehicle, unless the abductor placed them there before he burnt her Chevrolet.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/

“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.

 
Posted : March 1, 2019 3:48 am
relentlessz
(@relentlessz)
Posts: 186
Estimable Member
 

Did Kathleen Johns ever describe the car the man drove who picked her up? I have never seen a mention of his type of vehicle.

 
Posted : March 1, 2019 1:12 pm
Quicktrader
(@quicktrader)
Posts: 2598
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Highway 132 near Patterson, Modesto:

‘Mrs. Kathleen Johns, then living at 647 Campus Way, San Bernardino, left her home at 7 pm with her 10-month-old daughter Jennifer for the trip to Petaluma where her mother lived. She drove north on Interstate 5 and onto Highway 99 just before Bakersfield, through Fresno, Merced and Modesto, where she swung left onto Highway 132, a rarely used road. In her rearview mirror she noticed a car she seemed to have picked up on her tail in Modesto. She later recalled that it was ‘junky’ and wasn’t as new as a ’68 model. This happened at approximately midnight: Kathleen then attempted to let the car pass her as abruptly the driver behind began to blink his lights and honk his horn. He drove up alongside Kathleen’s 1957 maroon-and-white Chevrolet station wagon and yelled through his passenger window that her left rear wheel was wobbling. Kathleen, who was seven months pregnant, was very concerned about stopping on a lightly traveled road at night with a stranger. She waited until she was close to Interstate 5 to stop. Kathleen pulled off to the edge of Maze Road near Interstate 5, and the light-colored car parked on the shoulder in back of her. A ‘clean-shaven and neatly dressed man’ got out with a lug wrench in his left hand and approached her, gesturing toward the back of her car. She later described the man as being around 30 years old. He seemed like a reliable person, she later told Graysmith. Nobody that looked in any way freaky. He was that kind of clean-cut. ‘Your left rear wheel is wobbling’ he said in a soft voice, leaning down on her door and looking into her car. ‘I’ll tighten your lugs if you’d like…don’t worry, I’ll be glad to fix it for you.’. Kathleen could hear him working on the wheel, but he was out of her view. After a while he stood up and came around to her window. ‘OK, that should do it’, he said and waved and returned to his car. He then went ahead and pulled back on the freeway, Kathleen recalled. She had driven only five or six car lengths before her whole rear tire spun off, crashing and banging, into the weeds at the side of the road. She turned off the engine, leaving the keys in the ignition, and got out of the car to see what had happened. Meanwhile, the stranger backed up to the front of Kathleen’s car, got out, and ran up to her. For the first time she got a good look at him as he crossed in front of her headlights. ‘Oh no, the trouble’s worse than I thought’, he said. ‘I’ll give you a ride to the service station’. Kathleen noticed that not more than a quarter of a mile away was an ARCO service station. She agreed to the ride, later recalling that she ‘really wouldn’t have gotten in his car if she had had any bad vibes about it’. Kathleen gathered up her baby and got in the stranger’s car. Just as they were pulling out, she noticed that her lights were still on and remembered she had left the keys in the ignition. The man smiled, went back to her car, turned off the lights and pocketed the keys. Then the stranger drove away from her car. When he approached the ARCO station, he didn’t slow down. When he missed it, she really didn’t think much about it. She didn’t say anything. When he passed the next exit, it dawned on her something wasn’t right. As long as he wasn’t talking, she neither was. They went down several more exits before he got off, and then she just didn’t say anything. He was doing the driving. The man started down a rocky, deserted farm road. Nothing was said for a long time. His windbreaker was open and she could see the white of his shirt glowing dully in the moonlight. The man started to pull over to the roadside and then sped back up several times. Kathleen thought he was going to make a pass at her. She was the one to finally break the silence. ‘Do you always go around helping people on the road like this?’, she asked sarcastically. ‘When I get through with them they don’t need any help’, said the man. After about 30 minutes, he turned his head to look at her and said: ‘You know you’re going to die. You know I’m going to kill you…I’m going to throw the baby out’. The man drove Kathleen through a maze of winding lanes, rarely speaking but occasionally looking over at her and repeating either ‘You know I’m going to kill you’ or ‘You know you’re going to die’. Kathleen knew he meant it. She said that altogether he drove down those back country roads for two or three hours. She tried to remember everything she could about this man. First she noticed that the stranger’s shoes had been shining so brightly that they reflected the yellow interior lights of the car. ‘They weren’t boot types. They were like Navy shoes. His general appearance, come to think of it, was Navy’. He was dressed in a dark blue-black nylon windbreaker over black woolen bell-bottom pants. The black, thick-rimmed glasses he wore were held firmly in place by a thin band of elastic. His chin was traced with scars of some past acne infection. ‘I got the distinct impression that he might not be aware of what he was doing. I think he could even be the man next door and might not know it was himself. Obviously he was sick‘. Kathleen took in everything she could about the man and his car. The car’s interior was messy, with papers, books and clothes strewn about the front and back seats and even on the dashboard. The clothing was mostly a man’s, but mixed in were some small T-shirts with patterns such as a child age eight to 12 would wear. She also noticed a black, four-celled flashlight with a rubber grip. After a while longer, the driver accidentally started up a freeway onramp from the isolated road. Just as he skid to a halt, Kathleen scooped up her baby and fled from the car, leaping into an irrigation ditch surrounded by tall grass in the middle of a field. She had to lay on top of little Jennifer to keep her from crying. The driver got out and searched for her with a flashlight. Within moments, a semi-truck was passing by on the freeway and caught the bizarre scene in its headlights. The driver got out and asked ‘What the hell is going on?’. Kathleen’s abductor jumped into his car and sped off. Kathleen refused a ride from the truck driver, waiting for a woman to drive by and give her a ride to the closest police station. It was there that she recognized her abductor as Zodiac from the composite drawing made following the Stine murder. Kathleen’s car was found completely burned out in a different spot from where she left it. The stranger had had to reattach the tire to the car and drive it to its new location. Zodiac did not acknowledge this incident for months. He finally mentioned Kathleen in her baby in a threat within his July 24, 1970 letter. It was after this letter was received that Kathleen Johns went into hiding and changed her name. Robert Graysmith searched for her for years and finally found her in 1982.’

Think it somewhere was written that the car had a speedometer and that the interior lights were not yellow but green (later KJ interview?). Not sure, however.

Is there any report from the driver? He actually must have had seen the car model, if not even the plates or parts of it?

Various statements of the police reports:

From the Patterson police report:

‘..at about 0230 hours.’
The distance from 647, San Bernardino, to Modesto is ~385 miles..at 80-90 mph she had arrived approximately at the reported time (‘at about 2345 hours’). Her assailant then messing up and driving around with her for approximately two hours. All of the previous is consistent with what she had actually reported.

While driving around, the assailant did not leave the area (‘driving on country roads’). It could be an indication that he had known or been living the area, did not want to drive a long way home after committing the crime.

‘..vehicle was about 2 miles east of innerstate 5 [sic!].’
‘..fingerprints be taken as the San Francisco Police Department had on file latest prints of the Zodiac.’ [palm prints?]

From the Stanislaus County police report (20 minutes later):

‘..when she observed a late model vehicle, light tan in color, no other description..’
‘..she was not sure where the vehicle had been stopped.’
‘..WMA, approx. 30 yrs., 5-9, 160 lbs., drk hair wearing blk rimmed plastic glasses, wearing a drk. ski jacket and drk. blue bell-bottomed pants..’ [nothing about shiny shoes]
‘..drove around..one hour to 1 1/2 hours..’
‘..stated the suspect merely closed the door that the complainant had opened in order to leave the vehicle, and then had driven away.’

From San Joaquin report (50 minutes later; regarding the fire):

‘..vehicle parked on Highway.’ [car was, most likely, never moved]
‘A late model vehicle, tan in color. No further description.’

From a different San Joaquin report):

‘..a mile ahead of them pulled over to the side of the road, got out of his [!] vehicle and attempted to flag them down (..). Neither of these subjects could furnish any type of description of the driver of this white 1959 Buick.’
‘..since it apparently took place in the same general area as the incident with victim JOHNS.’
‘..HORTON and BEAMAN..’ ‘..Frederick BEAMAN’s residence, 300 Kerr Street, Modesto, however, was informed by his mother, witness Teresa WATSON, that her son has been gone from the residence since Sunday evening, March 22, 1970, and she has not heard from him since that time.’ ‘..was supposed to be staying with a friend by the name of Bill HORTON’ ‘..witness William HORTON..’
‘..keys which Officer BAUER had observed on the seat of the vehicle shortly after the fire had been extinguished..’ ‘..there were no keys found in the vehicle.’ ‘..had not observed any keys in the vehicle.. [Mr. Reed, tow service]’
‘Mr. REED advised that on March 23, 1970 during the daytime that a man and a lady had come to the Reed and Son Tow Service, and had inquired about the victim’s vehicle (..) and advised that these two subjects could have possibly obtained the keys from the vehicle, however, he did not know. Mr. Reed advised that he assumed these two people were the owners of the vehicle.’

http://www.zodiackillerthemansonconnect … ports.html

QT

*ZODIACHRONOLOGY*

 
Posted : March 1, 2019 1:32 pm
relentlessz
(@relentlessz)
Posts: 186
Estimable Member
 

Thank you QT.

 
Posted : March 1, 2019 6:00 pm
(@claypooles)
Posts: 353
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Thanks, very interesting elements.

From what I understand, Z went back to Johns’ car, left his own and drove hers to a different location, then he had to go back to his own car in order to flee. Why the hell did he do that?

 
Posted : March 1, 2019 8:40 pm
(@cragle)
Posts: 767
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Topic starter
 

Perhaps to dispose of any possible evidence. If he loosen the wheel and touched the interior of the car, after the Stine murder he was probably paranoid about fingerprints. This could be also be the reason for the fake clues etc comments. “the lady doth protest too much“

 
Posted : March 1, 2019 11:00 pm
(@claypooles)
Posts: 353
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Yes, but why move Johns’ car, and how did he get back to his own car afterwards?

 
Posted : March 1, 2019 11:45 pm
Marshall
(@marshall)
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Yes, but why move Johns’ car, and how did he get back to his own car afterwards?

One possible reason is that after Johns escaped, she would have reported the location of her car to the police, and they would’ve dispatched someone to secure it. The abductor was in a race to get to it first, and then move it somewhere so he could have time to destroy it, and any evidence it may have contained. Burning the car to destroy evidence was probably part of the plan, but had he killed or otherwise secured Johns, there would have been more time, as John’s disappearance, and location of her car, would not have been known to the police. John’s escape turned it into a race to that location.

Just my thoughts on the matter…

 
Posted : March 2, 2019 1:21 am
(@cragle)
Posts: 767
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Topic starter
 

Just but TWO People enquired about the car the next day. Hence my original question ;)

 
Posted : March 2, 2019 1:44 am
(@claypooles)
Posts: 353
Reputable Member
 

Yes, but why move Johns’ car, and how did he get back to his own car afterwards?

One possible reason is that after Johns escaped, she would have reported the location of her car to the police, and they would’ve dispatched someone to secure it. The abductor was in a race to get to it first, and then move it somewhere so he could have time to destroy it, and any evidence it may have contained. Burning the car to destroy evidence was probably part of the plan, but had he killed or otherwise secured Johns, there would have been more time, as John’s disappearance, and location of her car, would not have been known to the police. John’s escape turned it into a race to that location.

Just my thoughts on the matter…

And so LE would have found the killer’s car instead of Johns’, which doesn’t make the matter better for him. So I guess he kinda hid his car not very far from Johns’ car and ran his lungs out to it to take it to another place and burn it down. And then he had to go all be way back to his own car, hoping it wasn’ found by the police in the meantime.

EDIT: Found this on zodiaccyphers.com, "Another thing that did not happen that night, are stories that her vehicle was found burnt out at a different location to where she was abducted. This is a false representation, borne from the book of Robert Graysmith.
If we take a look at passages from the ‘Zodiac’ book, it states that Kathleen Johns was offered a lift ‘not more than a quarter of a mile away was an ARCO service station’. Kathleen, according to Robert Graysmith’s book had been pulled over by the edge of Maze Road near Interstate 5. Deputy Lovett was incorrect in stating the vehicle was found 2 miles east of Interstate 5, but corrected in Detective Bauer’s report indicating the burnt vehicle was located west of Interstate 5, further confirmed by Mr Reed from ‘Reed and Son Towing Services’ stating he "towed the vehicle in from Highway 132, just east of Bird Road".
East of Bird Road is west of Interstate 5. See here on Google Maps. If we drop down to street level we see the vineyards that Kathleen Johns eventually escaped into, meaning she actually ended up in very close proximity to where she was abducted.​"

 
Posted : March 2, 2019 2:40 am
Richard Grinell
(@richard-grinell)
Posts: 717
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The car was not moved that night, it was found burnt out at the exact point she was abducted from. Any claims that Kathleen Johns car was moved is fiction.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/

“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.

 
Posted : March 2, 2019 2:46 am
(@cragle)
Posts: 767
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

The car was not moved that night, it was found burnt out at the exact point she was abducted from. Any claims that Kathleen Johns car was moved is fiction.

But did a male and female enquire about it ??

 
Posted : March 2, 2019 3:03 am
Richard Grinell
(@richard-grinell)
Posts: 717
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Yes, according to Mr Reed of ‘Reed and Son Towing Services’. But the bigger question, is why did her abductor take her on a two hour excursion of Tracy, California, yet she escaped into a vineyard within 300-400 meters from where she was originally abducted. Truth be told, the story is highly dubious.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/

“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.

 
Posted : March 2, 2019 3:22 am
(@sandy-betts)
Posts: 1372
Noble Member
 

The car was not moved that night, it was found burnt out at the exact point she was abducted from. Any claims that Kathleen Johns car was moved is fiction.

I agree with Richard totally!

Plus it makes no sense for her abductor to take the time put the tire back on and to move her car just set fire to it , that certainly would have drawn attention to the fire as the abductor was headed back to his car? Chances are he could have been caught if he took that chance.

He could have easily wiped his prints off of her car like he thought he had on Stine’s cab. I believe that he was so angry at her for out smarting him and getting away, he punished her by burning her car.

From what I have heard , Kathleen Johns and her husband went to the junk yard to see if there was anything they could retrieve.

The mention of 132 being a lonely rd, it was and still is a well traveled rd during the day time, less at night. There were a couple of gas stations on that road, that should say something about traffic on that rd. Joe Stine worked at a station just off of 132.

The Johns police report lacked many things that she told the reporting officer. Instead of that officer protecting her and her baby at the police station, he took her across the street and hid her in closed restaurant all by her self? I not only don’t trust his reporting, I wouldn’t trust him to watch my dog!

 
Posted : March 2, 2019 3:49 am
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