Well one thing is not open to argument that we can say we do know for sure is this: The one thing we can say we know with certainty is that we simply cannot know with any certainty whether Zodiac was or wasn’t Kathy’s abductor.

Myself, I still am undecided in my opinion whether Z was responsible or not. Being a proponent of Lawrence Kane as Zodiac it would be in my interest to state that I believe Zodiac was her abductor because Kathy apparently picked Kane out as the man who gave her the rather interesting ride. But hand picking what I want to believe because it may support or help further an agenda I have will do nothing but lead to seeing what you want to see, and believing what you want to believe as long as it fits with a far bigger and general agenda.

So I just don’t know. Some things make me think possibly could be Z, other things make me think very unlikely to have been Z. I think both sides of this argument has merit to it, both for and against the notion of Zodiac being behind the incident.

True Kathleen did pick out a man whom she was told was Kane. I was told the same thing, although I argued about the name being Kane , because I had the license plate number ran of the car I saw him in and it was owned by a R.H. person from the Bay area. Eventually Harvey Hines convinced me the man I was being harassed by was Larry Kane.
I went as far as going to the post office in Lake Tahoe a few yrs ago ,where I knew Kane had a po box. I spoke to the postmaster there and asked him if the picture I had was in fact Kane ? I was told no. Shortly after that I was told Kane had died, yet I continued to see the man who’s face K. John’s and I picked out of that line up.

Even though there was nothing Zodiac wrote that couldn’t be found in the small articles, she gave what I think is the best description of Zodiac , or at least the man I believe is Zodiac. She also mentioned the band he wore on his head, (to hold his glasses on) that was not in any paper. I can’t think of any other witness who saw him well enough to notice that he has a lazy eye . I found out about the lazy eye from a detective who was working with me, who got that bit of information from Sacramento DOJ. What would the odds be that she described the man I got away from in Vallejo in 1968 ( Other than his hair doo) , the same man who has to be the person that stole parts of my clothes line in Napa, then puts the Lake B costume in my brown car, with in one or two days of the stabbing at Lake B.?
In spite of what people think of Darlene’s sister Pam, not only she but two other members of her family ID’d the man I have as the man Darlene was afraid of.

When I saw him in 1968, he had on a puffy jacket which made him look rather chubby. In 1988 he looked about 175# to 190 #. I have male friend who is 205# that I would have guessed at 175#, so don’t let the weight that she guessed be the reason you don’t believe her. She also described the way he spoke , it is the same way my suspect talks. So either it is one heck of a coincidence that Kathleen got a ride from a man who looks and sounds like the man who has been stalking and harassing me and others, who has claimed to be thee Zodiac , or he is truly the Zodiac and is having his freedom, because people don’t want to believe he could be.

Sandy, you’re saying that Kathleen Johns supposedly reported that her attacker had a lazy eye? That’s certainly of real importance if true, particularly if you believe her attacker was Zodiac. Nobody described Zodiac as having a lazy eye but we do have that weird adjustment to Zodiac’s left eye in the revised Stine composite sketch. Nobody knows for sure if that was a real feature that was identified but I do think Sgt. Fouke would have been in a position to recognize some eye abnormality and I think there is a genuine question of whether his input was actually factored into the revised sketch. Do you know which eye Johns said that about? Kane’s eye issue was his left eye and due to his brain injury, correct?

I don’t think anyone questions that Johns was abducted and was genuinely traumatized by her experience. Who wouldn’t be? There may be some questions about her as an eyewitness but something like a lazy eye would really not require an expert witness. If she reported it independently of any suspect consideration, I for one would believe her.

Sandy, you’re saying that Kathleen Johns supposedly reported that her attacker had a lazy eye? That’s certainly of real importance if true, particularly if you believe her attacker was Zodiac. Nobody described Zodiac as having a lazy eye but we do have that weird adjustment to Zodiac’s left eye in the revised Stine composite sketch. Nobody knows for sure if that was a real feature that was identified but I do think Sgt. Fouke would have been in a position to recognize some eye abnormality and I think there is a genuine question of whether his input was actually factored into the revised sketch. Do you know which eye Johns said that about? Kane’s eye issue was his left eye and due to his brain injury, correct?

I don’t think anyone questions that Johns was abducted and was genuinely traumatized by her experience. Who wouldn’t be? There may be some questions about her as an eyewitness but something like a lazy eye would really not require an expert witness. If she reported it independently of any suspect consideration, I for one would believe her.

This mans lazy eye is on his right side, but his left eye has a squint. I didn’t notice it in 1968 because he contorted his face when he saw me looking at him. In 1988 I didn’t notice it either, until I was told that Zodiac had a lazy eye, it was the next time he came into my work to watch me, that I got right in his face and apologized to him for having to put some dirty drinking glasses in front of him. His eye swirled around like the actor Marty Feldman’s eye, it was then that I felt for sure I was looking at the Zodiac. He also has a slightly paralyzed face, that is why he talks with a slight drawl ( not a southern drawn ). He talks in a slow way, unlike anyone I have ever heard before . Another witness to this same man was a young teen in Vallejo late 80’s, who cut school and was reading the Zodiac paper back at Bob’s Big Boy. A older man came in and asked the boy if he liked the book and said he was a fan of thee Zodiac. Two days later the teen went back to Bobs’ Big Boy and a waitress gave him a paper bag with a Zodiac book in it, it was from the older man. The boy opened the book and on the back of the cover was written : I thought you might like an autographed copy. It was signed "Zodiac". The teen thought is was the old man playing a game, but when he found the picture that I had on Ryan Olisen’s site late 90’s( not sure of that spelling )"The Zodiac Vortex". He contacted Tom V and asked if I worked at Bob’s B.B. ? He told Tom the story about the man, Tom forward it to me . The boy said that he didn’t believe 90 percent of what I wrote until he saw the picture. For me the odds are getting better that this is a very good suspect. No one else has been shot at by their suspect either have they ? I asked the boy ( Now a grown man ) if he still had that book , because I would like to see it ? He said no, he had moved many times after that and had no idea what happened to that book. I am on the look out for any yellow book with that writing in it at used book stores , I could use some help in finding that book, so please keep an eye out for it !

The thing about Mr Kane is, and I say this from experience, he’s just so difficult to locate or tie to a specific area any certain time or to get FBI records for in FOIA requests and even just get basic background/family info for. The reason for that is he went by so many names using several DOB’s that it feels like your trying to track a phantom, and failing 8/10 times!

I mean Kane in and of himself is difficult enough and has in days gone by, drove me nuts tyring to research this claim or that fact about him but Kane himself is only half the problem. Then you have people come along and swear blind that Harvey Hines did ask Kathy J to look at a photo line up of 12 (or could even be 16, not 100% sure) suspects faces and claim that all 12 of the photo’s were of the same man, Larry Kane and turned to Kathy and asked "Do you recognise any of these faces as resembling the man who abducted you, Miss Johns?" And as Kathy sat quietly with a few "Hmmmmm. Ummmmmm, hmmmmm" Harvey was waiting to see if she’d pick Lawrence Kane out of the line up, which according to some, was utterly impossible not to lol.

I mean come on! Ok even if we consider Harvey did construct a photo line up with 12 images of Kane, wouldn’t Kathy be likely to object "Mr Hines, why have you given me 12 photo’s of the same man? Isn’t that cheating?" Lol

See that isn’t fair Sand, Kane never once stalked me and I have always been quite offended at that (Lol). If he had have tried stalking me, i’d have quickly opened the door and demanded "Larry, I can see you crouched behind that bush, come out from there at once! Please, come in and sit down….Sit, …SIT! There we are. Now Mr Kane, I have a few questions…." and at this point the interrogating ends due to his pulling a pistol and it’s now me hid behind the bush.

The one picture that we picked out could not be Larry Kane, he only looked somewhat like him. The man we both chose is still alive today. The picture we picked, that man had a more round face and his eye was much worse. Most of the pictures I have seen on line of Kane, are not the picture that we picked. Pam was the one that said that all of the pictures in the line up were Kane. (Do we know that to be a fact ? )Only the one picture stood out, the others didn’t look like the man K.J. and I chose. It was a lot like Kane’s arrest picture, only the eye was worse. Even I know that you don’t do a line up with all faces being the same person.

Zodiac WANTED the woman to survive and to TELL THE WORLD that he looked EXACTLY like the wanted poster.

He had already said (something like) I ONLY LOOK LIKE THE POSTER WHEN I DO MY THING. OTHERWISE I LOOK ‘ENTIRLE’ DIFFERENT.

SO, if everyone is running around looking for someone who looks like the wanted poster, they will never find him.

I have a question. I believe it was stated in one of the Graysmith novels that Kathleen Johns said there were children’s clothing in Zodiac’s rather messy car. I did not read this in any of the police reports. Can anyone substantiate Graysmith’s claim with any authoritative document? Thanks.

Zodiac WANTED the woman to survive and to TELL THE WORLD that he looked EXACTLY like the wanted poster.

He had already said (something like) I ONLY LOOK LIKE THE POSTER WHEN I DO MY THING. OTHERWISE I LOOK ‘ENTIRLE’ DIFFERENT.

SO, if everyone is running around looking for someone who looks like the wanted poster, they will never find him.

Then why not tell her he was Zodiac or make the slightest hint he was?

The man who took her on this ride didn’t know she would see a wanted poster right away (in order to tell about it), or at all for that matter.

If what you say is true, he would have mentioned something, just in case…imo.

Zodiac WANTED the woman to survive and to TELL THE WORLD that he looked EXACTLY like the wanted poster.

He had already said (something like) I ONLY LOOK LIKE THE POSTER WHEN I DO MY THING. OTHERWISE I LOOK ‘ENTIRLE’ DIFFERENT.

SO, if everyone is running around looking for someone who looks like the wanted poster, they will never find him.

Then why not tell her he was Zodiac or make the slightest hint he was?

The man who took her on this ride didn’t know she would see a wanted poster right away (in order to tell about it), or at all for that matter.

If what you say is true, he would have mentioned something, just in case…imo.

Hmmm, that is a very good point, Tahoe.

G

Zodiac WANTED the woman to survive and to TELL THE WORLD that he looked EXACTLY like the wanted poster.

He had already said (something like) I ONLY LOOK LIKE THE POSTER WHEN I DO MY THING. OTHERWISE I LOOK ‘ENTIRLE’ DIFFERENT.

SO, if everyone is running around looking for someone who looks like the wanted poster, they will never find him.

Then why not tell her he was Zodiac or make the slightest hint he was?

The man who took her on this ride didn’t know she would see a wanted poster right away (in order to tell about it), or at all for that matter.

If what you say is true, he would have mentioned something, just in case…imo.

Hmmm, that is a very good point, Tahoe.

G

Thought about this overnight, and the answer might be quite simple.

Many researchers have commented on the fact that Z did not claim the KJ abduction as his own deed until several months later.

It is entirely possible that he had intended to take credit soon afterwards, but did not see the need, since KJ herself made the connection for him.

It couldn’t have worked out better, if that was the intent, since the papers were shouting Zodiac the next day, he didn’t need to do anything to spread the word that the Zodiac Killer was still out and about.

G

^^But he didn’t know KJ would see it.

^^But he didn’t know KJ would see it.

That’s the point.

He didn’t need to know.

G

Zodiac WANTED the woman to survive and to TELL THE WORLD that he looked EXACTLY like the wanted poster.

He had already said (something like) I ONLY LOOK LIKE THE POSTER WHEN I DO MY THING. OTHERWISE I LOOK ‘ENTIRLE’ DIFFERENT.

SO, if everyone is running around looking for someone who looks like the wanted poster, they will never find him.

Then why not tell her he was Zodiac or make the slightest hint he was?

The man who took her on this ride didn’t know she would see a wanted poster right away (in order to tell about it), or at all for that matter.

If what you say is true, he would have mentioned something, just in case…imo.

Zodiac is smart enough to realize if he took a woman and her child for a long, frightening ride, and slowed down, or stopped, so that she would have the opportunity to escape, she would likely go directly to a police station, where a Wanted Poster of himself would be displayed. She would see it and freak.

Or, if she just went home, he would repeat his act with another woman, until someone went to the police and recognized the Wanted Poster as himself. Simple, really.

Zodiac is smart enough to realize if he took a woman and her child for a long, frightening ride, and slowed down, or stopped, so that she would have the opportunity to escape, she would likely go directly to a police station, where a Wanted Poster of himself would be displayed. She would see it and freak.

Or, if she just went home, he would repeat his act with another woman, until someone went to the police and recognized the Wanted Poster as himself. Simple, really.

He might have been smart enough. It’s a nice little sub theory but I wonder is it likely or do we just think it because we’re creative enough to conceive of it after the fact? Tidy, yes but not simple because I think it would need to be explored against the other aspects and speculated motives regarding what happened in this incident. To see if any of those conflict with it’s plausibility. That would be my next step if it were something I had thought of. Simply put, I would test it to see if it holds up.