Wow! You were quick mate, exactly right. I said I didn’t know where you’d got it, re-read the thread, saw you posted the source, changed my post to offer you praise, "well found", and then filed it again, all in about a 2 minute window.
You’ll be a very fine detective.
(I shall edit it again to say I think you made up the police report in a minute. You’ll be none the wiser.)

Wow! You were quick mate, exactly right. I said I didn’t know where you’d got it, re-read the thread, saw you posted the source, changed my post to offer you praise, "well found", and then filed it again, all in about a 2 minute window.
You’ll be a very fine detective.
(I shall edit it again to say I think you made up the police report in a minute. You’ll be none the wiser.)

Lol. I did laugh out loud, literally too lol. If I were a detective and faced with someone like Zodiac, I think it wouldn’t be long before my professionalism was called into question. If Zodiac wrote to me persoanlly saying "Hey blue pig, I was in the park…" or "The police could have caught me last night if they had searched the park properly" and told me "Police shall never catch me as I have been too clever for them" & "Like I have always said, i’m crackproof", my reply would probably appear in the chronicle something like…

A S.F.P.D Detective has responded to Zodiac’s claims by saying "F**K YOU! Who do you think you are!! Your no criminal f*ng genius, your just f*ng lucky that a dispatcher gave the wrong description out you stuck up P**ck. Come call me a ‘pig’ in person to my face! Come on! You and me, outisde!! I would never normally hit a man with glasses but for you i’ll happily make an exception. Phone in and tell me where to meet you, I will….."
It was at this point in today press conference that the Detective was forcably removed from the room by uniformed collegues.

Lol. I really think i’d take it personally if I were one of the offical people tasked with apprehending him, Kidna like Dave Reichert did with The Green River Case. Have to admire that man for his sheer determination and persistance in catching Gary Ridgway. Dave became emotional when recounting his pursuit of the unknown suspect for more than almost 20 years, and shed a few tears when recalling the victims. If I were hunting Zodiac, I would probably cry aswel, feeling sorry for myself. I’d probably end up drinking methelated spirits under a bridge somewhere lol. I got to give it to Z, he really knew how to push peoples buttons with his comments. But the ironic thing is, and this is something a lotof people don’t agree with me on, but I think a vast amount of what Zodiac said was written just to piss people off and get their blood boiling. I think he wrote most of his egotistical claims and arrogant remarks with ‘tounge in cheek’.

Hey Smithy, I read something yesterday that, untill reading it, I hadn’t really noticed but found it interesting and wan’t your opinion on it. It’s not for this thread so i’ll start a new one in the appropriate thread. If you do not give me your opinion on it I shall ‘Do my thing’! (By that, I mean sign off in protest lol).

What? Where? Have you signed off?
I agree, remaining properly dispassionate is the preserve of professionals. (Posh way of saying I’d be talking the law into my own hands, reacting emotionally, and entirely committed to chasing my POI into the ground. If I had one). Just as well we aren’t members of LE…
I’ve looked for a new thread, not seen one yet.

What? Where? Have you signed off?
I agree, remaining properly dispassionate is the preserve of professionals. (Posh way of saying I’d be talking the law into my own hands, reacting emotionally, and entirely committed to chasing my POI into the ground. If I had one). Just as well we aren’t members of LE…
I’ve looked for a new thread, not seen one yet.

Its in ‘Zodiac Theories’. Just recently posted it.

PS. I have not gone over it for typo’s etc cause it’s fairly long and it’s almost 3am over here lol.

Lets not forget that Zodiac made contact with K Johns months after that ride. He sent her a Halloween card that she gave to Avery, he misplaced it. Zodiac let K.Johns know that he knew she had another daughter. He had to be watching her to know that, I would think ?
She knew enough not to react to what he was telling her, in other words, she didn’t show fear and that was one of the main things that he wanted/ needed . He enjoys causing fear, that gives him the feeling of power over his victims. He kept driving and taunting her, waiting for her to beg for her life. Thank goodness he made a wrong turn and she was able to escape. I believe that she got the best description of Zodiac than anyone else. If it wasn’t for her description, I would not have recognized the man I was waiting on in Jan 1990 as Zodiac. He even had on the band she had described, the only difference was that he had shaved his head. Everything else was spot on! Getting his license plate ran that night, was the beginning of a never ending nightmare for me. Before that night, it was just phone calls and sometimes being followed, little presents left now and then, not knowing for sure who my secret admirer was at that time.
I have no doubt that Zodiac was the man who gave Kathleen and her baby that long drive. Ironically I drove through Modesto tonight and thought about her, wondering what she was thinking as she past so many gas stations along the way, with an obviously mentally deranged man behind the wheel.

Lets not forget that Zodiac made contact with K Johns months after that ride. He sent her a Halloween card that she gave to Avery, he misplaced it….

Sandy, sorry, but I don’t believe that bit of folklore, for the simple reason that Avery was looking for something (anything) to publish to keep the Zodiac pot boiling and selling newspapers, at the time. I don’t think there’s a chance he would have "lost" something as saleable as that.

KJ probably did get something…wouldn’t surprise me. Addresses were published in papers. But, I cannot come to any conclusions having not seen it. Too many crazies out there.

Right!

I had been on the fence about this whole incident for some time until I came across some archived conversations on Voigt’s old message board. Judith Chapman, author of ‘Tit Willow’ and, from what I gather, someone who is generally considered trustworthy and a positive force in the community, claims she interviewed Carol Stine (sister of Paul) a few years back. A startling revelation from this interview was that Carol Stine claimed on the same night as the KJ incident, she was driving to her mother’s birthday party along highway 132 when a man tried to get her to pull over in a rather aggressive manner. Sensibly she ignored and outran him. The consensus on that forum was that, given that Joe Stine had issued a challenge to Zodiac a few months previously, there is good reason to believe Zodiac would try to target members of the Stine family and when better to predict family movement than on a family birthday?

I cannot find any mention of Carol Stine reporting this to the police which I do find a bit odd. I can’t say whether I’d want to know everything I could about Zodiac in her situation or want to forget about it completely, so there is the possibility that she avoided stories such as KJ’s and ultimately didn’t realise there was a potential link to her brother’s killer. But if Carol Stine’s story is true it not only lends credence to KJ’s story but increases the likelihood that the man was Z – his future failure to convincingly claim the crime could be because it didn’t go to plan with his intended victim and he was rattled, not picking up the types of details he would otherwise use in his descriptions (and would also explain the need to set fire to the car, he may have been unsure about what he’d touched).

Does this change anyone else’s perception of the event? Alternatively are there any reasons that we shouldn’t necessarily value the claims by Judith Chapman or Carol Stine? I’ve done some surface digging (googling) and not really found any reason to doubt either of them.

EDIT: spelling

Judith is awesome, but she is relaying what was told to her. I don’t think Carol would have a reason to lie, I just question the "when".

And after Joe challenging Zodiac (I’m pretty sure I read the family was not too happy about that), Carol must have been a bit on edge, so soon after her brother being murdered. I think it would have been something that terrified her and there would be no doubting she thought of Zodiac. Instead, she was (apparently) questioning whether or not it could have been Larry Singleton…and that happened in 1978. I know it was decided it couldn’t have been him because of the year of Carol’s car, but to even question it? That’s my point.

So…that alone does not give me confidence to say this happened in March of 1970. It’s like the Halloween card KJ supposedly received. It’s all up in the air, and with that, I cannot use it to confirm it.

Zodiac could have offered some sort of Kj proof outside of what the newspapers wrote, but he did not. He was an Examiner copy-cat…almost word for word.

The Composite of Zodiac came out In Nov. of 1969. K.J was abducted in March of 1970. The composite had been out for four months by mid March when he abducted her, and she hadn’t seen it before that day in the station? Hmm, seems odd. Possible though, just seems strange to me that she’d never seen it. (I don’t know, but I think it’s safe to assume that the composite featured heavily of T.V news, aswel as in the tabloids.)

@ Tahoe – thanks for the added info, I agree it’s not too encouraging if there’s doubt as to the date of Carole Stine’s incident, the years obviously don’t help either but I think that the death of her brother would have been such a marker in her life for the following few years that an event like the highway chase would be a lot easier for her to pinpoint than someone who didn’t have that kind of time marker to judge by.
I also would be wary of comparing Zodiac’s letter to the article – he could well have read it and intermingled his memory of the night with the reporter’s story. Am I right in thinking that this was a little-known story tucked away in the middle of the paper? To me that would just as equally show that Z was scouring the news with a fine toothed comb looking for any publicity on his latest activity. Then again, it also makes a prime candidate for a false claim.
@WC – my problem with the composite on the wall in the police station is the timing of her story. If she made the whole thing up you would think that she would have mentioned the sensational name Zodiac as soon as she was ‘rescued’ in order to maximize the fuss around the whole incident. Yes, she could have had the inspiration to embelish the story once she saw the composite, but that would carry the risk of disbelief due to the MO not matching his previous behaviour in any way. Of course, there is the very distinct possibility that KJ was subjected to the crime by someone who just happened to look like the composite. It’s not very far fetched really, how many POIs can be made to match some description or other?
Well ,here I am then. back on the fence.

@ Tahoe – thanks for the added info, I agree it’s not too encouraging if there’s doubt as to the date of Carole Stine’s incident, the years obviously don’t help either but I think that the death of her brother would have been such a marker in her life for the following few years that an event like the highway chase would be a lot easier for her to pinpoint than someone who didn’t have that kind of time marker to judge by.
I also would be wary of comparing Zodiac’s letter to the article – he could well have read it and intermingled his memory of the night with the reporter’s story. Am I right in thinking that this was a little-known story tucked away in the middle of the paper? To me that would just as equally show that Z was scouring the news with a fine toothed comb looking for any publicity on his latest activity. Then again, it also makes a prime candidate for a false claim.

If you look at the first post of this thread, you can see the article about KJ was at the top of page 4 (sort of highlighted–for lack of a better word) in a box…and it was in the SF Examiner.

I think if this event with Carol happened so soon after her brother’s death, there would have been no question, and she probably would have even called police that night!

The Composite of Zodiac came out In Nov. of 1969. K.J was abducted in March of 1970. The composite had been out for four months by mid March when he abducted her, and she hadn’t seen it before that day in the station? Hmm, seems odd. Possible though, just seems strange to me that she’d never seen it. (I don’t know, but I think it’s safe to assume that the composite featured heavily of T.V news, aswel as in the tabloids.)

Kathleen lived in southern California. It’s quite possible that the composite of Zodiac was not as widely featured in the newspapers or news programs in that area as it was in the Bay Area. I don’t think we can assume that she saw the composite before her encounter. Also, news was not 24/7 as it is today. There was television news on for an hour or so in the evening around dinner time and then again at 11pm.