Why Not Kane? OK I will give my answer.

Kane looks nothing like the SF Zodiac sketch. Descriptions differ and weight is hard to guess and it is easy to look heavier. But both Mageau and Johns said Z was 160 pounds and 25 to 30 years old. There is nothing at all to indicate that Kane had a strong interest in or knowledge of either code making or bomb designing. Or opera or Norse. Or letter writing to newspapers. In his other criminal activites he seems incompetent and unintelligent and got caught. A radioman in the Navy sends coded messages from a book. He does not make and create new codes. And the handwriting is not a match.

Mageau says 160 pounds in this article, and 25 to 30 years old. But lets face it, he saw the guy for seconds in the dark, was shot, had his life fall apart and he has since been all over the map in re descriptions.

Probable victim Kathleen Johns also gave Zodiac’s weight as 160 pounds and 30 years old, and she sat close to him in a car, for several minutes.

Fouke said in his DVD interview that Allen was "100 pounds" heavier than the man he saw that night. The heaviest weight for Allen I have seen was 250 pounds.

The SF Zodiac sketch has no fat in the face at all. It appears to show a lean man of about 160 pounds or so. Certainly not a heavy or fat man, which raises the possibility that Zodiac used a method like putting a towel under his shirt and wearing two jackets to make himself look heavier in body (as Ted K did).

The SF Z sketch does not match Kane at all. Kane has Sephardic Jewish looks with black wavy hair, bushy black eyebrows, prominent nose, chubby face, double chins. IMO absolutely nothing at all like the SF sketch. Also going by Mageau and Johns 25 to 30, and other evidence, I think Z was around 27 to 32, and Kane was 45 in 1969. The handwriting is an absolute non-match, and IMO so is the physical appearance, face, hair, weight and age.

"Kane looks nothing like the SF Zodiac sketch." Nor does it resemble the Berryessa Composite. That sketch was released, recalled, amended and re-released as a second sketch with the first. Are we sure this is accurate?

"Also going by Mageau and Johns 25 to 30, and other evidence, I think Z was around 27 to 32." Mike Mageau himself said he got a fleeting glace at his shooter after peering over the backseats of Dee’s car. Mike also said that he saw he suspect not from the front, but side on, and after he’d been half blinded by Zodiac shining a bright flashlight beam into Mike’s eyes. He ‘Saw’ Zodiac as he stood in the open door of his own vehicle while reloading his gun which means that Zodiac was behind the headlights of his own vehicle and how Mike can see past these to his facial details is miraculous. Mike said his attacker was 25 -30, jet black hair, curly etc, and then Mr Mageau picked bald headed Arthur Allen out of a line up before claiming that Darlene may have called the shooter ‘Richard’. So is he reliable as a witness? I wouldn’t think so. I don’t necessarily think Mike is deliberately and knowingly lying. After what he went through his subconscious mind may have blocked certain things out while adding other things in as studies have show that the human brain, when confronted with a highly traumatic event, often alters and distorts the memory of that event as a coping mechanism.

Kathy J is irrelevant really in the context of this debate because nothing has ever conclusively linked Zodiac to her abduction. I think we discussed the age issue before and like I said then, the people who described Zodiac as ‘young, possibly in his twenties’ were doing so based on his voice. Slaight: ‘Male, young sounding, possibly early twenties". Hatenell also places Zodiac’s age as twenties to early thirties but he, like Slaight, was going by Zodiac’s voice. Slaight spoke with Z on the phone, and Bryan spoke to Z in person for roughly half an hour, and during every minute of that conversation, Z wore a costume with a mask that covered his entire head. Assuming the White Male Don Fouke saw was The Zodiac (seems to me that it was, he matched the description of the teen witnesses, and Don Describes the White Male as wearing a dark blue derby type jacket, pleated pants that were rust brown in colour, and engineering type boots which is almost exactly the same clothing description Hartnell gives for Zodiac two week previous), Fouke is the only witness in the entire Zodiac case tha ever saw Zodiac’s face under street lighting conditions. Unlike Mageau who had been shot repeatedly, with one bullet having hit him in the face when he saw Zodiac from a side view, Don was not in a sheer panic or fear. Fouke is a trained observer, his occupation demands this of him. Listening to Fouke’s description of what the suspect was wearing in such detail I would say Fouke is an extremely well trained observer. Armond Pelissetti states "It just so happens that the area is extremely well lit." Nobody else ever saw Zodiac unmasked and under well lit conditions, only Don Fouke.

" The handwriting is an absolute non-match." That is correct, but half the story. You’ve left out just how they got his writing to compare. Two Detectives visited Kane and made absolutely no secret of the fact that they were there to question Lawrence about the Zodiac Crimes and after they had done this, they then asked Larry would he provide them a sample of his handwriting, when he has just been questioned directly about Zodiac. So if Kane were Z, he’d have to be absolutely backwards to write in his usual hand.

" Also going by Mageau and Johns 25 to 30, and other evidence, I think Z was around 27 to 32." What other evidence?

You are picking evidence that fits your suspect and ignoring or downgrading evidence that does not.

You claim Mageau said Z had black hair. Wrong he said "light brown, almost blonde"!

Mageau says 160 pounds in this article, and 25 to 30 years old. But lets face it, he saw the guy for seconds in the dark, was shot, had his life fall apart and he has since been all over the map in re descriptions. Witness descriptions in general can be unreliable. I do give some weight to the SF sketch because it was based on multiple witnesses. How good a view they had can be debated. How good a view Mageau had, for how long, in what light, and what effect being shot in the head had, can also be debated.

Probable victim Kathleen Johns also gave Zodiac’s weight as 160 pounds and 30 years old, and she sat close to him in a car, for several minutes.

Fouke said in his DVD interview that Allen was "100 pounds" heavier than the man he saw that night. The heaviest weight for Allen I have seen was 250 pounds.

Age I base on Mageau and Johns, the first SF sketch, the voice witnesses and SB 63.

Any response to my other points about the complete non-match to intellect, interests and abilities? Equally important IMO is that Kane matches none of the obsessions, interests and skills of Z, such as code making, bomb designing, opera, Norse, letter writing to newspapers. And Kane was seemingly incompetent, unintelligent and easily caught in his other crimes.

Any response to my other points about the complete non-match to intellect, interests and abilities? Equally important IMO is that Kane matches none of the obsessions, interests and skills of Z, such as code making, bomb designing, opera, Norse, letter writing to newspapers. And Kane was seemingly incompetent, unintelligent and easily caught in his other crimes.
/quote]

Just lost my response to your inquires when I clicked Submit…aarg!

I get more detailed again later but in the mean time…. I don’t think Zodiac was as brilliant as you think he was.

You said "You are picking evidence that fits your suspect and ignoring or downgrading evidence that does not."

I can’t ignore evidence that fits him. That’s why he’s my key Suspect.

 

Copy and save before you hit submit!

May be brilliant may not be but imo certainly intelligent. And even if only medium intelligence certainly had strong interests in and/or skills at code making, bomb designing, opera, Norse, graphics, letters, etc.

I think everyone is guilty to some degree of looking at parts of the evidence and choosing the bits that best suit their POI.

For example, the composite posted above comparing Kane to Zodiac is almost certainly a less accurate composite, seeing as this was updated by a picture that was seemingly agreed to be more like the Zodiac. Also, we can’t keep taking Kathleen Johns’ description as gospel seeing as no one could ever actually confirm that it was the Zodiac himself that she encountered.

Mageau was tall, lanky and painfully thin – although he might have been able to relay a vague description, I’m not confident he could guess another guy’s exact weight by looking at his profile for a few seconds. He says he was stocky and muscular and then guesses him at not much more than about 11stone!! Fouke guessed at 180-200 and although he flippantly denounced Allen as probably being 100 pounds more (I’ve seen him being reported as 275 or more somewhere), we don’t need to automatically deduce that Fouke must have meant Zodiac therefore weighed 150. He already said it – heavily built and up to 200. He also said possibly 35-45 years old so we can’t ignore that either.

I think we can only reasonably say that Z was probably 25-45 years old and probably in the middle part of 160 – 200 pounds which is why most suspects can’t be ruled out unless we cherry pick certain parts of descriptions from certain evidence.

Any response to my other points about the complete non-match to intellect, interests and abilities? Equally important IMO is that Kane matches none of the obsessions, interests and skills of Z, such as code making, bomb designing, opera, Norse, letter writing to newspapers. And Kane was seemingly incompetent, unintelligent and easily caught in his other crimes.

Here’s how I see it.

Codes: I have heard more then one person mention that Zodiacs Zyphers were not that great.

Bomb designs: He probably never followed through on his Bomb threats so we are no even sure he made one. And,could he have not just check out a book at the Library to find out how or someway similar?

Norse: This was so minimal in the Zodiac mystery that I am not sure it sinks or swims any suspect.

Letter writing: from this post you can probably see that I am not the best at writing, but even I could have written the Zodiac letters.

Opera: This is the one I cannot answer concerning Kane. Clearly, Opera was apart of the Zodiacs life. Maybe someone else is more suited to connect Opera with Kane.

My point is this; We know that Kane had some real mental issues do to his accident. But i am not sure that even with his mental limitations he couldn’t have accomplshed the Killings and communications.

Also,my wife,being a Psychologist, seems to think that some of Zodiacs behavior during the murders, points straight to Kane.

All this being said my brother just sent me this message after reading a recently released Zodiac book: "I am still a believer in Leigh Allen. Having known him, he was just too weird and there were way too many ‘Coincidences.’ that pointed at him. Although I believe that he didn’t think he did it. He was a strange man."

My brother had had many conversation with Allen including being in his house several times.

I asked him if he thought Allen had a split personality and he said "I am not sure, maybe he just convinced himself somehow."

just a few thought’s and some extra thoughts

Codes: I have heard more then one person mention that Zodiacs Zyphers were not that great.

AK: Who said this? And what are their credentials in cryptography? Zodiac created codes that – according to the latest FBI analysis – likely contain a message but have defied all attempts to break them. I would say he had skills as a code maker. And certainly, even if you say little skills, an interest bordering on obsession. Absolutley no evidence that Kane had skills in code making or any interest at all.

Bomb designs: He probably never followed through on his Bomb threats so we are no even sure he made one. And,could he have not just check out a book at the Library to find out how or someway similar?

AK: Again, Zodiac sent in bomb designs and made bomb threats. Nothing shows Allen had any skills or interest in bombs. Doesn’t mean he can’t be Zodiac, just an with code making its an absence of a match. Its a non-match of background, training, knowledge, interests and skills we might expect Zodiac to have.

Norse: This was so minimal in the Zodiac mystery that I am not sure it sinks or swims any suspect.

AK: True. Not saying it alone sinks or swims a suspect. But once again a non-match. Zodiac sent in the card with the definition of the Norse word SLA. He used and seemed proud enough to point out he used a German Luger. One symbol he used may have been a Norse Rune. I think DES was a German word. There were a few other minor clues indicating possible background in, knowledge of and/or interest in German, Norse, Nordic langauge, symbols and culture. So we have a possible match with a suspect like Mr. X, who was Nordic, or Ted K, who was in German Club and had books on Norse myths. With Kane, we have no evidence he had knowledge of or interest in Germany/Norse, in fact he was Jewish.

Letter writing: from this post you can probably see that I am not the best at writing, but even I could have written the Zodiac letters.

AK: What I meant is some suspects have a known habit and history of writing letters to newspapers, writing letters pretending to be someone else and communicating extensively through written means. Kane shows none of that, to my knowledge. Zodiac also showed some minor to moderate facility with graphics, drawing and design in the cards, paste-ups and symbols he created. Again, matches some other suspects, not Kane.

Opera: This is the one I cannot answer concerning Kane. Clearly, Opera was apart of the Zodiacs life. Maybe someone else is more suited to connect Opera with Kane.

AK: Again, no connection, yet Zodiac seemed interested in and knowledgable of some opera (like Ted K and others).

My point is this; We know that Kane had some real mental issues do to his accident. But i am not sure that even with his mental limitations he couldn’t have accomplshed the Killings and communications.

AK: Well, what we do know is in his other known criminal activies, Kane seemed impulsive, unintelligent, incompetent and was caught. IMO not traits that match to Zodiac.

In short, IMO, Kane has NONE of the skills, interests, obsessions we might expect Zodiac to have. Does not entirely rule him out, but when combined IMO with the non-match on appearance and age, makes him a weak candidate. OK, you wanted to know "Why Not Kane?", those are my answers.

If Zodiac had walked around humming Titwillow, I think we’d have him by now.

I say, add all these characteristics together, then look for someone who is nothing like this.

I’m with Tahoe on this one. All the shit that the Z put out there in the newspapers was just him creating a villainous alter-ego – straight from the comic books he no doubt loved. I’m sure the guy himself was nothing like this in real life and was just some non-descript mundane everyday guy.

If he went around saying titwillow to everyone, writing to his family/friends in code and showing them his collection of bayonets, guns and home made black hooded costumes he’d have been turned in by someone a long time ago.

PS. Allen did have a bit of a thing about bombs and LE even found pipe bombs in his house during a search.

Read the history of profiling and examine real cases. Its not perfect science but often the offender intentionally and unintentionally reveals aspects of himself, his background, skills, traits and obsessions. Look at the NY Mad Bomber, BTK, the Unabomber and many others.

If you think Z had no knowledge of or interest in bombs, codes, letter writing, geometry, opera, writing to newspapers, hunting, etc., then good luck finding him with that approach. That is not my view.

Oh, I’ve most certainly read more than my fair share of real case studies and profiling! You misunderstand me, though. I didn’t say he had no interest or knowledge in these things – quite the contrary. He obviously had interest in codes, hunting, etc. He also had an unhealthy interest in and knowledge of murdering people – I just don’t think his wife, boss, workmates, etc knew anything about this either!

The anonymous hooded phantom killer, stalker, code maker who we saw in the newspapers would hardly have been known to all his family, workmates, etc as a stalker, code maker and murderer who liked to wear hooded costumes on weekends. He no doubt revealed his secret desires in some of those letters but I’d bet he didn’t go about shouting the very same things and publicly displaying them to everyone he knew.

Dennis Radar wasn’t publicly known as a stalker, sadist and fetishist who liked to tie up dolls, act out torture/bondage fantasies, write cryptic notes and taunt law enforcement. His alter-ego BTK however most certainly did and it was only when Radar was caught that all his hidden secrets came out.

Ok then we are not that far apart perhaps. But I would think it possible that some family and friends – and some parts of public records – might reveal some predicted Z interests and skills, like hunting, opera, codes, letters to the editor, etc. Other things like bomb making may well have been secretive.

Then there are intenional clues, like Rader putting LOST PET OFFICER in the word puzzle he sent.

Does anyone really, honestly know that Kane could not have written those letters?
Or committed those murders or created a bomb sketch? Does anyone really know how deep his mental disability was?
I believe he was able to keep a job, no?

. AK: Who said this? And what are their credentials in cryptography? Zodiac created codes that – according to the latest FBI analysis – likely contain a message but have defied all attempts to break them. I would say he had skills as a code maker. And certainly, even if you say little skills, an interest bordering on obsession. Absolutley no evidence that Kane had skills in code making or any interest at all.

Not that this is my reference to my previous comments but it shows I’m not the only one who feels this way.

From Lafferty’s book.

Lafferty says they were errors. Were they? Or was it intentional?