He created codes that the police, FBI, academia and thousands of amateurs have not been able to break.

When suspects have no background, training, skills or even interest in codes, people will say "oh the codes had errors, so they were not done by an expert, therefor my suspect could have done them."

Not sure about "errors", unless he means INTENTIONALLY misspelling some words in order to increase difficulty of solution.

Zodiac 408 Code: DANGEROUE instead of DANGEROUS, similair to how Ted K in a code he created said YESTERDAE instead of YEASTERDAY (Both Zodiac and Kaczynski have a code in which in order to increase difficulty of solution they change the last consonant (S, Y) in a word to the vowel "E".)

IMO it is very likely that whoever Zodiac is, that person has some knowledge of and interest in codes, bombs, Norse, opera, writing letters to the editor. Others may not agree.

You asked "why not Kane" and I and others have answered. If you don’t like our answers that is your choice. I would say "WHY Kane?", as I see no matches between what I think are Zodiac’s skills, interests and obsessions and Kane. That does not entirely rule him out, but IMO it makes him a very weak suspect. And a non-match on handwriting, non-match on age, non-match on appearance.

[You asked "why not Kane" and I and others have answered. If you don’t like our answers that is your choice.

I appreciate your answers, thank you. But mostly what I seemed to get from you is that Kane was to dumb. I was looking for something a bit more then that. The point of starting the discussion was to see if somebody had some tangible evidence. Let’s face it, all of our POI’s are based mostly on circumstantial evidence. When I look at Kane the circumstantial evidence seems to lean more towards him then anyone. My opinion of course. I don’t have a "favorite" suspect, I’m not out to prove anything. I have no pride in all of this. I was hoping to have one of those "oh, I didn’t know that. There is no way it can be him." But that didn’t happen and that’s ok.

And to answer your question about "WHY Kane?" WC seems to have mapped it out far better then I.

I am wondering…other than the (alleged) Donna Lass connection, would he have EVER have been a suspect?

Had his name never been mentioned by someone in Lake Tahoe, would we ever know the name Larry Kane?

I am wondering…other than the (alleged) Donna Lass connection, would he have EVER have been a suspect?

Had his name never been mentioned by someone in Lake Tahoe, would we ever know the name Larry Kane?

Had Don Cheney not claimed Arthur Allen told him he was Zodiac, would we even know the name Arthur Allen?

Had Blain not gone on TV and claimed a former editor of The Good Times Herald was Z, would we ever have heard the name Richard Gaikowski in relation to Z?

You could say this for all suspects, they have to become suspects somehow lol.

"I am wondering…other than the (alleged) Donna Lass connection, would he have EVER have been a suspect?" The way you word that T sounds as though your implying that is all there ever was connecting Kane to anything Zodiac related. (I know, or I assume, you didn’t mean that?) The truth is there are many things that make Kane a good suspect, albeit circumstantially, but show me a suspect who’s evidence isn’t? One example from Official sources can be seen below regarding Kane, and why he is of interest:

Donna Lass was the link to Kane and the Zodiac.

AK: "Any response to my other points about the complete non-match to intellect, interests and abilities? Equally important IMO is that Kane matches none of the obsessions, interests and skills of Z, such as code making, bomb designing, opera, Norse, letter writing to newspapers. And Kane was seemingly incompetent, unintelligent and easily caught in his other crimes."

AK, that’s ridiculous. You’d have to have known Kane personally to be able to form that opinion you seemed to have formed, and you didn’t. That’s the first thing. Secondly, "skills, interests, obsessions we might expect Zodiac to have." We? You mean you, AK, not we. You expect Zodiac to have interests and obsessions in things like Cryptography, bomb making etc because you are determined that Ted K, the Uni-Bomber is the Zodiac. ‘We’ should expect Zodiac to have a keen interest in Opera because he Quoted The Mikado and made one or two other references to Opera? So if I wrote several letters anonymously and quoted in one of them "To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction" does this make me ‘obsessed’ or have a keen interest in Newton and the Law’s of Physics & Motion? Could do, but it could also mean that I am aware of this phrase and like to you it when appropriate. Zodiac quoted KoKo and KoKo was an executioner who had a ‘Little List’ of " plenty of people whose loss will be a distinct gain to society at large.’ Considering Zodiac was on a kill spree at the time, you could look at this and determine that, in it’s context it’s appropriate because of what Zodiac is doing.

And yes Zodiac said he was going to make explosive devices and detonate them, he said a lot of things did Zodiac. "I think I shall wipe out a school bus some day…" Well that never came to pass, but should we deduce he’s a school bus fanatic, maybe a driver, just because he mentions a school bus? Should we decide he has the capability in terms of marksmanship to shoot out the tyres of a moving target such as a bus just because he said he could? The same goes for his idle bomb threats. Yes, he sent instructions on how to make a bomb, instructions that, while he may have known them because he was a prolific bomb maker, he could just as easily been reading from a specialist instruction book. He never actually built, placed, and detonated any device, probably because he couldn’t and his threats of blowing things up were, like his threats to kill school children, designed to cause maximum fear. I can write to you with instructions on how to make a car engine for a BMW, and I would just be copying it out of a Car Manufacturing Magazine, not because I’m a mechanic.

I think it’s comical AK that you accuse me of ‘Picking what fits Kane, ignoring what doesn’t’ when you insist that Zodiac was some explosive expert/bomb maker and Cryptologist just because it fits with Ted K. If you care to look, I’ve always said I have no time for people who see what they want that fits their agenda and ignore any and all evidence that suggests otherwise. The things you claim as ‘Evidence’ to rule Kane out is not evidence of anything. And to flip it, just because you and I can’t show evidence that Kane was competent in manufacturing bombs, cryptograms etc, doesn’t mean that he wasn’t and couldn’t. It just means if he did, its not public knowledge. Kane’s report did describe him as a loner, secretive in his dealings, and always keeps his shades closed.

There is nothing that conclusively rules Kane out, trust me I’ve looked. As I’ve stated elsewhere many times, that is the very thing that led me to conclude that Kane, of the known suspects, is head and shoulders above the rest because rather than starting with "What rules Kane in as Zodiac" I approached the known suspects intending to look at them from a "What rules Suspect A out, why isn’t, and why can’t he be, Zodiac?" Kane was the only one I found that had nothing to point to his innocence in the crimes and after researching, a whole lot that implicates him to go with it.

If we are looking for facts, not opinions, then Ted K has been officially ruled out as a Zodiac suspect. Larry Kane hasn’t been. So from an official investigative perspective, Kane = Possibility for being responsible for Zodiac Crimes. Theodore ‘Ted’ Kaczynski = Ruled Out.

Nonsense. I was interested in the Z case for 20 years before the facts and evidence led me to TK. He has not been ruled out in fact they have requested DNA and other evidence.

If you wish to disregard all the possible clues about Z – codes, bombs, hunting, opera – good luck and good hunting. I will continue to help with advice on FOIA but I have nothing else to say about Kane.

Nonsense. I was interested in the Z case for 20 years before the facts and evidence led me to TK. He has not been ruled out in fact they have requested DNA and other evidence.

If you wish to disregard all the possible clues about Z – codes, bombs, hunting, opera – good luck and good hunting. I will continue to help with advice on FOIA but I have nothing else to say about Kane.

AK I don’t disregard them, that would be silly. However, Neither do i accept them as definitive clues to his identity with no questions asked. Using your logic, every POI can be eliminated if he has no knowledge of, or link to, bomb manufacturing. I mean you point to Kane’s lack of intellect as one reason why he can’t be Zodiac (This assumes that two things. One: One know Kane’s IQ. Two: You know Zodiacs IQ.) and then have no problem with such an intelligent Zodiac informing his pursuers that he’s an accomplished bomb maker, cryptologist etc which would be extremely stupid to do if he were because that is two very specific abilities that only a very small number of citizens could be capable of so he’s flushing himself out rather than being flushed out. Its just as likely, if not more likely IMO, that these are red herrings, false flags, Diversion tactics, call them what you will, they are probably designed to bolster and enhance his image as well as throwing the police off. When they claimed to have something on Zodiac after the Paul Stine murder, what did he say? " I was leaving fake clews for the police to run all over town with, asone might say, I gave the cops som bussy work to do to keep them happy. I enjoy needling the blue pigs."

…. Donna Lass was the link to Kane and the Zodiac.

And this is what give me doubts.

Had Zodiac staked a claim to having anything to do with Donna, it would definitely make Kane more interesting and had Kane been mentioned much earlier on in the case, that too would make him more of a valid suspect…and Zodiac aside…a suspect in the disappearance of Donna Lass.

A vague postcard that mentions the North Shore of Lake Tahoe, doesn’t prove he (whomever he may be) was even referring to Donna…and we all know the dates just don’t jibe.

I’m wondering…if Donna Lass was found NOT to be a Zodiac victim, what would happen to Kane as a suspect?

I’m still curious about the fact that out of the numerous pictures of suspects that have been shown to Foukes, he picked out Larry Kane as looking the closest to the guy he encountered that night.

Obviously it doesn’t mean that he positively ID’d him but I also say we shouldn’t rule him out either, especially as he was a mentally unstable criminal who lived close to areas of Zodiac activity and a key witness said he was the closest match to the culprit. He’s worth a closer look at the very least.

All the suspects are only linked to the case via tenuous circumstancial evidence so I think we have to include them as "possibles" until it can be definitely proven otherwise.

…. Donna Lass was the link to Kane and the Zodiac.

And this is what give me doubts.

Had Zodiac staked a claim to having anything to do with Donna, it would definitely make Kane more interesting and had Kane been mentioned much earlier on in the case, that too would make him more of a valid suspect…and Zodiac aside…a suspect in the disappearance of Donna Lass.

A vague postcard that mentions the North Shore of Lake Tahoe, doesn’t prove he (whomever he may be) was even referring to Donna…and we all know the dates just don’t jibe.

I’m wondering…if Donna Lass was found NOT to be a Zodiac victim, what would happen to Kane as a suspect?

The way that’s worded implies that the one sole reason that Kane is still a suspect, and the only evidence at all that there is to suggest Kane may be Zodiac is, Donna Lass and that is just simply not the case. So my answer to your question of what would happen to Kane as a suspect if DNA proved Donna was not killed by Zodiac is, nothing. Kane doesn’t need Donna Lass and the connection to make a valid and good Zodiac suspect. Yes, that was how he came to the Zodiac suspect list, but after that much more was learned and evidence (albeit circumstantially) found that makes Kane a valid suspect.

I don’t ‘Know’ Kane was Zodiac, and said a few weeks ago I think there are several suspects that make good suspects and James Owen, given his witness statements and their inconsistencies and not backed up by others in the same area, is someone I personally think should be placed higher up on the list of suspects. My point is, I don’t discount other suspects because I’m self convinced that I have solved this case and will hear nothing to the contrary for my agenda. The reason I don’t is because I have no agenda and said umpteen times now that if The SFPD called a press conference tomorrow in San Francisco to announce that A DNA hit had been found, or a finger print match discovered, in the Zodiac case and as a result, there is little doubt that Rick Marshall was and is, The Zodiac, then that would make absolutely no difference to me what-so-ever. I have no agenda, bias for or against any suspect, nor an ego that allows me to inform myself that I have solved the case, a case that saw hundreds of trained detectives and law officers fail to find the responsible.

I’m still curious about the fact that out of the numerous pictures of suspects that have been shown to Foukes, he picked out Larry Kane as looking the closest to the guy he encountered that night.

Obviously it doesn’t mean that he positively ID’d him but I also say we shouldn’t rule him out either, especially as he was a mentally unstable criminal who lived close to areas of Zodiac activity and a key witness said he was the closest match to the culprit. He’s worth a closer look at the very least.

All the suspects are only linked to the case via tenuous circumstancial evidence so I think we have to include them as "possibles" until it can be definitely proven otherwise.

Well said. I recently discovered that certain people from another Zodiac website have been claiming that Fouke said "Of all the suspects photo’s I’ve been show, this one is the best likeness" in regards to Richard Gaikowski! They know full well that it wasn’t said by Don while referring to Gaikowski.

I’ve heard all sorts of arguments from people as to why Kane cannot be Zodiac, none of which stand up. One of these was "Kane had brain damage, therefore his mental capacity and intellect would be effected and he could not have created Complex Ciphers." If they researched Frontal Lobe Brain Injury they’d know that Frontal Lobe TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury) doesn’t effect one’s intellectual capacity.
The most common argument I’ve heard as to why Kane can’t be Z is "Frontal Lobe Damage effects a persons ability to plan ahead, so Kane can’t be Zodiac because Kane couldn’t have planned the Zodiac crimes like Zodiac did." While it’s true that a common symptom of Frontal Lobe Injury is difficulty in planning, that’s one symptom of many that some TBI patients will have, but others won’t. And why its assumed that Z planned the crimes is another head scratcher. Seems to me that Zodiac was your opportunistic killer, not prolific planner. Lake Herman, he comes across a lone vehicle in a lovers lane that he does not know will be there until he arrives there himself. Could not plan that as victim cannot be guaranteed to be there. Lake B. Man seen lurking around the area for hours prior to Z’s attack and three girls sun bathing report a man, stocky and good looking in his 40’s, watching them from the top of a hill. It seems Z was searching for at least an hour at Lake B before finding Bryan and Cecilia, some planning that was! Presidio Heights, Z dashes off down Cherry St, turns right onto Jackson, walk down the hill 50 yards or so and right into the headlights of a responding Patrol Car when, had he planned the murder and scouted the area, there was an opening right opposite Cherry St to get to the Presidio, if that’s where he really was going (I don’t think it was, but mention it because most people do). His crimes have every hallmark of an opportunistic killer, who’s victims were just in the wrong place at the wrong time as he stumbled across them. Zodiac knew he was going out to murder on Dec 20, 1968 but did he plan to kill at the gated entrance to the pumping station on Lake Herman? Impossible, unless he knew the victims.

Did Fouke say it WAS Kane, or that Kane looked the closest to the man he encountered that night? If Fouke said "that’s him", I think that would be A LOT more interesting, otherwise it could be just a general reference. I know too Fouke was adamant about Zodiac’s hairline and Kane’s doesn’t fit the bill…so I have to wonder if it was a generalization of similarities.

In regards to the girls as LB…they don’t say he was in his 40’s. One mentioned "28" and another "30". A member here kindly pointed out to me the "40" mentioned was by a man relaying info told to him which was probably a misunderstanding…and I agree. I think having two of the girls quoted as closer to 30…that is probably the correct info.

It’s so easy with this case to pick and choose certain comments to fit everyone’s POI. He had jet black, hair, red hair, he was 40 he was 30, he was stocky, he was 160….and that is why there are SO many POI’s.

I am also confused by your last statement Chappie. Are you saying Zodiac knew his victims at LHR? Why couldn’t he just have known the area and come across a couple parked there? And if Kane…what were his ties to Vallejo and David and/or Betty Lou of all people?

The reason I don’t is because I have no agenda and said umpteen times now that if The SFPD called a press conference tomorrow in San Francisco to announce that A DNA hit had been found, or a finger print match discovered, in the Zodiac case and as a result, there is little doubt that Rick Marshall was and is, The Zodiac, then that would make absolutely no difference to me what-so-ever. I have no agenda, bias for or against any suspect, nor an ego that allows me to inform myself that I have solved the case, a case that saw hundreds of trained detectives and law officers fail to find the responsible.

Ok, cool your heels there Citizen Smith.

Stop with this agenda nonsense. For one thing it’s insulting because you are painting a picture of this board as a place where there are agendas to influence people’s thoughts on aspects of this case. That reflects on everyone here and even yourself as you are here so cut it out pls.

As for ego. we’ve all got one. Although IIRC you might call them principles. Seriously though, enough with the conspiracy thinking, it’s upsetting me and that never ends well.

Do we know what picture of Kane was shown to Fouke? His arrest picture? It would be nice to have as a baseline to go by for Fouke’s opinion. I wouldn’t totally trust him to pick Zodiac out of a line-up 45 years after a 10 second encounter but I do think his observations are important.

I would like to see the actual quote from Fouke, and know what picture he looked at. In the DVD interview, he says Allen was "100 pounds heavier" than the man he saw that night.

And WC just to clarify something. I was not directly accusing you of picking and choosing evidence. I was responding to a specific post by craigfizter, wherein he relied upon Mageau’s statement to police. But after noting that Kane had black hair, he ignored (or benefit of the doubt) maybe missed the part of that exact same police report where Mageau said the man who shot him had hair that was "light brown, almost blonde". Tahoe noted that the LB girls said 28 and 30 as the age of the man they saw.

In any case where there are conflicting witness statements, varied descriptions, etc., all of us – myself included – have to guard against the often unconscious tendency to filter out, ignore or devalue evidence that doesn’t fit our POI or theory.