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Internet Article on Mr Q

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Seagull
(@seagull)
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Probably best to use the link to read the article. There are a lot of images and links in the story which I could not copy and paste to this post. I was having trouble making some of the links work but it could be me, I have terrible internet service.

http://jalopnik.com/why-the-internet-th … 1793576277

Why The Internet Thinks This Sports Car Mogul Might Have Been The Zodiac Killer

Jason Torchinsky
40 minutes ago
· Filed to: Car Crime

Even if you have never heard of the name Qvale, chances are that if you live anywhere near the West Coast and like European cars, you owe Kjell Qvale some thanks. Qvale brought MGs, Jaguars, Austin, Morris, Rolls-Royce and other cars to the Western U.S. He briefly had the exclusive right to sell Volkswagens on the West Coast, and he was responsible for the Jensen-Healey sports car. Also, some people think he was the infamous Zodiac Killer.

The Zodiac Killer terrorized the Bay Area and Northern California in the late ‘60s and into the early ‘70s. He had at least five confirmed kills, but possibly as many as 28. The killer himself claimed to have murdered 37 people.

Zodiac was known for leaving cryptic notes and messages, loaded with cyphers and obtuse symbols. Of the four cryptograms known, only one has ever been deciphered, and to this day the killer’s identity is not definitively known.

So how does Qvale fit into this killer’s infamous legacy? The reason people suggest that is bizarre and kind of sketchy—even if it’s still being talked about on internet forums, years after Qvale himself died.

Qvale came to America from Norway when he was a kid, and, after a stint as a U.S. Navy pilot in World War II, saw an MG TC sports car and fell in love.

From that moment on, he decided that if little British sports cars could have such a profound effect on him, there were probably many others who’d be similarly smitten, so he started a company in San Francisco called ‘British Motor Car Distributors,’ and from there he sold Morris, Austin, Jaguar, Rolls-Royces, the occasional Triumph, and other bits of golden-age British iron.

Qvale expanded and diversified by getting to be the first distributor of Volkswagens in the West, as well as importing cars from Porsche, Lamborghini, De Tomaso, and Maserati. Really, what the famous Max Hoffmann was to the East Coast, Qvale was to the West.

Qvale even actually made cars at one point. When Austin-Healey announced they were stopping production, Qvale realized this would leave a large hole in the American market, where the Austin-Healey was still popular.

To fill this hole, Qvale partnered with Donald Healey, the designer of the Austin-Healey, and Jensen Motors, who was building the Austin-Healey for Austin (sort of in the same way Jensen built the early P1800 for Volvo).

Healey was going to miss the royalties he got from Austin, and Jensen wanted something to replace the production of the Austin-Healey, so they were as eager as Qvale to create a new car to replace it. They did, the Jensen-Healey.

The Jensen-Healey became Jensen’s biggest-selling car ever, and in 1970 Qvale became Jensen’s biggest shareholder.

Much later, Kjell Qvale’s son, Bruce, would buy the rights to the De Tomaso Biguà and sell it as a Qvale Mangusta. It’s safe to say the Qvale name is a big one in the world of cars.

The Mangusta, developed by Qvale’s son Bruce Qvale, which came much later in the early 2000s.

Sadly for Qvale’s memory, it also seems that the Qvale name is a big one in the much smaller and stranger world of the Zodiac Killer—much of which occurred right around the time Qvale was building those Jensen-Healeys.

Everything seems to revolve around the October 12, 1969 murder of Paul Stine, in the Presidio Heights neighborhood of San Francisco. Stine was a cab driver, and was shot at pointblank range. This murder was actually seen by three witnesses, who gave the first eyewitness descriptions of the Zodiac killer.

Unfortunately, a miscommunication over the police radio had cops out looking for a black suspect instead of a white suspect, and one of the policemen passed a man bearing the correct description.

Later, this policeman’s report and the eyewitness descriptions allowed for the first composite sketch of the Zodiac Killer to be made and distributed.

Okay, fine, but what about Qvale? I’m getting there!

The main reason Qvale even comes up in all this is because that night, just a few blocks away, Kjell Qvale was out walking his dog. That, and the fact that Qvale bears a passing resemblance to the Zodiac Killer sketch, seems to be how this all started.

That the man with the dog was Qvale seems to come from the statements of one of the police officers at the scene, Armond Pelissetti.

From what I can gather–and that’s not easy, given the wildly speculative nature of the theories, the fact that decades and decades have passed, and the somewhat convoluted thinking of the sort of people who obsess over long-gone serial killers, the Qvale-is-the-Zodiac timeline for the night looks something like this:

Pelissetti arrives at scene. He talks to the kids. He calls it in. In the meantime Fouke has been en route to the scene, driving along Jackson, where he encounters Zodiac. Shortly after this encounter Fouke meets Pelissetti somewhere on Cherry where the two of them has a brief conservation.

If this is indeed the sequence, Zodiac could have made it to 3636 from 3712 Jackson St. He could have changed his clothes and picked up his dog and moved outside before Pelissetti managed to reach the point where he accosted KQ.

The time allows for this. I’m not saying this is what happened. But the time does allow for it, as I see it. 3712 is the proverbial stone’s throw from 3636. And Zodiac could have bolted as soon as Fouke was out of sight.

So, if we follow this, Zodiac kills the Stine, walks away from the cab, is seen by one cop who doesn’t realize he should be looking for a white guy like him, Zodiac bolts a couple of blocks home, changes clothes, grabs the dog, and heads back outside.

Why Qvale wouldn’t have just stayed inside if he’d just killed a man out on the street isn’t clear, but maybe that dog really had to take a dump and Qvale had white carpeting, or something.

As things like this always do, the Qvale story gets weirder and weirder the more you dig. My favorite theories by far are that Qvale was a member of the influential Bohemian Grove, an all-male club with incredibly powerful members, including presidents and captains of industry. One of the planning meetings for the Manhattan Project took place there.

Anyway, in these theories, Bohemian Grove was not a social club for rich and powerful men, but a homosexual sex-cult that performed occult ceremonies to a giant horned owl named Moloch. I’m not really sure this theory is taken that seriously, though.

Qvale died in 2013 at the age of 94, having lived a full life and been an influential figure in the American car scene. Obviously he was never charged with any crimes related to the Zodiac murders; it’s not clear whether or not he or his family ever even addressed these rumors or denied them. They’d certainly have good reason to.

I don’t actually think many people seriously think Kjell Qvale was the Zodiac Killer, but Qvale is a big enough deal in the world of motoring that it’s possible in your probings around the internet, you might come across the suggestion.

Besides, everyone thinks it was probably Ted Cruz now, anyway.

(Thanks to our own Graverobber for starting all this mess)

www.santarosahitchhikermurders.com

 
Posted : March 24, 2017 1:30 am
(@snooter)
Posts: 419
Reputable Member
 

Im still waiting for some photos at LB with the name of his boat visible..i like x but its a real longshot he was the z…still good as any at this point..bullwinkel is still in the running too…

 
Posted : March 24, 2017 1:58 am
(@mike_r)
Posts: 838
Prominent Member
 

Hi-

Seagull shared this with me. Obviously, this is a throw-away entertainment article and this guy has no idea what he is talking about especially with the "homosexual cult" having to do with the Z case. I never spoke to him and had no inkling that this article was being written. Instead of being legitimately informative, the article chooses to be the epitome of ignorance, as are the comments on it.
Mike

Mike Rodelli

Author, The Hunt for Zodiac; 3.9 stars on Amazon and
In The Shadow of Mt. Diablo: The Shocking True Identity of the Zodiac Killer, a second edition in print format. 4.3 Amazon stars and great Editorial reviews. Twitter:@mikerodelli

 
Posted : March 24, 2017 2:13 am
(@snooter)
Posts: 419
Reputable Member
 

Thats to be expected mike..its not thst big of a deal..there is no way that crowd that hangs around the price level of those cars today will ever think x had any connection to z…

 
Posted : March 24, 2017 2:52 am
(@mcduck)
Posts: 11
Active Member
 

It is a fact that certain powerful men would dress in drag and take part in a ceremony that involved a giant owl while at Bohemian Grove. Nixon called it the gayest* thing he’d ever seen. (*Nixon, of course, didn’t use the word gayest. Substitute the appropriate slur. LOL) And a good chunk of those men were, rumor has it, closeted gays. The conspiracy theories, of course, involve the other things those powerful men would do and talk about there. But that really doesn’t have that much to do with this Z theory.

 
Posted : March 24, 2017 3:07 am
(@mike_r)
Posts: 838
Prominent Member
 

Hi-

How does this Ted Cruz thing still have legs? Anyone who knows how to use Google knows that Cruz was born in 1970. I hate the term "fake news" because it is Tweeted ad nauseum every day but this Cruz as Zodiac thing certainly falls into that category. Very annoying.

Mike

Mike Rodelli

Author, The Hunt for Zodiac; 3.9 stars on Amazon and
In The Shadow of Mt. Diablo: The Shocking True Identity of the Zodiac Killer, a second edition in print format. 4.3 Amazon stars and great Editorial reviews. Twitter:@mikerodelli

 
Posted : March 24, 2017 4:22 am
(@charliemartin)
Posts: 52
Trusted Member
 

Mr. X

I am a native San Franciscan still living here. In responding to another native who just joined board we had something in common with case. We both knew Lindsey Robbins from school. He from grammar school myself high school. He lived near Washington Cherry. Myself I lived other side of town. He mentioned how he was surprised Mr. X was a suspect as he apparently knew his son from neighborhood. Got me thinking about the whole Mr. X story. If he was Z then this would have been his fourth incident of Murder, attempted Murder. As theory goes most criminals start this stuff in their comfort zone where they are most aware of area and how to avoid capture. Doesn’t seem right to me that he would begin his crimes up in Vallejo. Kind of a real random area to know and not all that close to S.F. Would he then come to his own neighborhood to commit last known Murder? There are many suspects that you can make a strong case for. My guy is ALA. Just seems he would be the guy to know area and make it home unnoticed.

charliemartin

 
Posted : February 1, 2018 5:24 am
(@mike_r)
Posts: 838
Prominent Member
 

Hi,

So if a person does not follow the "normal pattern" that every other killer must follow, he cannot have been the right person? Look at Dennis Rader. He started killing miles from his home and late in his career he killed someone down the block from his house. That was one of his later murders. He apparently needed to kill in a safe area before feeling cocky enough to "bring the crimes home." But he WAS BTK.

Mike

Mike Rodelli

Author, The Hunt for Zodiac; 3.9 stars on Amazon and
In The Shadow of Mt. Diablo: The Shocking True Identity of the Zodiac Killer, a second edition in print format. 4.3 Amazon stars and great Editorial reviews. Twitter:@mikerodelli

 
Posted : February 1, 2018 11:37 am
ophion1031
(@ophion1031)
Posts: 1798
Noble Member
 

Mr. X

I am a native San Franciscan still living here. In responding to another native who just joined board we had something in common with case. We both knew Lindsey Robbins from school. He from grammar school myself high school. He lived near Washington Cherry. Myself I lived other side of town. He mentioned how he was surprised Mr. X was a suspect as he apparently knew his son from neighborhood. Got me thinking about the whole Mr. X story. If he was Z then this would have been his fourth incident of Murder, attempted Murder. As theory goes most criminals start this stuff in their comfort zone where they are most aware of area and how to avoid capture. Doesn’t seem right to me that he would begin his crimes up in Vallejo. Kind of a real random area to know and not all that close to S.F. Would he then come to his own neighborhood to commit last known Murder? There are many suspects that you can make a strong case for. My guy is ALA. Just seems he would be the guy to know area and make it home unnoticed.

charliemartin

You don’t like the word "the," do you?

A few minutes ago on a toilet not very far, far away….

 
Posted : February 1, 2018 1:30 pm
(@charliemartin)
Posts: 52
Trusted Member
 

Mike,
I was just trying to look at this from a more simple angle of just basic things that I think could have been. I am not discounting Mr. X or any of the many other POIs. I know you and others have done a heck of a lot more thinking on this and putting in the effort. Just a thought that popped into my head.

charliemartin

 
Posted : February 2, 2018 7:49 am
(@charliemartin)
Posts: 52
Trusted Member
 

ophion 1031

Can you explain what you are trying to say regarding THE word THE as it relates to my post? Looking over my post and your comment doesn’t make any sense.
charliemartin

 
Posted : February 2, 2018 7:56 am
(@snooter)
Posts: 419
Reputable Member
 

Mike like the others believes strongly in there chief POI so a lil slack would be appreciated….X is an interesting character to say the least…but only 1 POI actually had a hood and that was TK..still X is more than a little intriging….

 
Posted : February 2, 2018 7:58 am
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