Now that Chappie is gone, Kjell Qvale’s thread has gone cold. I don’t have anything new to add, just saddened that no one has commented here in over a month. He’s still my favorite suspect. I wonder whatever happened to getting that blacked out name from the Stine report.

I hope that we’ll learn of anything interesting in that regard even though WC no longer posts here – the redacted name is of huge interest, after all, whether one fancies X as Z or not.

I keep coming back to the choice of words in that FBI document. It reads – to me – as though this witness must have seen someone actually leaving the cab. And then at some point later identified the redacted name as being the person leaving the cab. When you present it thus, it’s almost strange that nobody has made a huge deal about this.

It could easily be a dead end, of course. But – again going by what’s stated in the document – this is a) a witness to the crime who never appears anywhere else (described as being 8yrs old, thus not one of the kids across street, who were all older) and b) someone who got a close enough look at Z to be able to identify him. The witness could have been mistaken, obviously – but that doesn’t take away from the fact that he or she must have gotten a very good look at Z.

X would have been protected..fouke i would bet would have known him..all the beat cops would have known gaik as well…may be X just took care of his little friend after X tired of this hence reason all the letters stopped..i am not not a huge believer on dual Z’s but X would have had the funds to purchase whatever he wanted…

Now that Chappie is gone, Kjell Qvale’s thread has gone cold. I don’t have anything new to add, just saddened that no one has commented here in over a month. He’s still my favorite suspect. I wonder whatever happened to getting that blacked out name from the Stine report.

I hope that we’ll learn of anything interesting in that regard even though WC no longer posts here – the redacted name is of huge interest, after all, whether one fancies X as Z or not.

I keep coming back to the choice of words in that FBI document. It reads – to me – as though this witness must have seen someone actually leaving the cab. And then at some point later identified the redacted name as being the person leaving the cab. When you present it thus, it’s almost strange that nobody has made a huge deal about this.

It could easily be a dead end, of course. But – again going by what’s stated in the document – this is a) a witness to the crime who never appears anywhere else (described as being 8yrs old, thus not one of the kids across street, who were all older) and b) someone who got a close enough look at Z to be able to identify him. The witness could have been mistaken, obviously – but that doesn’t take away from the fact that he or she must have gotten a very good look at Z.

I’m not holding my breath that it will be KQ’s name. There’s too much consensus that Z was a big, beefy guy, it can’t be ignored. I still think we should all be interested in seeing that name, because whoever it is, they will give us a clearer idea of what Z looked like.

Yes – at the very worst we’ll be able to put this "8 yr old witness" lead away for good, if it turns out to be someone the cops checked out properly and who clearly wasn’t Z. By which I mean – it could be a case of the witness simply being completely mistaken, it was a little kid after all.

But at best we could get an interesting name out of it – someone who was perhaps NOT properly checked out by the cops back then for whatever reason.

to an 8 year old an adult male looks huge,,wonder if X handed out gum or candy to the kids in the neighborhood?..if so that kid would know X..also it could be that hippie from down the street

has it been confirmed Hartnell was in fact driving or owned a type 34 VW..a very very rare car with exclusive stealership being X’s stealership..if it is ever found out CJB had bought that bug from X I would think X was targeting customers who he thought screwed him over in the deal process or a father constantly up his ass demanding warranty repairs for a lemon he sold..dunno but would like some verification of what hartnell owned as far as a car

purty sure X had a stealership in alameda Kali (sold jeeps (willys) in alameda)..wonder if CJ dad traveled to san fran and drove the beetle back?…

designed part of laguna seca..may be he drove down to lompoc after a race????…

hartnells car went to Biava motors in napa..if hartnell bought that car new it would have had to come thru X’s stealership..wonder if X wanted it back..all the stealership records would have given hartnell’s address and other pertinent info..may be hartnell missed a few payments and X wanted it back

i think X had a dealership at 901 ven ness in san fran (1960’s?)..and you all know where he lived..earlier location was at 1460 pine street (garage/service) and at 214 Pine street (showroom) and in the financial district at pine and sansome (another showroom)(X had near 100 dealerships at one time)..coulda bought an allard from X brand new in the 50’s for about $3500

expert skier as well..donna lass?

As far as I can remember it has been confirmed that X was the only dealer in North America who sold the 34 type Volkswagen KG. But I don’t know if it has been confirmed how BH acquired his. In theory he could have bought it used, never having had any dealings with X’s dealership.

Mike Rodelli would know, I guess – I seem to recall him addressing the car issue specifically but I can’t remember precisely what he said.

Hartnell’s car had Oregon plates. X’s car business had dealerships in five states, including Oregon. The North West branch of the operation was run by X’s brother.

But, again, I have no idea whether BH bought his car in Oregon at one of X’s dealerships. He could have bought it used.

It should be noted that X’s operation was big – he had over 80 dealerships across five states. So, the fact that Hartnell’s car was sold exclusively by X – which sounds (and is, by all means) very interesting – should be seen in that light. It’s not like X sold every one of his cars personally – it was a major operation.

EDIT The VW KG in question was a 1956 model. So it obviously follows that BH didn’t buy it new from one of X’s dealerships. It could have changed hands dozens of times before BH ended up with it – so…the relevance is questionable, I guess. BH owned a car which was sold exclusively by X’s business – but it must have been sold years before the LB incident, so the link between BH and X isn’t very obvious and direct, one could say.

I’d have to check to be sure, but I remember reading that it wasn’t BH’s car to begin with. It was lent to him. I don’t think it would be about KQ feeling he got a bad deal for his cars. It’s possible however that if he was at LB that day and saw a car that he sold, it could have inspired him to write on the door.

thanks guys for the responses..i would be stunned in some sense if X was found proven to be Z..but he is an interesting character on the Z-scope..wonder if MikeR ever looked into X’s brother?..

Hi-

The car was owned by an ex-employee of KQ’s Portland dealership, who apparently bought cars from the dealership and resold them. A Ghia with Oregon plates would by definition have been imported by the Q family. Seeing one at LB would have brought that to mind immediately to someone who knew that KQ was the importer of VW’s to the entire NW. Imagine if someone Gyke knew had anything to do with that car. It would be a huge stake in the coffin! But with KQ, I guess you have to "put it in perspective."

The same guy spoken to by Pelissetti on the night of the Stine murder had also imported Hartnell’s car. This guy had some run of bad luck!

Mike

Hi-

The car was owned by an ex-employee of KQ’s Portland dealership, who apparently bought cars from the dealership and resold them. A Ghia with Oregon plates would by definition have been imported by the Q family. Seeing one at LB would have brought that to mind immediately to someone who knew that KQ was the importer of VW’s to the entire NW. Imagine if someone Gyke knew had anything to do with that car. It would be a huge stake in the coffin! But with KQ, I guess you have to "put it in perspective."

The same guy spoken to by Pelissetti on the night of the Stine murder had also imported Hartnell’s car. This guy had some run of bad luck!

Mike

Thanks for clarifying that, Mike.

And I agree 100% that similar circumstances would have been, let’s say, cause for some very loud reactions if the person in question had been a different suspect.

Do you know anything more about the relationship between BH and the ex-employee who owned the car? The fact that he WAS an ex-employee – and not just a random guy who happened to own a VW – certainly doesn’t make this less of an interesting circumstance.

Apologies in advance if you’ve already covered this – it’s hard to keep one thing from the other after having spent far too much time reading about this case!

Hi-

I presume that Hartnell was paying the guy off for the car over time, since the other guy was somehow in the car business and owned the car while Hartnell drove it. I don’t know if they had any "relationship" per se. Try asking Bryan–but he never gives up any information to anyone as far as I can tell! I approached him about this topic but as usual he never replied.

Mike

Hi-

I presume that Hartnell was paying the guy off for the car over time, since the other guy was somehow in the car business and owned the car while Hartnell drove it. I don’t know if they had any "relationship" per se. Try asking Bryan–but he never gives up any information to anyone as far as I can tell! I approached him about this topic but as usual he never replied.

Mike

Thanks again, Mike.

Yes, I suppose Hartnell wants to distance himself from the case – which is understandable. It’s a shame, though, as I’m pretty sure someone could still dig up something worthwhile if they asked him the right questions.

any info on C bates Vw?..it had to come thru X distributorship at some point as well…i dont remember ever seeing a photo where i could see the dealer sticker

Snooter,
I did some research 4-5 years ago that I will try and find relating to CJ Bates’ VW purchase.
I think that it was a related distributorship to Qvale’s early business partner’s ( Reynold C Johnson) wholesale operation in Southern CA.

Johnson’s father bankrolled Qvale and Reynold C Johnson’s 1946 Willy’s/Overland distributorship
and when KQ bailed to focus on BMCD he rewarded the Johnson Family with Southern California exclusivity on MG/ VW from 1952 onwards.

The real zynchronisity which Mike Rodelli or I found( cant remember) was that Brian Hartnell’s VW was registered to a guy in Oregon/ Washington ( ?- it was a while ago and all on the QT as you couldn’t say KJELL QVALE like one can now) who owned a used car lot but had worked for Riviera Motors from 1960-67 as, get this, the " Tower Controller"- in control of all things??

Riviera Motors was Kjell Qvale, Knute Qvale , Bjarne Qvale Sr, and Reynold C Johnson’s exclusive VW distributorship for North of Bay Area to Vancouver BC.

If I remember correctly, only 3-5% of a cautious American consumerrate,bought a VW in 1968 but 2-3 of 6-7 confirmed and possible Zodiac victims, drove a VW.

2/7= 29%
2/6= 33%

Comparing that to the 3-5 % of drivers( even with a Bay area Westfalia bump.. Lol) of the American public that drove a VW …the % of zodiac or zodiac suspected attacks where a victim drove a VW is suspiciously skewed ….. like 3300% skewed!

IBF