Hi-

" I havn’t asked for Qvale specifically, I’m asking for any and all names that are redacted in Document A to be released under the FOIA act if the privacy laws are no longer applicable." That way, whether it is Qvale or anyone else that is deceased, they will release whatever that persons name is/was."

Well, this will test their statement about "not doing research." They will have to look at the name and then determine if the info can be released under FOIA. Sounds like the type of work they refuse to do but we’ll see how they respond.

I wonder if the FBI had a huge file on Dennis Rader as BTK before that case was solved.

Mike

Does the FBI ever "unredact" information at the public’s request? Dunno but I think morf’s suggestion is a good one. It might seem like a simple request but there is probably a bureaucratic process involved. It would certainly be interesting for you to find out what they have on Qvale.

To my knowledge, Rader never made the FBI’s or anyone else’s radar until he was dumb enough to mail in a floppy disk. I know they attempted to match various databases of Wichita State students and other suspected connections but I don’t think anyone ever suspected him before he practically indicted himself.

The FBI will give you information about a deceased person if they do in fact have it. It happened with Rick Marshall,or rather, they wrote me stating that they had a file on him and it had been destroyed after he was cleared of the Z crime, or something along those lines

Hi-

" I havn’t asked for Qvale specifically, I’m asking for any and all names that are redacted in Document A to be released under the FOIA act if the privacy laws are no longer applicable." That way, whether it is Qvale or anyone else that is deceased, they will release whatever that persons name is/was."

Well, this will test their statement about "not doing research." They will have to look at the name and then determine if the info can be released under FOIA. Sounds like the type of work they refuse to do but we’ll see how they respond.

I wonder if the FBI had a huge file on Dennis Rader as BTK before that case was solved.

Mike

Mike I’ve already tested it with my last FOIA request and they sent me a copy of the document with a suspect name unredacted so there is no question whether they will or will not do it because they already have.

I have a special interest in Mr X, hailing from his neck of the woods. I’m not convinced at all that he was the Zodiac, be it said, but I’ve read Mike Rodelli’s posts on several forums with great interest – he strikes me as an honest researcher and I think he’s done a great job, whether or not he has actually succeeded in identifying the Zodiac.

Some time ago I messed around a little with a screenshot – and came up with this. It’s nothing revolutionary – it was mainly for my own benefit, trying to get a clearer picture of what might have transpired that night:

The red line marks Z’s route from the crime scene to 3712 Jackson St (the red dot), where Fouke observed him. The green line marks Fouke’s route, driving west on Jackson, turning south on Cherry St, where he met up with Pelissetti. The blue line marks the route Fouke assumed Z took, turning north on Maple, disappearing into the park area. Finally, the pink line marks a possible route from 3712 to 3636 Jackson St, where Mr X resided.

Now, the trouble here is the timeline, which nobody has been able to establish fully and finally. Who did what and in what order?

According to some sources Pelissetti claims that he encountered the infamous "dog walker" BEFORE he met up with Fouke, which makes no sense whatsoever to me, unless Fouke arrived remarkably late. Pelissetti arrived on the scene, met the kids, ushered them back into the house, talked to them, went back outside, checked on Stine, concluded he was dead, then called it in, reporting that a murder had taken place. In the meantime Z proceeded up Cherry St, headed east on Jackson and ran into Fouke outside No 3712. He pretended to go up the stairs to the entrance. Fouke passed him and proceeded to the crime scene.

Right, to me it seems obvious that Z could have – now – made it to 3636 Jackson with little difficulty. He could have even waited on the stairs a little while, making sure Fouke was out of sight, before proceeding. If nobody was around he could – for the sake of argument – have bolted down the street to No 3636 once Fouke was out of the way.

So, what I am saying? Well, it seems possible to me that Z could have made it to 3636, gone inside, changed his clothes, fetched his dog, and been outside at the time when Pelissetti appeared and accosted his "dog walker". Which is what Rodelli suggests he did. I’m not saying I agree – I’m not convinced at all – but I’m saying that If the timeline here is about right (Pelissetti arrives, deals with the kids, checks on Stine, calls it in, meets Fouke, then goes out searching, eventually meeting this dog walker somewhere near 3636 Jackson St) I can’t see why such a scenario shouldn’t be possible. Is it likely, all things said and done? Now, that is another question altogether.

EDIT Just to clarify something: I can’t make sense of Pelissetti’s account, as it appears here:

Went over to the cab, I would see Mr. Paul Stein, who was slumped over the front seat with his head into the well on the passenger side in the front. There was blood all over the cab, on him, and I was 99.9% certain he was dead. And it was at that point that I retook the description of the suspect. And that’s when I was told it was a white male. I couldn’t get to the radio fast enough at that point to let everybody else know. The kids had told me that whoever had done this crime left the cab, went out the door, seemed to be wiping the cab down, reaching into the cab and then ambling or walking down Cherry Street in a northerly direction, kind of towards the Presidio. I walked that way myself, I did not run because there are innumerable alcoves and parked cars, so I went down following every technique I knew so I didn’t get my head blown off. Got down to the corner of Jackson Street, had to make a choice. I was on the east side of the street, so I turned right to the east, went up in that direction. I couldn’t see anybody in either direction, nor could I see anybody scaling a wall into the Presidio. I got all the way down to the next corner which was Maple. Decision number two, which way to go? Looked to the left, toward the Presidio, saw absolutely nothing. It was much darker there. I figured the chance of finding somebody was almost nil. I turned to the right and I saw a man walking his dog. He was somewhat older than the description I had, a whole lot thinner, and he had absolutely no blood on his clothes. I asked that gentleman if he saw anybody walking in the area and he told me, "No."

All this happens, one must assume, before this:

At that point, Officer Donald Fouke, who was accompanied by what I believe was a rookie officer, Eric Zelms, at the time, pulled up very quickly in their police car, called out to me, did I see anybody? Did I know anything about where the suspect could be? I told him, "No."

Now THAT happened on Cherry St according to Fouke (and nothing else makes sense). So, Pelissetti – after having dealt with the kids, talked to them, checked out Stine, etc. – makes his way up Cherry St, cautiously (one may add, he didn’t run after the suspect, he followed procedure and made sure he wasn’t ambushed), turns east and proceeds down Jackson St (all of this on foot, naturally, still cautiously) to Maple St – and at some point further down the street he meets the dog walker*. He must then, necessarily, make his way back to Cherry St, where he meets up with Fouke.

There is something about this sequence which doesn’t make sense. Unless I’m just reading all this the wrong way – and the time which passes between a) Pelissetti’s arrival at the scene and b) Fouke’s arrival at the scene is much longer than I imagine. But if the latter is the case, where does this leave Z and his encounter with Fouke? I can’t quite get my head around this one.

* Exactly where this meeting takes place is uncertain. There are several versions of this, from Pelissetti’s own mouth. According to one version the dog walker wasn’t on the street, but in his own driveway. Pelissetti also mentions, in one version at least, that he went back to speak further with the dog walker after he accosted him the first time. But it’s unclear when this happened, i.e. how much time passed between the first and the second conversation (and for that matter from where Pelissetti went back to speak further with the man).

I don’t think Kjell was the man seen by Fouke ‘stumbling along’ with a shuffling gait down Jackson Street because Fouke described the White Male as "medium heavy build, barrel chested.’ Well Kjell was quite lean and of slim to medium build. I mean I used to think that maybe Kjell, if he was out walking a dog or just standing on his driveway, may have been doing so waiting for the Zodiac. But even if Kjell was just standing on his drive, which seems suspicious at first and could be seen as him waiting for someone he’s been expecting but it could aslo just as easily be that he’s come out onto the front drive because, as we know, Pacific Heights is an upper-middle class neighbourhood with many wealthy and well off residents residing there and he’s come out in response to hearing the police sirens and lights. Armond Pelissetti said himself

"We responded to a radio call that told us that a cab driver was being robbed and/or possibly assaulted at the corner of Cherry & Washington Street in Pacific Heights. We, fortunately, were very close and responded to that corner and were able to do so with red lights and siren at 09:55 at night and got there very quickly."

So Kjell may have been reacting to the commotion. Zodiac would certainly have heard Armond approaching I’m sure.

So Kjell may have been reacting to the commotion. Zodiac would certainly have heard Armond approaching I’m sure.

It’s certainly possible that he simply reacted to the commotion. But how much commotion was there actually at the time? The whole onslaught of dogs and fire trucks hadn’t begun when Pelissetti spoke to Kjell. Then there’s the fact that Kjell apparently has no recollection of what happened that night. He was an old man when questioned about it, of course – memories fade, etc. Still, it’s a bit odd that he can’t recall anything IF he was reacting to the commotion on the night – it seems likely that he would then have realized a few days later that it was the Zodiac who had caused the commotion, which should have made the whole thing even more memorable.

Well Hartnell did say in the immediate aftermath of his attack that he found Zodiac’s voice familiar, as if he’d heard it somewhere before but said he couldn’t think from where. He said he quickly gave up on trying to remember.

Wasn’t Kjell in several well known and distributed adverts on TV back then in which he spoke?

Again, I don’t think Kjell was Zodiac, but I cant and don’t know that so would be foolish to dismiss him as a suspect. As the character in the Film ‘Scream’ states…. "Everyone’s a suspect!!"

I’m with Welsh Chappie. There is enough there that I can’t fully dismiss him. Hartnell did say his attacker had an unfamiliar accent, or lilt. Would like to know how Qvale sounded when he spoke. There are a lot of coincidences when you think about it. Not only the Ford Zodiac thing, but the fact that a major theme —- for lack of a better word —- for Zodiac was cars. There’s the fact that Zodiac mentions "the Norse word, sla." Qvale being Norwegian and all. The fact that the diction in the letters doesn’t sound at all like your typical American. And the fact that he wrote letters to the editor before the Zodiac letters started. Add to that, pictures of him in his younger days do resemble the Stine murderer composite. Then there are these strange little tidbits, his horse’s name being Skystalker, for instance. Put it all together with him living so near the crime scene, and being out that night, with his dog, so nearby. . . I don’t know why most are so quick to drop him. I’m not that concerned about him being "too skinny" because it’s easy to make yourself appear larger than you actually are.

Can anyone tell me where exactly the police hounds led officers that night. They must have led them somewhere before the trail went cold.

One more point, being a filthy rich businessmen is not an argument againt him being a Zodiac. In fact it’s the exact opposite. I think you almost have to be sociopathic to get to that level of success on your own.

All that said, there’s a lot working against him being a good suspect. But I don’t think the fact his DNA didn’t match is one of them. I think the F.B.I. really fumbled badly on that one, and the partial DNA they have is a mishmash of different people.

I would really love to know the name of the person the eight year old identified. Any news on that? Even if it wasn’t the Zodiac, a picture of his face would be a very good indication of what Zodiac looked like.

One more point, being a filthy rich businessmen is not an argument againt him being a Zodiac. In fact it’s the exact opposite. I think you almost have to be sociopathic to get to that level of success on your own.

And being that wealthy surely comes with having connections/friends in high places.

Yeah, Ophion, I wonder about that too. I have no doubt that the extremely wealthy are exempt from the same judicial system the rest of us are subjected to.

After reading Qvale’s letter to the editor, I can’t help but notice how eerily similar it is to some of Z’s letters, especially the citizen card. Not only are a lot of the same words used, but so is the subject matter, the scapegoating of the media, specifically The Chronicle.

Where can I find Qvale’s letter to the editor? I’d like to read it. Thanks.

i dont think I will ever be able to not consider X in some way as plausible Z..the VW connection is intriguing…If i remember there dealership (or stealership) started the riviera campermobile due to problems with VW not supplying the westfalia buses unless a bunch of slow sellers were also purchase..i do think X had the smarts, the connection to riverside and mt diablo to at least be considered as Z.stine connection even exists…too bad no death bed confession…